Mod Manager messed up Oblivion?

[bben46]

@ Drake: Having spent most of my life trying to explain technical things to non technical people, I tend to simplify things. :whistling:(sometimes oversimplify)

[ladlon]

Hey... Me again...

 

Okay, now that I have vanilla stable and good to go, I want to take another try at the mods. I'm a bit confused still, though, as now I have a number of different programs to choose, and am not sure if all are necessary or what.

 

So, I currently have OBMM installed from my last go, and originally planned on giving that another try (but with OBSE installed). I figured the thing I did wrong was selecting all the attributes (meshes, textures, etc) as I mentioned, so I wanted to try it again, but only select textures this time. As well, I'd also be installing OBSE, in case that was the issue as well.

 

But, I'm also now wondering if I should use Wrye Bash instead of OBMM.... with the assumption that they are both the same (or similar) in fuction and purpose. That's one of the things I'm not clear on.

 

From what I understand:

 

-OBMM: A mod manager that allows for clean activation/deactivation of mods, as well as clean removal. Also (I think?) allows for altering load order, and deals with mesh conflicts.

-OBSE: Supplies extended script functionality needed by some mods

-Python: Language (or something to that affect) required by Wrye Bash

-Wrye Bash: Same as OBMM (...no offense intended if that is not the case, or one is superior to the other as far as functionality).

-BOSS: A program that sorts your mod order based on a downloaded master list. (I'm assuming I need only run it once if I do not install any further mods?)

 

Based on what I am reading (not MY opinion!), Wrye Bash is considered 'superior' to OBMM... but, I have no idea. Does WB offer functionality (that I might need) which is not available with OBMM? If OBMM will do the job, I'm perfectly fine using it (as I have it currently installed, whereas I'm still figuring out the install of WB, and don't want to do so unless OBMM is lacking somehow). You've seen my mod list (and add to it the depth of field mod, if I find it), and I'm not planning on making mods or any other advanced tasks. So, I'm not sure (if OBMM is in 'lesser' than WB) if I even need that added functionality. One person posted that OBMM is 'old' (...again, I'm just saying what I read, and am posing the question here so I can get the facts straight).

 

Can I get by with OBMM and OBSE, or is there a reason I would need WB (and Python)?

 

 

Also, in this thread, I was told that WB v292 REQURES Python to work... Yet, the download page has a Standalone version which claims it is 'Non-Python'. So, I'm a bit confused. Does the 292 standalone verison require Python? Should I not use this version?

 

Sorry, just trying to sort all the info out here so I can make some proper decisions on the path I should take for my next mod install attempt.

 

Thanks...

Edited June 26, 2011 by ladlon

[Striker879]

Also, in this thread, I was told that WB v292 REQURES Python to work... Yet, the download page has a Standalone version which claims it is 'Non-Python'. So, I'm a bit confused. Does the 292 standalone verison require Python? Should I not use this version?

Being the one you're referring to I'll see if I can clear that up correctly (see my caveat about being a non-WB user).

 

The version you're referring to (file named Wrye Bash 292 -- Standalone Version) doesn't require Python to run. It does require manual installation, meaning you will need to get all the files into the correct directories (and probably create those directories). If you go that route I recommend you unpack the archive and find the readme before proceeding. The version I was recommending is the file Wrye Bash 292 -- Installer Version which does require Python to function correctly. The order to install them is Python first then Wrye Bash -- Installer Version. I base this recommendation on advice I've seen in the past from one of the resident Wrye Bash gurus, who hasn't been very active here lately (Hickory ... hope you're well and just taking the summer off). The installer version allows a more typical type installation experience (double click the installer and let it work it's magic creating the correct directories and file structure).

 

If you look at the description page for Wrye Bash here on the Nexus you'll notice a big yellow notice about CBash (the new version of the Bash utility that doesn't require Python ... written in C or C++ to remove the dependency). Follow it's advice and rename the DLL ... I've seen some of the reports of problems arising from CBash at this stage in it's development. Beyond the CBash problem version 292 is the recommended version (though some are still recommending reverting back to version 291 ... here I've been following Alt3rn1ty's findings and advice).

 

As for should you use OBMM or WB there are some signifigant differences. WB is a swiss army knife, a number of tools rolled into one package, as is OBMM. Some of the utilities available in WB aren't replicated in OBMM (the ability to import face files is one that quickly comes to mind, as well as the ability to create a 'bashed patch' ... a patch which takes conflicts and resolves them, thus allowing conflicting mods to work together). Some of the utilities that are shared between the two don't have the same depth in OBMM. An example is being able to deactivate mods ... WB allows more flexibility in keeping track of which mod installed which files and successfully reverts to the correct file versions when deactivating mods, the OBMM version of deactivating mods that share resources isn't as robust. OBMM however is much simpler to install and the learning curve isn't as steep. As I've stated before, I personally don't use Wrye bash (yet). The mods I use (primarily replacers and armor/clothing mods, plus my own home-rolled efforts) don't require bashed patches, and I don't run so many as I'm approaching the number of mods limit. When that changes I'll use Wrye bash. Your own mod list may not require WB either, but some of the names I see on your list are also some of those I see mentioned a lot on this forum from people seeking help ... they don't fall into the simple to install, simple to get working together category. With some research to find the correct install order and load order you could undoubtedly get them working together (I've also seen some pretty long and impressive mod lists from people who don't use WB and claim no difficulties).

 

Bottom line ... try whichever way suits you as your 'Plan A' and if that doesn't work out you can always switch to 'Plan B'.

[ladlon]

Thanks for the excellent explanation, Striker879. I suspected that Wrye Bash was more robust. The obvious thing would be for me to use that one (to cover all my bases), but I keep getting scared away by all the techno notes and 'special care'. Even in your last message, you warn of other people having issues, renaming files, etc... and at this point, I'm leaning towards a 'safe route'. Because I do not fully understand what is all going on under the hood, I can't think a step ahead, watching out for issues, nor think logically (in order to problem solve or remedy) things if they go bad.

 

At this point, I have OBMM still installed, and have Natural Environments, the UI mod installed (and working fine)... and a seemingly non-working install of Qarl's Textures (...which now makes sense, as I realized that what I installed appears to be just a patch, even though some of the documentation I read for it claimed it was all I needed). So, I will be downloading the 'regular' version of it, and then applying the patch (...if I'm correct in thinking that's what I should be doing). I have OBSE installed, as well as BOSS, which I ran after installing those mods.

 

I haven't installed M Monster Mod, nor Unique Landscapes, as I suspect those ones may risk causing trouble. Am I right in thinking those are the two you have been seeing a lot of conflict/issue posts about?

 

So far, so good with what I have, though.

 

I'm at a fork in the road, at this point... trying to decide if I should figure out and switch over to Wrye Bash or risk taking the safe (but potentially incompatible) road I'm currently on!

 

Assuming that OBMM can restore back to normal any conflicts/issues that I may have with the upcoming mods, I guess it's safe for me to try and see if OBMM can handle other mods. I've backed up the data folder, as well as the init file... so I figure I should be safe...kinda... sorta.

[bben46]

For a beginner, OBMM is a better choice. Granted it does not have all of the features of Wrye Bash, but it does have what you need as a beginner. However there are some mods that actually require Wrye Bash to function. Another consideration is they are compatible you can have both, as long as you remember which duplicated functions you use with which one. Wrye Bash actually has a quick link for OBMM built in.

 

Another utility that hasn't been mentioned yet is mtes4manager. http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35263

This one allows you to have multiple versions of Oblivion (and works with FO3 and New Vegas as well)

 

Start with the base Oblivion, include the latest patch, SI, OBSE but no mods. That is version #1

Now clone that and name it #2 (or whatever you want) add a base set of mods and make sure it works the way you want.

Clone that and name it #3. Use #3 for any experimental mods you want to try. If it totally bombs, you do not have to reinstall, just go back to #2 and make a new clone wipe out #3 and name your new one #3 (or #4 or whatever). You can have as many of these clones as you want - I use one for each new mod I start working on, one for the game I'm currently playing, one for testing new mods, one for checking out mods that are reported. And I think there are even a few stray older games that I stopped playing for one reason or another. Plus a base version (#1) just in case. :thumbsup:

[ladlon]

Cool... that means I can always add WB at any point if needed (without worrying about having to dismantle everything I previously set up with OBMM).

 

And, as long as the author of each mod states that WB is needed in the docs, I can always opt to just skip that mod.

 

So, all it good...

 

 

(Hehehe.... and you HAD to sneak in yet another optional app into the mix, didn't you!.... hehehe)

 

I might risk seeing if Unique Landscapes works with my setup next...

 

(Oh, but first I have to download that massive Qarl's Texture Pack main file... Thankfully, I recently dropped by opressive phone/internet provider, and went with one that actually gives me a bandwidth cap that won't have me using up my entire month's allowance with one file!)

[Striker879]

You have entered the world of many many choices ladon, but it's also the world of many many possibilities! Many of tools enable that diversity (OBSE for example) while many help you deal with that diversity (OBMM and WB for example) Go to the Browse Categories at Nexus and then look through the utilities category ... you'll see tools for most everything.

 

As to your question, the three you've installed are pretty high on the list of frequently problematic installs (although to be fair if your UI replacer is DarN UI I mostly see problems that arise when people are troubleshooting other problems, and not so much installation issues). Of the remaining on your list I would say that MMM gets more 'service requests' than UL, but there are a lot of compatibility patches available for UL, so keep up to speed on what patches may be required when adding mods down the road (that's the more common problems that arise there ... adding a mod that requires a patch but not patching and having trouble). Good luck on your adventure!

[ladlon]

Ya, all that is good... but each step into the unknown is also a risk of corrupting (in one form or another) your precious house of cards called 'modded Oblivion'!

 

I'm not surprised MMM is high on the list of 'most asked about in the tech forum'. I was totally impressed and blown away by the sheer number of unique creature models in that! It seemed like more than vanilla Oblivion! (...and, on a similar note, I was kind of disappointed how FEW there are in vanilla Fallout3!).

 

All the mods I was using before (on my non-GOTY install) worked seemingly fine. I had a few rare floating rocks/trees or household objects... but nothing apparently terrible.

 

Actually, yesterday (playing the GOTY version with the first few mods installed now), I had one of those cat guys swimming DEEP underwater as I was peeking underwater from the beach. He was so tiny, I thought it was a fish! I swam down to him, and had a conversation.

 

I don't think that was all supposed to happen! But, it was a good way to break up the day... ;)

[Striker879]

Are you sure you didn't meet Tooth-in-the-Sea? If it was near Bravil keep him in mind for later in the game (if you use the avails of trainers that is).

[ladlon]

Ya, maybe that was a Quest character that I just happened to run into. I didn't meet that character in my previous game sessions (non-GOTY), so I couldn't say.

 

Pretty surreal, seeing him down there, thinking it was a fish... then swimming down and seeing it's a person, just kind of hanging out at the bottom. So, the logical thing to do was say hi and have a chat.

 

 

LATE ADDITION: Just checked that link... Ya, that must be him! Cool. I'll chat with him again.

Edited June 26, 2011 by ladlon