Realism mod

[avianmosquito]

It appears this may actually be very worth while to keep up to date with. Be sure to let us know how far you get. And the fact that this was well thought out from the beginning and that you are willing to do at least some of it yourself (unlike some other people who request mods) that's a definite plus. You earned kudos for thinking a genius idea, making it well planned out, and for putting forth some effort into it.

 

To be totally honest, I really want to do all of the work myself, but unfortunately for me I need help.

[adman85]

Hah that sounds really damn cool, I don't know how you'd manage it but if I could start targeting the eyes and spleen of every random raider I probably would use vats more often, like the old FO tactics style targeted shots (oh nostalgia). But VATS still need to be scaled down before i'd use it.. I see 95% way too often.

 

I'm also running a mod that allows skill levels to 250 (i think?) and gives benefits when they reach these levels, do you think you could incorporate the effect of skills at these kind of levels? It may seem a bit much, but with a double modifier on tag skills and a level cap of 100 it really helps to spread things out (i reduced skill points per level drastically to compensate) and i like the idea of dragging out your skills that much more, to make reaching "perfection" in a skill that much harder. But that is just a personal opinion.

 

And if we're gonna talk about realism some more here;

 

I notice everyone has the same DT for their head as they do for their body (as opposed to their helmet giving the head its own DT) I always thought that could use a fix, it would also put emphasis on headshots in certain situations (but it may be too advantageous as noone in the vanilla wasteland seemed concerned about their face, something else I felt had to change, more npc helmets)

 

It would also seem likely that some types of ammunition or possibly lasers would penetrate and pass through a victim, and possibly into others.

 

I hope you make grenades and explosives vastly more effective at crippling limbs and causing knockdowns even through armors (though there are already mods for this)

 

I also tried (and failed) to find a way to change the bleedthrough damage from armors to fatigue damage to suggest more of a stunning impact, though you've probably already compensated somehow.

 

If there's a way to implement AP cost for jumping, crouching (the motion not while actually sneaking) and reloading, personally I think it would go great with project nevadas bullet time and sprint options.

 

Thats all i can think of right now but, I assume you have seen EVE and some of its awesome effects (the blood spurting bullet holes that they have promised seem to just sit so nicely here)

 

And i'm just stabbing in the dark here, I'll quiet down soon :P

Edited July 8, 2011 by adman85

[avianmosquito]

Hah that sounds really damn cool, I don't know how you'd manage it but if I could start targeting the eyes and spleen of every random raider I probably would use vats more often, like the old FO tactics style targeted shots (oh nostalgia). But VATS still need to be scaled down before i'd use it.. I see 95% way too often.

 

I'm also running a mod that allows skill levels to 250 (i think?) and gives benefits when they reach these levels, do you think you could incorporate the effect of skills at these kind of levels? It may seem a bit much, but with a double modifier on tag skills and a level cap of 100 it really helps to spread things out (i reduced skill points per level drastically to compensate) and i like the idea of dragging out your skills that much more, to make reaching "perfection" in a skill that much harder. But that is just a personal opinion.

 

And if we're gonna talk about realism some more here;

 

I notice everyone has the same DT for their head as they do for their body (as opposed to their helmet giving the head its own DT) I always thought that could use a fix, it would also put emphasis on headshots in certain situations (but it may be too advantageous as noone in the vanilla wasteland seemed concerned about their face, something else I felt had to change, more npc helmets)

 

It would also seem likely that some types of ammunition or possibly lasers would penetrate and pass through a victim, and possibly into others.

 

I hope you make grenades and explosives vastly more effective at crippling limbs and causing knockdowns even through armors (though there are already mods for this)

 

Thats all i can think of right now but, I assume you have seen EVE and some of its awesome effects (the blood spurting bullet holes that they have promised seem to just sit so nicely here)

 

Well, I was planning on armour only affecting the body and helmets only affecting the head, but they would have the same DR/DT/EDR/EDT/LB. My armour system is complicated. I'll explain it.

 

As far as grenades, they do both incisive and concussive damage.

 

Incisive damage ignores DR and is only affected by DT, while concussive damage ignores armour entirely. Other damage types includes energy damage, which is immune to DR and DT, so it has EDR and EDT instead, and puncture damage, which ignores DT and is only affected by DR. Finally, there is blunt, which is the same as concussive but is seperate for the purpose of perks.

 

Armour has five standard effects:

 

Damage resistance:

DR reduces damage by a percentage, and only affects puncturing weapons. (All others ignore it.) It is frequently above 100%, (the highest is 500%) and most puncture weapons are set to multiply it by a float. For instance, buckshot multiplies it by 5, so any armour granting 20% or more makes you immune to it. This doesn't always increase the armour's effect, however, as many multiply it by less than one. The Ak-47 (yeah, I'm importing the friggin' kalashnikov) multiplies it by 0.25, and the barret multiplies it by 0.1, so it's all about the weapon you use.

 

Damage threshold:

DT reduces damage by a number of points, and only affects incisive weapons. (All others ignore it.) It can be several hundred points, but particularly sharp blades divide it by 2, 4 or 8. (Dull blades do the opposite.) Also, "piercing" incisive weapons, (such as an arrow in flight or any blade used to stab) divide it by 2.5, 5, 10, 20 or 40. So a blade that is beyond sharp and being stabbed with is almost immune to the effects, especially since melee weapons already do hundreds of points of damage.

 

EDR/EDT:

Just DR and DT, but for energy weapons. Both take effect, and both work on all energy weapons but the gauss rifle.

 

Limb Bonus:

A small amount of bonus hitpoints for a limb, equal to DR+DT. EDR and EDT have no effect on it.

 

As far as shot placement, I reccomend the heart. Neither the eyes nor spleen are added, and the heart is the best place to aim. (VERY deadly and it's in the center of the chest, so you don't have to worry about missing too much.)

[adman85]

Yah center mass at close range, pink spray from behind the bushes :D Edited July 8, 2011 by adman85

[avianmosquito]

Yah center mass at close range, pink spray from behind the bushes :D

 

Given that weapon spread and chance to jam are now affected by limb damage, weapon condition and skill, that's a very risky strategy. If you're going to sneak up, use a melee weapon and put them right down. Using a ranged weapon is to waste the element of surprise and going for the head is never a good idea.

[Nihilisaurus]

That was rude and incredibly blunt, but if you've soaked up enough rounds to know that first hand then I am not offended one bit and you're entirely justified. Human brains are strange and inconsistent organs we don't really understand yet. It does help they have armour plating though, laid out almost like that of an armoured vehicle with a thick, curved front designed to deflect impact. Correct me if I'm wrong but most of the times people survive being 'shot in the head' isn't it because they were either only grazed by a bullet or it was deflected off of their skull?

 

Also how do you plan on dealing with the incapacitating affects of blood loss and pain from injuries? I understand that trained personnel and such can probably think clearly enough to keep going (at least for a bit) once they've been injured, but for the escaped convicts and drug-addled bandits of the Mojave how are they going to react?

Edited July 8, 2011 by Lt Albrecht

[hadoumastery]

So as I myself have very little knowledge of what actually happens to a person when they get shot, I went looking around. And it seems you are exactly right. Most people bleed to death before they die and that can take several minutes, unless, they are shot in a vital area, such as the heart, liver, spleen or other vital organs such as the lungs which would stop your breathing and kill you in a matter of 30 seconds to a minute (give or take a bit). Now headshots... that is a completely different story, it more depends what area of the brain you are shot at. For instance if shot inbetween your eye (as most movies and other people say would kill you) then yes, that would more than likely kill you instantly for what part of the brain it hits. But in cases where you are shot on a side of your brain or near the center, it is possible to survive. So then, there is the matter of certain shots that would kill you in your upper shoulders that most trained snipers would aim for. It turns out that there is a major artery there that causes you bleed out within seconds, especially if the nearby bone breaks and shatters causing more damage (which it usually does). So in order to kill someone with a gun, you require multiple shots to kill someone, especially if they are wearing armor, unless you hit the right areas of the body.

 

Now there is room for error in what I have said since I am not an expert and I myself have never been shot. But this is what I have found, more than likely, one bullet will not kill you, unless it hits the right area. This is very important to me, since I have been looking about making a "Bullet Damage" mod which might go good paired with this mod.\

 

-Bullet Damage mod will remove most damage from the weapon and add it to the specific bullet instead, but certain guns will still add some damage to the bullet.

Edited July 8, 2011 by hadoumastery

[avianmosquito]

That was rude and incredibly blunt, but if you've soaked up enough rounds to know that first hand then I am not offended one bit and you're entirely justified. Human brains are strange and inconsistent organs we don't really understand yet. It does help they have armour plating though, laid out almost like that of an armoured vehicle with a thick, curved front designed to deflect impact. Correct me if I'm wrong but most of the times people survive being 'shot in the head' isn't it because they were either only grazed by a bullet or it was deflected off of their skull?

 

Wrong, the brain is just more durable than people think. I, for instance, was shot with an AR-15 of some kind. The shot entered above and to the left of my right temple, and exited behind my left ear. According to the man who gave me a transfusion, (not a doctor, I was commiting a felony when shot and didn't go to a hospital) I lost almost two litres of blood. Other than a perpetual headache and a hard time keeping warm, (apparently illusory, my temperature is normal) I'm fine. It's not the only place the man shot me, nor is it the only time I've been shot, but that's the only bullet that got me in the head.

 

I'm not the only one either. Check the links.

 

http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/simohayha.asp

http://writenow.wordpress.com/2008/02/20/alexis-goggins-goes-home-from-hospital/

Below are not gunshot wounds, but are massive penetrating head trauma nonetheless.

http://brightbytes.com/phineasgage/index.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12425803/ns/health-health_care/t/oregon-man-survives-nails-head/

http://gothamist.com/2010/05/30/man_falls_from_chelsea_building_imp.php

And, of course, the obligatory link to Cracked. There are a few more in there.

http://www.cracked.com/article_16497_7-people-who-cheated-death-then-kicked-it-in-balls.html/

 

Also how do you plan on dealing with the incapacitating affects of blood loss and pain from injuries?

 

Blood loss will cause a number of status effects using the "disease" section of the GECK. Having less than a percentage of your base health will trigger a status effect. The exception is the last stage, which triggers when you've lost 100% of your base health, even if you have a health boost keeping your hitpoints above 0. (Like a stimpack.)

 

As for pain, there's always the 'fatigue' system that's used for multiple hit knock-outs. Take too much pain too quick and you collapse. I also have nearly every type of injury reduce your "luck" if it gets too bad, which has a nice, universal effect that should help simulate reduced focus.

 

I understand that trained personnel and such can probably think clearly enough to keep going (at least for a bit) once they've been injured, but for the escaped convicts and drug-addled bandits of the Mojave how are they going to react?

 

Actually, no. There's this thing called 'adrenalin' and it's a great equalizer. Once the adrenalin kicks in, gunshots don't even hurt. Hell, one time I didn't even notice one of my gunshot wounds.

 

I'm working on an adrenal script. As soon as an actor is in combat, it increases their strength, agility and luck while lowering their charisma and intelligence. This will also increase their resistance to pain so much it's hard to make somebody really feel a hit. And, of course, it takes a minute to kick in, making sneak attacks more important.

 

I've got all my bases covered.

[avianmosquito]

So as I myself have very little knowledge of what actually happens to a person when they get shot, I went looking around. And it seems you are exactly right. Most people bleed to death before they die and that can take several minutes, unless, they are shot in a vital area, such as the heart, liver, spleen or other vital organs such as the lungs which would stop your breathing and kill you in a matter of 30 seconds to a minute (give or take a bit). Now headshots... that is a completely different story, it more depends what area of the brain you are shot at. For instance if shot inbetween your eye (as most movies and other people say would kill you) then yes, that would more than likely kill you instantly for what part of the brain it hits. But in cases where you are shot on a side of your brain or near the center, it is possible to survive. So then, there is the matter of certain shots that would kill you in your upper shoulders that most trained snipers would aim for. It turns out that there is a major artery there that causes you bleed out within seconds, especially if the nearby bone breaks and shatters causing more damage (which it usually does). So in order to kill someone with a gun, you require multiple shots to kill someone, especially if they are wearing armor, unless you hit the right areas of the body.

 

Now there is room for error in what I have said since I am not an expert and I myself have never been shot. But this is what I have found, more than likely, one bullet will not kill you, unless it hits the right area. This is very important to me, since I have been looking about making a "Bullet Damage" mod which might go good paired with this mod.\

 

-Bullet Damage mod will remove most damage from the weapon and add it to the specific bullet instead, but certain guns will still add some damage to the bullet.

 

You're reading some strongly exaggerated reports.

 

1. Multiple shots is a requirement to kill someone in almost every circumstance, and that can take as long as twenty minutes.

2. Single shot lethality is not a single shot stop. I've watched a girl die after being shot through the heart with a pistol. It took nearly ten minutes, and damned if a shot anywhere else is going to kill you faster than one through the heart.

3. Excuse me, but I've been shot in the head. Entry near the right temple, exit behind the left ear. As you can clearly tell, I'm not dead.

[Scorpio9]

You could ask Arwen to help you since he did realism tweeks