CowGuru Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Mod Picker would destroy it all in the storm to come. It's impossible to take you seriously when you write like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofgren Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 (edited) I think people on the user side may not be aware of how the 'mod picker' was sold to authors. It was practically said that there would be a sort of 'mod builder', or PCPartPicker or something, that didn't specify what input would be required from the 'user' other than selecting what they want. In all purpose it sound like a plug'n'play mod platform, where the elimination of popular mods would be determined by how much authors were willing to slave away and provide for 'user' needs/wants. What the hell do paid mods have to do with this conversation? If you can link to this original press release, then it might help illuminate some of the mod authors' concerns if the original release was truly so misleading. Personally I never saw anything like that. But surely if there were concerns about authors being expected to "slave away and provide for 'user' needs/wants" in order to get their mod "eliminated" (honestly I have no idea what this sentence even means), then those concerns have been assuaged by now seeing as we are on page 9 and this is the first time anybody has even mentioned that idea. Edited April 25, 2016 by lofgren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshinenbrick Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 I think people on the user side may not be aware of how the 'mod picker' was sold to authors. It was practically said that there would be a sort of 'mod builder', or PCPartPicker or something, that didn't specify what input would be required from the 'user' other than selecting what they want. In all purpose it sound like a plug'n'play mod platform, where the elimination of popular mods would be determined by how much authors were willing to slave away and provide for 'user' needs/wants. Being a 'user' myself (among lecturer, designer, boyfriend, son etc...), turned author, I would have loved an initiative to create a 'super-database', if you will, of compiled wikis, tutorials, official bug releases etc... etc... and have been one of the people to suggest this idea in recent discussions. But that is NOT what the initial press release (to Nexus modders) was pitching. Not at all. I agree that this is the very place where 'users' can help other 'users' by asking them questions and sharing wikis, links, and videos that show you how to do something. There is as someone else said a huge amount of this stuff out there if you take the time to look. How else do people think the 'authors' of today got there themselves? There is no other way than to learn things the way everybody else does. To make it any 'easier' is to actually do a disservice and to take 'user's for chumps. Now this DOES bring into question as to why 'users' are feeling that they cannot get this information or that it is wrong. Well in some respects I partly blame the automation of the process already. People are not learning manual mod building/installing and the more fundamental practices are being eroded. Working in schools I see the same thing and technology in general has this effect. Since I started having a spell checker my spelling has deteriorated BUT I take the time to make the correction and computers actually empower these skills. Yet, things are getting so bad in the pursuit of profit that people are getting into the habit of not doing this and relying too much on technology. The other reason, and perhaps 'authors' have to take some awareness of this, and that is paid mods. The tidal wave around this had been brewing pretty much from the release of Skyrim. People were getting eager for recognition for their work after Beth kept there cards forever close to their chest. Then they clustered everyone and caused absolute chaos by not communicating and discussing through respectful and open debate. Instead they went through a third party and then took a massive dump on their avid fan base. The point I am making here is that there are many very valid reasons why things have become tenuous and people's motives have been questioned. I can see both sides of this but essentially we must try to see our similarities as well as our differences, as at the end of the day we mostly all want the same thing... more mods, more people making mods and the opportunity to increase our skills and portfolio. Oh, and to hopefully scratch some sort of living when Zenimax finally get there $hit together :rolleyes: Personally however, I am not convinced paid mods (or mod picker) will necessarily solve any of the issues we have. What the hell do paid mods have to do with this conversation? If you can link to this original press release, then it might help illuminate some of the mod authors' concerns if the original release was truly so misleading. Personally I never saw anything like that. But surely if there were concerns about authors being expected to "slave away and provide for 'user' needs/wants" in order to get their mod "eliminated" (honestly I have no idea what this sentence even means), then those concerns have been assuaged by now seeing as we are on page 9 and this is the first time anybody has even mentioned that idea. Paid mods meant that people suddenly had a lot more to lose. It also meant that it turned what was largely a hobby for most people into a business and all the things that come with it. Without even giving anyboady a say in what the terms would be. A long and thorough discussion from both sides of this debate can be found here (amongst probably a thousand others...). Have you read through all the 50+ pages of it here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofgren Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 No, I did not and I sure as hell do not intend to. It would be helpful if somebody could bullet point the concerns of mod authors because I have yet to see one that is actually valid. The whole paid modding thing happened months ago as far as I know and even if there were still paid mods on Steam I don't understand how that would relate to this discussion in any way. How much people have to lose and whether they treat modding as a hobby or a business simply isn't relevant to whether or not Mod Picker could be a useful resource for mod users, at least as far as I can see. And it's all utterly moot in any event because paid mods ended up not happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshinenbrick Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 No, I did not and I sure as hell do not intend to. It would be helpful if somebody could bullet point the concerns of mod authors because I have yet to see one that is actually valid. The whole paid modding thing happened months ago as far as I know and even if there were still paid mods on Steam I don't understand how that would relate to this discussion in any way. How much people have to lose and whether they treat modding as a hobby or a business simply isn't relevant to whether or not Mod Picker could be a useful resource for mod users, at least as far as I can see. And it's all utterly moot in any event because paid mods ended up not happening. I literally just pointed them out to you a couple of posts ago. If you are unwilling to read things so as to see it for yourself, then I'm afraid that is part of the problem... Paid mods is more than likely returning, which is yet another reason why modders are watching Bethesda carefully to see what they do. Mod Picker could potentially increase the work load for authors who are already overworked, exhausted and most likely not swimming in cash either. Again a lot of this is dicussed in the threads I linked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlee3141 Posted April 25, 2016 Author Share Posted April 25, 2016 Mod Picker would destroy it all in the storm to come. It's impossible to take you seriously when you write like this It's hard to take you seriously when you have nothing useful to add to this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofgren Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 No, I did not and I sure as hell do not intend to. It would be helpful if somebody could bullet point the concerns of mod authors because I have yet to see one that is actually valid. The whole paid modding thing happened months ago as far as I know and even if there were still paid mods on Steam I don't understand how that would relate to this discussion in any way. How much people have to lose and whether they treat modding as a hobby or a business simply isn't relevant to whether or not Mod Picker could be a useful resource for mod users, at least as far as I can see. And it's all utterly moot in any event because paid mods ended up not happening. I just pointed them out to you a couple of posts ago. If you are unwilling to read the stuff so as to see things for yourself, then I'm afraid that is part of the problem... Paid mods is more than likely returning, which is yet another reason why modders are watching Bethesda carefully to see what they do. Mod Picker could potentially increase the work load for authors who are already overworked, exhausted and most likely not swimming in cash either. Again a lot of this is dicussed in the threads I linked. Sorry, I don't see where you bullet pointed the mod authors concerns. I saw a long post from you talking about paid modding, some original press release that was not cited, and wailing about how kids these days don't know how to properly replace the transmission on a '63 Chevy so the whole world is going to hell in a handbasket. I did not see one valid concern that was on-topic. I do not understand how Mod Picker increases the workload of modders if paid mods return. Please at least connect these dots for me. Though I again I will reiterate that this seems like such a minor concern it's safe to say that Mod Picker is mostly approved of by mod authors, because being concerned that the site might increase your workload in the event of paid mods hypothetically returning is even less of serious concern than worrying that the percentage of users who upvote a comment in order for it to become a permanent part of the page might need to be tweaked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofgren Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Mod Picker would destroy it all in the storm to come. It's impossible to take you seriously when you write like this It's hard to take you seriously when you have nothing useful to add to this discussion. I am starting to wonder if anybody has anything useful to add to this discussion. I have yet to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlee3141 Posted April 25, 2016 Author Share Posted April 25, 2016 No, I did not and I sure as hell do not intend to. It would be helpful if somebody could bullet point the concerns of mod authors because I have yet to see one that is actually valid. The whole paid modding thing happened months ago as far as I know and even if there were still paid mods on Steam I don't understand how that would relate to this discussion in any way. How much people have to lose and whether they treat modding as a hobby or a business simply isn't relevant to whether or not Mod Picker could be a useful resource for mod users, at least as far as I can see. And it's all utterly moot in any event because paid mods ended up not happening. I just pointed them out to you a couple of posts ago. If you are unwilling to read the stuff so as to see things for yourself, then I'm afraid that is part of the problem... Paid mods is more than likely returning, which is yet another reason why modders are watching Bethesda carefully to see what they do. Mod Picker could potentially increase the work load for authors who are already overworked, exhausted and most likely not swimming in cash either. Again a lot of this is dicussed in the threads I linked. Sorry, I don't see where you bullet pointed the mod authors concerns. I saw a long post from you talking about paid modding, some original press release that was not cited, and wailing about how kids these days don't know how to properly replace the transmission on a '63 Chevy so the whole world is going to hell in a handbasket. I did not see one valid concern that was on-topic. I do not understand how Mod Picker increases the workload of modders if paid mods return. Please at least connect these dots for me. Though I again I will reiterate that this seems like such a minor concern it's safe to say that Mod Picker is mostly approved of by mod authors, because being concerned that the site might increase your workload in the event of paid mods hypothetically returning is even less of serious concern than worrying that the percentage of users who upvote a comment in order for it to become a permanent part of the page might need to be tweaked. "Mostly approved by mod authors?" Are we not seeing the same thread here, or did you somehow manage to miss the 55 page tempest I saw when I clicked on that link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofgren Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 (edited) "Mostly approved by mod authors?" Are we not seeing the same thread here, or did you somehow manage to miss the 55 page tempest I saw when I clicked on that link? As I said I am not about to read that. Here are the only concerns that I have seen brought up in this thread:The percentage of people with good reputations required to upvote a comment on a mod in order for that comment to become a permanent aspect of the mod's page might be too high or too low.Should paid modding return, Mod Picker may increase the workload of mod authors through some unknown alchemy.People might report bugs to Mod Picker so something something something."Popular mod authors" may be forced to "slave away" implementing user requests in order to get their mod "eliminated." (I still have no idea what this even means.) These are all extremely minor concerns. We are way out in the weeds here, talking about minor details of the implementation of individual subsystems. If this is really all you have to worry about then it seems like you have very little to worry about indeed. IF there is some serious, overriding concern about Mod Picker, it has not been mentioned on this thread yet and, for the third time, I would appreciate it if somebody would please tell me. The only reference to more serious concerns was somebody saying ominously that there were discussions going on over features that we don't even know about. Well that's pretty shady but if you're not going to tell me what those features are and what that discussion is about I see no reason to take it seriously. Edited April 25, 2016 by lofgren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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