Mod Picker: The Fearsome Juggernaut

[roro330]

 

 

As for metacritic, it's not only companies misusing the site, but also users with some agenda or another, completely separate from the quality of what they're reviewing.

Earlier I would have said, "Surely the stakes on a mod review site are so low that the incidences of gaming the stats would be rare enough for a few moderators to keep up with," but now I see what a serious business mods are.

 

It's precisely because mods are not a serious business I am against this system. See my post above about accountability.

 

 

what if I, a lowly mod user, just wants a group of mods that works well together? right now I have to search for mods and hope that there is no conflicts, but with Mod Picker, there will be existing mod lists that only have a few conflicts.

 

Or is mod making simply a hobby for the people making the mods, and a job for the people trying to use them?

Edited April 25, 2016 by roro330

[sunshinenbrick]

 

with Mod Picker, there will be existing mod lists that only have a few conflicts.

 

How this happens though is where the problem lies. Who is going to do that part of the job... the hardest part in many cases (combining the compatibility between lists quickly turns the whole think into a Rubik's cube). And even if they can then how exactly, and does doing it violate any Nexus permissions, third party ToS, or even the original game/SDK EULA?

 

If Zenimax want to get onto consoles then they are probably investing in developing a similar platform themselves already... How might that affect things?

 

Making compatible load lists for a few mods is a small cog in an otherwise much larger machine. Its a significant part of what really unlocks what modding and mods are all about - changing things. But this is all taking place in between the professional 'ecosystems' that surround some very large and powerful private companies.

 

I'm sorry to have to expand this subject into a macro-economic perspective but one really has to examine the situation thus so as to be able to understand all the nuances, problems, and hopefully solutions.

[RGMage2]

I have a question for the mod picker creators. Do you still plan to have direct download links to mods? That should be an obvious no-no. Linking to the mod frontpage will give traffic to the nexus, and display relevant information to the mod user.

 

 

 

It was literally never even a goal. It has always intended to direct end users to the mod download pages on other sites, like the nexus.

 

I've talked with Dark0ne to get an understanding of what would be acceptable in terms of bandwidth usage. We're not planning on downloading mods from the Nexus or hosting any mod files on our site at all.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/40lp2b/skyrim_mod_picker_progress_report_1/

 

 

 

 

Still?!?! This has NEVER been something they were going to do.. They've even talked about WHY it wasn't good...

 

I don't get how people expect to be able to criticize and debate on a basis of hear-say, instead of education themselves about a topic before going full rant...

 

 

Your point is automatically moot, if you haven't tried (at least a little) to figure out what you are discussing.

 

@nhlaxd and @JUNKdeLUXE, that's not entirely true. Apparently the original plan was to batch download from within Mod Picker, allowing the user to bypass having to deal with both Nexus and the mod author. From an implementation point of view I can understand why they would want to do that, fully automating the process for the end user. That doesn't necessarily paint these guys as evil or anything, just maybe a little bit Naive for thinking that Nexus would have been OK with that.

 

 

I talked with Robin and we came to an agreement on scraping mod data from the Nexus. Batch mod downloading is a no-go though, but that’s alright. We’ll still have an automated mod list setup utility, but it won’t download the mods for you. Instead, it will present a list of the mods with links and instruct you to download the mods yourself.

 

We also secured an investment to cover initial costs. This investment comes at a 5% equity share in the company, which is very reasonable. This investment is critical for our success because it allows us to pay for initial legal and server costs without having to plunge into our (limited) personal funds.

 

We will be moving forward with establishing a corporate entity in the next few weeks. We are very excited to be working with /u/videogameattorney to get our various legal matters in order.

The quote is from here https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/4e7jg7/skyrim_mod_picker_progress_report_4/

[nhlaxd]

The initial plan, and current plan have both required the end user to download the mods themselves. So perhaps I was misleading, but not wrong. It was a brainstormed idea for their feature set that they wanted to run by Dark0ne. Not something they ever added as a feature to be done. It's a semantic difference though, I will give you that.

[JUNKdeLUXE]

 

@nhlaxd and @JUNKdeLUXE, that's not entirely true. Apparently the original plan was to batch download from within Mod Picker, allowing the user to bypass having to deal with both Nexus and the mod author. From an implementation point of view I can understand why they would want to do that, fully automating the process for the end user. That doesn't necessarily paint these guys as evil or anything, just maybe a little bit Naive for thinking that Nexus would have been OK with that.

 

I talked with Robin and we came to an agreement on scraping mod data from the Nexus. Batch mod downloading is a no-go though, but that’s alright. We’ll still have an automated mod list setup utility, but it won’t download the mods for you. Instead, it will present a list of the mods with links and instruct you to download the mods yourself.

 

We also secured an investment to cover initial costs. This investment comes at a 5% equity share in the company, which is very reasonable. This investment is critical for our success because it allows us to pay for initial legal and server costs without having to plunge into our (limited) personal funds.

 

We will be moving forward with establishing a corporate entity in the next few weeks. We are very excited to be working with /u/videogameattorney to get our various legal matters in order.

The quote is from here https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/4e7jg7/skyrim_mod_picker_progress_report_4/

 

 

Seems the joke is on me then :S When I read about the NXM link I had understood it to be a collection of links to the modpages and not for it to directly interact with Mod Organizer (or other)... Now that I'm re-reading it, I can see that might not be correct... My bad.

Edited April 25, 2016 by JUNKdeLUXE

[TerrorFox1234]

Hi everyone,

We have written two documents responding to legal and ethical concerns, as well as our opt-out policy.

Regarding Opt-Out

Legal Status and Concerns

In regards to speculation about our moderation abilities and the idea that Mod Picker promotes anti-author behavior:

- Our terms of service and community guidelines will expressly forbid users from any outward or obvious anti-author behavior.
- Our moderation team will enforce strict guidelines which will not allow such behavior.
- Speculation about our ability to achieve these goals serves no purpose. You can make statements supported by evidence about our ability to create a community to your liking once our platform has launched.


Sincerely,
The Mod Picker Team

[mlee3141]

That's the last straw. All of my mods have now been hidden in protest against Mod Picker, and I urge all those who can see the truth to do the same.

[lofgren]

 

with Mod Picker, there will be existing mod lists that only have a few conflicts.

How this happens though is where the problem lies. Who is going to do that part of the job... the hardest part in many cases (combining the compatibility between lists quickly turns the whole think into a Rubik's cube). And even if they can then how exactly, and does doing it violate any Nexus permissions, third party ToS, or even the original game/SDK EULA?

 

Oh, so how THIS happens is where the problem lies? Funny how nobody brought it up until page freakin' 17. Users will generate and share the mod lists with notes about compatibility. These notes must be voted on in order to be considered reliable. If a note that has been voted reliable turns out to be factually incorrect, the Mod Picker team will remove it. None of this violates any ToS, permission, or EULA. I'm not even sure that "You will never create and share a list online that mentions the name of this mod" is something that would be legally enforceable in a EULA. So now all of your questions have been answered and this, the crux of the problem (which nobody bothered to mention until now), can be put to rest.

 

If Zenimax want to get onto consoles then they are probably investing in developing a similar platform themselves already... How might that affect things?

How might that change… what exactly? How would a site competing with Mod Picker change, well, anything? What "things" are you concerned about being affected, and how could they potentially be in affected? Of course you don't mention any of these actual concerns. Seriously your posts are pretty much the epitome of JAQing.

 

Making compatible load lists for a few mods is a small cog in an otherwise much larger machine. Its a significant part of what really unlocks what modding and mods are all about - changing things. But this is all taking place in between the professional 'ecosystems' that surround some very large and powerful private companies.

 

I'm sorry to have to expand this subject into a macro-economic perspective but one really has to examine the situation thus so as to be able to understand all the nuances, problems, and hopefully solutions.

I would be interested to hear you expand this subject into a macroeconomic perspective. What macroeconomic concerns do you have regarding this project? I'm sure they will be equally well-thought out and well-researched as your previous ones.

[sunshinenbrick]

 

 

with Mod Picker, there will be existing mod lists that only have a few conflicts.

How this happens though is where the problem lies. Who is going to do that part of the job... the hardest part in many cases (combining the compatibility between lists quickly turns the whole think into a Rubik's cube). And even if they can then how exactly, and does doing it violate any Nexus permissions, third party ToS, or even the original game/SDK EULA?

 

Oh, so how THIS happens is where the problem lies? Funny how nobody brought it up until page freakin' 17. Users will generate and share the mod lists with notes about compatibility. These notes must be voted on in order to be considered reliable. If a note that has been voted reliable turns out to be factually incorrect, the Mod Picker team will remove it. None of this violates any ToS, permission, or EULA. I'm not even sure that "You will never create and share a list online that mentions the name of this mod" is something that would be legally enforceable in a EULA. So now all of your questions have been answered and this, the crux of the problem (which nobody bothered to mention until now), can be put to rest.

 

If Zenimax want to get onto consoles then they are probably investing in developing a similar platform themselves already... How might that affect things?

How might that change… what exactly? How would a site competing with Mod Picker change, well, anything? What "things" are you concerned about being affected, and how could they potentially be in affected? Of course you don't mention any of these actual concerns. Seriously your posts are pretty much the epitome of JAQing.

 

Making compatible load lists for a few mods is a small cog in an otherwise much larger machine. Its a significant part of what really unlocks what modding and mods are all about - changing things. But this is all taking place in between the professional 'ecosystems' that surround some very large and powerful private companies.

 

I'm sorry to have to expand this subject into a macro-economic perspective but one really has to examine the situation thus so as to be able to understand all the nuances, problems, and hopefully solutions.

I would be interested to hear you expand this subject into a macroeconomic perspective. What macroeconomic concerns do you have regarding this project? I'm sure they will be equally well-thought out and well-researched as your previous ones.

 

 

The same users who cannot be 'bothered' to read tutorials and wikis?? How are these incompatibilities solved? By the user? Does that not defeat the 'purpose' and take things right back to where they are now?

 

The original suggestion (and a few subsequent) was to automate and create algorithms for the process. Compiling the mods into such lists and locking them through 'compatibility patches' is where the legailty of it lies regarding the game/SDK EULA. In a sense creating a platform/client that inserts itself between the gamer and the game.

 

Before you ask for citation then I shall refer that you to re-read this thread and the ones I have already linked. Your refusal to do so is your choice and I will thus assume it is therefore, simple willful neglect. I cannot help you with that.

 

It is unfortunate that you appear unable (or maybe unwilling) to grasp some relatively simple concepts around how these things fit together. This may likewise help in giving reason as to why you may approve so vehemently of such a scheme as the one in question.

 

I have grown somewhat exhausted of trying to explain the same things to you over and over again while making very little progress. So perhaps because of this, the fact I have already stated the pointlessness of our discussions, coupled with the quoted comment not being directed at you anyway, I would say to take this reply as a issue of courtesy and that you find another person to dicuss this with.

 

 

Kindest Regards,

 

Sunshine

[RoyBatterian]

This is a public thread, and I am choosing to post in it as a mod author.

 

I am hiding all my work in protest of this. I do not want to do this as it only hurts the users, but I cannot stand for the disregard of our rights as authors to freely and graciously share our work with the public to enjoy.

 

Mod Picker and it's staff are directly responsible for putting myself and other authors in this position. Please direct all your concerns to them.

 

Regards,

 

-RB