Retitle "pipe" weapons to "low-tech" so they don't sound so stupid...

[seekingthesun]

There are plenty of pipes that can easily handle the pressures of cartridges. The PSI is high, but not that high.

[dainsgames]

There are plenty of pipes that can easily handle the pressures of cartridges. The PSI is high, but not that high.

 

Whuuuut? Yes, the PSI is THAT high. In fact, it's way higher than "that high". A common utility pipe is rated for a FEW HUNDRED PSI tops. The highest rating for steel piping I found was 1500 PSI. 20,000 PSI is a LOW pressure cartridge. A high-power rifle round like the .308 goes 60,000 PSI.

 

You think the impact from a bullet makes things explode, try the explosion that propels it.

 

Here's a link to an extract of chamber pressures from an official firearms manufacturer's organization - http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm.

[dainsgames]

Maybe, but I'd be surprised if the pipe weapons from Fallout 1 and 2 weren't directly intended to be based off of the improvised guns taught by the US Army. They're supposed to be improvised, POS weapons that can blow up if you so much as sneeze at them; removing that by making them non-improvised weapons is both silly, inconsistent with the lore, and inconsistent with their intended place in the Wasteland.

 

What's silly, inconsistent with the lore of improvised weapons, and out of place in the wasteland are PIPE WEAPONS when you can easily just say "hey those weapon workbenches were used to make smoothbore barrels and chambers out of steel rod blanks. Like the ones made at Saugus Ironworks". Those would actually be weapons improvised with materials to hand and made with available tools, versus weapons manufactured in a factory environment.

 

And if you can find an example of said pipe guns blowing up in Fallout 4, please show me. Instead, they're arguably far better than factory-made weapons throughout most of the game.

[tartarsauce2]

maybe you could put an object enchant on pipeguns that gives some sort of % chance for there to be an explosion from the gun itself that hurts you for a shot occasionally
it might not be toooooootally immersive, like breaking the gun but it's quick and dirty, and does present a genuine drawback

pipe weapons are fine, .357 and .38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydqNzQkZdbc
here he's loading shotgunshells in both ends and slamfiring a pipe shotgun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwCP2Og__Go
bolt action 12 gauge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ4WInomZdg
all are "pipe guns"

Edited May 7, 2016 by tartarsauce2

[seekingthesun]

You want some sup3r l33t pr0 haxor skillz?!?!?
Here's some amazing computer code

Make a magical effect that spawns an explosive projectile, and adds a health reduction
Then make this the condition

Greaterthanorequalto
.9800000
GetRandomPercent
Apply Perk
{{{custom perk}}

Edited May 7, 2016 by seekingthesun

[dainsgames]

maybe you could put an object enchant on pipeguns that gives some sort of % chance for there to be an explosion from the gun itself that hurts you for a shot occasionally

it might not be toooooootally immersive, like breaking the gun but it's quick and dirty, and does present a genuine drawback

 

pipe weapons are fine, .357 and .38

 

here he's loading shotgunshells in both ends and slamfiring a pipe shotgun

 

bolt action 12 gauge

 

all are "pipe guns"

 

<dainsgames edit: removed the video links for space reasons, pls see his original post)

 

Pipe weapons are fine? Nnnnno. I know you're not trying to be confrontational, but there's so many things wrong with those Youtube videos I have to respond with a rebuttal.

 

One thing is that in his "repeater" videos, he's actually using a real shotgun barrel scavenged from a real shotgun for obvious reasons (it won't blow the hell up in his face).

 

Now in other homebuilt shotguns, he IS using an actual pipe, but you know what? For a shotgun, I can actually work with that. Shotgun chamber pressures are actually HALF those of a low-pressure pistol round. http://randywakeman.com/shotgun_pressures.htm. And shotgun ammunition (except for slugs) is "loose" ammo which needs a wad behind it to keep the pressure from blowing past. A pipe isn't bored to perfection for the round, and so the pressure DOES blow past the wad, substantially reducing the pressure the pipe has to contain.

 

So you might be surprised to hear I'm actually GOOD with shotgun pipe weapons. I know what's going on with them and why they are *almost* a feasible thing. Add some video game suspension of disbelief, and I'm ok wiith them being in the game.

 

Well, except that pipe shotguns are NOT in the game. Nope nooo, couldn't put in the thing that actually could almost work and would absolutely fill the role of improvised defensive or intimidation weapon. That's Bethesda for you - blow right past something that could be believed at a stretch and instead ham-fist some completely ridiculous thing into your face. Ugggh.

 

 

 

Let's move on to pistols and rifles. The Youtube videos you posted show cobbled-together junk that he retreats away from for his own safety when firing. The .38/.357 video you posted? He's not actually firing the real bullets, he's just firing empty cases with a primer as a test. Fun fact - the soft brass of the cartridge is enough to contain that all by itself, given that the mouth of the case is completely open. So sorry, no valid test there.

 

And the .50 caliber he demonstrates? That blew itself up on first firing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfOC53Oo5yY.

 

Long story short, all of the guns this Youderper are making are so unusable that they can't possibly be a basis for the pipe weapons in the game. In F04, pipe weapons are actual serviceable replacements for real guns and can be used all the way up in the game.

 

And that's the problem. a) that's bullsh8, and b) why would you be so insistent that "pipe guns" be a thing? You CAN bore rod blanks to serve as chambers and smoothbore barrels, and the workstations clearly show machinist equipment.

 

Also, why would Bethesda NOT just go with the obvious progression? Homemade pipe shotguns to shop-made pistol-caliber pistols/ rifles to real antique / remanufactured guns to newly produced weapons to energy weapons. Is that too hard for you Bethesda? or too easy?

But I can't rework and rebalance all of the gunzors in the game, mainly because so many other people already have, and Bethesda's lame-@ss database system makes everything conflict with everything else. So it would be an immense effort to make a real fix due to all of the compatibility patching needed.

But it would be possible to change the flavor enough so this particular unpolished piece of turd doesn't stick so much in people's throats, i think. Change pipe to shop-made, add smoothbore to the barrel descriptions, remove the high-power calibers, and possibly remove the automatic receivers as well (they make pipe guns very powerful) That should put shop-made weapons right where they belong in the progression order. I think.

Hence this mod request.

 

Edit: As a reward for reading my WALL OF TEXT, here's a link to the same Youtuber specifically trying out improvised barrels - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80Bl9mJnkz8

 

Here's the main takeaway - unless you have a chamber and barrel that effectively contain the pressure behind the bullet, the bullet will not go fast. The cartridge will rupture or deform, the gas will blow past the bullet, and the powder might not even fully burn before it's blown out of the barrel.

 

That means guns which do not have real chambers and barrels are very bad guns. I would recommend a crossbow as a higher-power, higher-accuracy replacement.