Mod Manager messed up Oblivion?

[ladlon]

Hi, guys. I'm hoping someone can help me out here. I did a search on this topic, but was a bit overwhelmed by all the posts (and, frankly, I've been spending the whole evening reading Google searches on the topic to no success).

 

(Scroll down to the bottom of the message to the 'Late Addition' part if you don't want to read all the details)

 

Okay, so I had a clean install of Oblivion GOTY on a XP Pro machine, and it worked just fine for all the time I was playing it (months). Previous to installing O GOTY, I actually had just the regular Oblivion installed (since it came out, long ago), and that too was running just lovely.

 

Tonight, I was wanting to bring back the few mods I was using with the original install (...just a few, like Qual's Textures, Natural Environments, Martins(?) Monster Mod...), but decided this time to do it the 'safe/smart' way, and use a mod manager. That appears to have been a mistake...

 

I read up on the operation of the mod manager (...I am using the 'Oblivion Mod Manager', which I downloaded a few days ago), watched some tutorials, and then gave it a try. Seemed to be working, as far as within the manager goes... Mod files were made and activated.

 

I couldn't really tell if the mods were active, though... initially... as my latest save file had me located in the Shivering Isles, so I wasn't sure if the mods actually affected that area. I certainly wasn't seeing any obvious changes, so I wasn't sure. So, I figured I'd leave the Shivering Isles, and go to the regular map where I knew things SHOULD be affected by the mods.

 

Problem is, any time I would quick travel, or trigger an area load screen (like leaving a town, etc), I'd get a crash to desktop.

 

I've tried deactivating each of the 4-5 mods I had activated (via the mod manager), to see if one in particular was causing issues, but they all seemed to.

 

Even worse, I not only deactivated them all (and still got the crashes during area load screens), but also got them even if I deleted (via the mod manager) all the mods... in hopes that it would restore things to vanilla once again.

 

Same issue still. Previous save game loading would trigger the same CTD, but now I can load some saves (like my latest one)... but, again, quick travel or entering/leaving towns result in a CTD.

 

Currently, there are no mods installed at all (...just the Knights and Shivering Isle ones installed by GOTY). I only really want about 4-5 mods as it is... just the essential ones that are pretty common (listed previously in this post). At this point, I'd be glad to just have my vanilla game working properly again!

 

I tried Googling this topic, but found that most discussions were not relevant to my situation (...used a non-GOTY install, or were about the 360 version, or were about specific mods, etc).

 

I even found one guy who claimed he had a similar situation (save games would cause a crash after he tried using the Oblivion Mod Manager), but I'm not sure his solution will help me, as it is based on it being just one mod not working (...plus, I'm a little more than nervous about screwing around with .bsa files and such). I'm very new to .omod's and .bsa, so messing around with all that is not sounding like a smart move, as I worry that I might actually mess up any potential to restore things back to normal.

 

Can anyone advise me on what to do here? The other guy was saying something to the affect that by doing an Archive Invalidation (via the Utilities menu), and selecting ALL items (including meshes), created some bad file/reference or something. He fixed his issue (with the one mod) by creating a umod file containing the plugin .esp, and a .bsa that he made with all the contents of the 'mod archive', minus the mod he was having issues with.

 

I might have tried that, but I have NO mods either active or even installed now. Should be back to normal, if the mod manager was doing its job... but it's not. Something got messed up.

 

There seems to be a number of features in the utilities menu, but my (lack of) knowledge about what they do specifically (and the risks of doing what they do) stop me from just trying all of them out (in fear it'll destroy any 'restore point' I may still have). If there IS some feature/routine from that menu that I can (and should) try (that is safe), then please let me know!

 

Incidentally, Windows is telling me that the CTD is an exception error... That's about all I can decypher from the XP error window.

 

A re-install is always an option (...sigh...), but I'm hoping someone here might jump in and say, 'Oh, you just have to delete the [something] file. It got corrupted/modified, and just needs to be regenerated again by Oblivion...'.

 

Sorry if you've heard this issue a million times before (...which I imagine you have, in one form or another...), but I could really use your help on this, as my searches are getting me nowhere, and my knowledge on the mods/scripts, etc is virtually zero.

 

Not sure what other info to give... other than:

 

GOTY install (v 1.2.0416 straight out of the box). Win XP Pro SP3. Very clean system (re-installed windows this year)... GOTY install was working just lovely until I tried the mod manager tonight.

 

Hope you can help. Thanks in advance!

 

LATE ADDITION: If I were to hazard a guess (with my very limited knowledge on all this), I would say that I think that I caused trouble by doing an Archive Invalidation with all items checked (meshes, etc)... which, I now read, CAN cause Oblivion to crash... So, if we assume this is the case, is there anything I can do to fix my files or whatever it is that gets messed up by doing that?

Edited June 24, 2011 by ladlon

[bben46]

Quick traveling from Shivering Isles back to Cyrodiil causes several strange problems. Try exiting Shivering Isles back through the door, then use quick travel to get where you want to go. Or try starting a new game. You should always make a new save just before exiting the sewer just for troubleshooting this kind of problem. - So you don't have to repeat the tutorial every time. :thumbsup:

 

OBMM has several different kinds of archive invalidation available. I have never had any problems with the default though.

 

Installing a large texture changer like Quarls without using OBMM makes it difficult to uninstall. OBMM makes it a one click and done. Unlike a manual disable the esp, OBMM actually does uninstall everything and moves it out of the data folder. However, some mods overwrite stuff in other mods - and OBMM will remove anything with the same name that was put in after that mod and overwrote something in the original. :wallbash:

 

Here is a link to a troubleshooting procedure that will allow testing with the original (vanilla) game.

Bben's Oblivion Revert to Vanilla game

 

WIKI

http://wiki.tesnexus...to_vanilla_data

[ladlon]

Hi, bben46. Thanks for the response.

 

Previous to this issue, I was running a completely clean vanilla GOTY install, and then used OBMM to install:

 

-Qual's Texture Pack

-Natural Environments

-De[something] UI

-MMM (Monster mod)

-Unique Landscapes (Compilation version)

 

I did these one at a time, just to be safe... and it didn't trash anything until I got to the third or fourth one. At that point I started deactivating them, one at a time, to see if one of them was the culprit, until I had none of them active (and it still CTD). I then deleted (via the manager) each one. At this point, I'm running (what SHOULD be) a vanilla version of GOTY... but still have the issues. So, it SEEMS like it didn't remove them properly, or some other config got messed up by it.

 

Ya, I tried everything, as far as seeing what triggered the CTD. My latest save was in SI, and I actually DID travel to the doorway to Cyrodil (no problem). However, as I swam towards the shore from the gate island, it would eventually CTD, as did loading previous saves (which were in Cyrodil)

 

I rebooted, and tried various other things, and ended up getting it to allow me to quick travel from the gate island to a nearby town (so I made a save at that point). From there, at this point, any action that goes to an area load triggers a CTD (leaving a town, etc). Previous to that action, everything seems fine. It's just when it would be coming out of the area load screen, it would go black, and then CTD... despite everything listed above being not only deactivated, but also deleted.

 

Kind of ironic, that I used a mod manager this time to avoid this, and now it's not reverting back to vanilla! :(

 

I'm pretty sure that it is because I had all items selected when doing the Archive Invalidation, which I read (after the fact... argh) is bad, and 'can cause Oblivion to crash'. Problem is, they don't mention WHY or what to do if you have done that.

 

I will take a careful look at the link you provided me, thanks. Thing is, it seems to be more about getting mods to work, as opposed to getting Oblivion (vanilla) to work after OBMM has seemingly failed to revert it back when you remove any mods in it. I'll try what they say, though...

 

I'm trying to determine what specifically might be wrong (since it SHOULD be vanilla at this point, if the mod manager is doing its job)... and if the current install of GOTY doesn't have certain vanilla data, or if it's some config, or what.... and then determine if that can be fixed... before resorting to a full re-install of GOTY, which I want to avoid until there is no hope of repair.

 

Should I run any of the other utility items? I see there are things like un-corrupt .bsa, etc.

 

(And, ya, I did a save after the sewers, and before going into SI, etc. I just wish I would have made a backup of the vanilla data folder... I normally DID (previously, before I discovered/installed OBMM, but figured I wouldn't need to if using OBMM, as I assumed it essentially does that itself, since that's the whole point of using it)

[Striker879]

Even though your mod list is a short one, you may want to consider running BOSS and then Wrye Bash ... mod conflicts can cause problems.

[ladlon]

Hi, Striker879.

 

Actually, after doing some research (before using any mod manager), I was looking into what is available and what is considered best... and Wrye Bash came up as seemingly the best. I had downloaded it, read up on it, and tried to install it... but that's where it ended.

 

I could not figure out how to install it, and was getting frustrated, as seemingly all documentation/articles on it acted like everyone knows coding and is well-versed in the whole procedure, etc... kind of felt like me walking into a science club that was way over my head!

 

I spent the day trying to find a simple manual for it, but all I could find was 'over my head' tech discussions, plus further discussions about complex issues with it.

 

True, there is a manual included... which initally looks great... but I was confused immediately when the install instructions seemed to be referring to the Python version (as opposed to the standalone, which I was trying to use)... so everything it mentioned didn't seem to relate.

 

When I tried running it (from where I had it temporarily downloaded), it coudn't find Oblivion... Fair enough, it must need to be in the Oblivion directory or something... but I coudn't find anything telling me specifically where, nor if I could put all the loose files of Wrye Bash into a master 'Wrye Bash' folder to then put into (say) the root of Oblivion (so that I wouldn't have all these loose files in the Oblivion root).

 

After a frustrating day with it all, I gave up, and went to OBMM, which I sensed was not as good (might not deal with mesh conflicts, for example)... but at least was a bit more intuitive.

 

I can't say I've heard of BOSS. I'll have to look that one up.

 

Are you saying I should (at this point) run those two apps to try and fix the issue... or that this is what I should have done before this mess up happened?

BTW, please remember that at this point I SHOULD have the vanilla install. I have EVERYTHING not only disabled but also deleted. The issue I'm trying to fix here is not to get the mods to work (yet), but to restore my GOTY install back to vanilla (by finding out and fixing whatever OBMM seems to have messed up when it restored the install back to vanilla).

[roquefort]

Hi, Striker879.

 

Actually, after doing some research (before using any mod manager), I was looking into what is available and what is considered best... and Wrye Bash came up as seemingly the best. I had downloaded it, read up on it, and tried to install it... but that's where it ended.

 

I could not figure out how to install it, and was getting frustrated, as seemingly all documentation/articles on it acted like everyone knows coding and is well-versed in the whole procedure, etc... kind of felt like me walking into a science club that was way over my head!

 

I spent the day trying to find a simple manual for it, but all I could find was 'over my head' tech discussions, plus further discussions about complex issues with it.

 

True, there is a manual included... which initally looks great... but I was confused immediately when the install instructions seemed to be referring to the Python version (as opposed to the standalone, which I was trying to use)... so everything it mentioned didn't seem to relate.

 

When I tried running it (from where I had it temporarily downloaded), it coudn't find Oblivion... Fair enough, it must need to be in the Oblivion directory or something... but I coudn't find anything telling me specifically where, nor if I could put all the loose files of Wrye Bash into a master 'Wrye Bash' folder to then put into (say) the root of Oblivion (so that I wouldn't have all these loose files in the Oblivion root).

 

After a frustrating day with it all, I gave up, and went to OBMM, which I sensed was not as good (might not deal with mesh conflicts, for example)... but at least was a bit more intuitive.

 

I can't say I've heard of BOSS. I'll have to look that one up.

 

Are you saying I should (at this point) run those two apps to try and fix the issue... or that this is what I should have done before this mess up happened?

BTW, please remember that at this point I SHOULD have the vanilla install. I have EVERYTHING not only disabled but also deleted. The issue I'm trying to fix here is not to get the mods to work (yet), but to restore my GOTY install back to vanilla (by finding out and fixing whatever OBMM seems to have messed up when it restored the install back to vanilla).

Might be a silly question, but do you have OBSE? Many mods now require that to be installed. :thumbsup:

[ladlon]

Hello, roquefort.

 

Nope, can't say I have installed that (or even previously heard of that until now).

 

All those mods worked fine before in my non-GOTY install without it... although, certainly, things could have changed since then.

 

But, again, the issue here is not getting the mods to work (yet), it is the fact that things are not working EVEN WITHOUT them. I'm trying to restore the vanilla state, which OBMM seems to be failing to do. Getting the actual mods to work will be step 2...if I ever get there.

 

I'm hoping someone will read over the events I outlined, and then suggest what MIGHT have happened (in terms of what may have been done to some files... what those files might be, and if there is a way to revert things back... either through OBMM, or manually. Failing all that, I'll have to reinstall everything... but I want to be sure I can't just fix things first, as a reinstall would be a pain.

 

(It's a shame you can't have the install disc repair the data folder.... or can you?)

[ladlon]

UPDATE: Okay, this morning, I copied the contents of my data folder to a backup location (even though I suspected that it was 'messed up' somehow, just so I could randomly try various things without further harm. The first thing I tried was doing another Archive Invalidation, but with only Textures selected. Didn't think it would work, as I figured it wouldn't 'undo' anything it did with the other attributes from the previous attempts... but, I figured, what the heck.

 

It 'fixed' two items, and now things SEEM to be working so far. I'm now on the main map, and managed to quick travel to a few spots without incident. It's running fine so far... I'll keep testing.

 

If this is all good now (and I have vanilla again), I will back up the data file again, and maybe give OBMM another go (with my data safely backed up for restoration, should OBMM mess it up again).

 

Still, I wish I knew what happened... Mods were very basic, and used before without issue (on the non-GOTY oblivion)... and the weird irony is that I was using OBMM for the sole purpose of making mod removal clean and easy! (Cue the irony music...)

 

I'd love to get the mods working again... So I have to figure out what happened, and what I can do to avoid that all. I'll keep tinkering with this, and report back. Thanks for the replies so far...

 

 

BTW, since I'm in the neighbourhood... Another related question... With some mods, such as Unique Landscapes, I get that warning about .esp files being in subdirectories. I was just selecting the topmost folder when pointing OBMM to it during an 'Add Folder'. Do I just ignore those warnings, or do I select something else, or what? So far, it's hard to tell if ANY of the mods worked from OBMM... as I didn't see anything obvious change in the game. One of the mods (the De[something] UI one) got a C# compile(?) error, so that didn't work. I guess that is a case where that OBSE thing is required. I looked into that, and (sorry) again was confused by the install. Started off easy enough, but then the guy is going on about having to get some modified Oblivion.exe, and so on... and I couldn't help but roll my eyes... "Why can't there just be a simple install for everything?!" I thought... although I do appreciate how complex some of this stuff is. Still, for a non-coder guy like me, it gets a bit much... I just want to fireball some rats and crabs... Is that so wrong?...

Edited June 24, 2011 by ladlon

[Striker879]

You are right about Wrye Bash being a bear to install. Even the install manual isn't available until after you have installed it!! The current versions of WB require Python to run. Download both the Wrye Python 04 and Wrye Bash Installer version 292 from this link. You install Wrye Python first and then Wrye Bash. You may not have seen alt3rn1ty's Wrye Bash Pictorial Guide.

 

Better Oblivion Sorting Software (BOSS) is a utility for re-ordering your load order to avoid conflicts between mods, and is best used in conjunction with Wrye bash. BOSS will output a set of tags that WB uses when making a bashed patch (an esp that takes the mod conflicts and combines them into a single non-conflicting esp).

 

I offered WB and BOSS as a solution to not so much your current situation so much as a way to avoid the conflicts that brought you to your current situation. I often see mention of problems with some of the mods you were trying on these boards. The suggestion for OBSE (Oblivion Script Extender) was a good one, as most newer mods or versions of mods will require OBSE to function.

 

Your current situation may be best resolved by uninstalling and then re-installing Oblivion. Backup your saves from the My Documents/My Games/Oblivion folder. One of the moderators here bben46 posted this uninstall/re-install article to help get a proper a thorough fresh start. Good luck!

[ladlon]

Hello again, Striker879.

 

Thanks for all that clarification. I'm new to all this (even though I've been playing Oblivion since its release). I only recently installed GOTY (played that for a bit), and now was wanting to get some of the mods in there (...and, thus, looking into the mod managers this time around).

 

I've quickly taught myself the basics of installing mods using a manager (.umod's, .bsa's, etc), but ya, I'm still very green (and don't know all the details of what's going on under the hood... so I often can't 'think issues through logically', since I'm clueless as to what is happening in there).

 

But, it looks like I ended up fixing it. That last Archive Invalidation (with only Textures selected this time) seems to have miraculously fixed everything, and I appear to have my vanilla install back. Whew, I'm REALLY glad I didn't give up too easy, and uninstall and reinstall!

 

Okay, so I need to get the Python version of Wrye Bash, eh? Okay, I'll look into that. I went fotr the standalone, as it sounded simpler (and didn't require installing other things that might cause issues). I've grabbed OBSE (and the Oblivion.exe), and will look into getting BOSS. I just get nervous about installing and running all these things that are doing stuff that is currently over my head. I like to know what is happening, just so I can use logic/common sense to fix it, should things go south.

 

At worst, I appear to have vanilla O again! Seems stable and solid so far.

 

So, I should ditch OBMM then, and go with the others?