PC Upgrade for modded 21:9 skyrim.

[PillMonster]

obobski, on 17 May 2016 - 5:56 PM, said:

You'll notice that the source you've cited says:

 

"All Intel CPUs since Pentium Pro" - you've argued that isn't the case. Are you now meaning to argue against your own sources? Do you perhaps have a better source that supports this claim?

 

Also side-fact there: NX bit requires PAE to be implemented, so if the processor supports NX, it supports PAE.

 

Chipset/MMU support was not part of your original claim, and nobody has argued that physical (or OS licencing) limits won't come into play well before theoretical addressing limits do. So where's the conflict?

 

No idea what the second source is (if you're going to cite things, please provide complete citations not just random plagiarized stuff - what's so hard about providing a link?), but its got some inaccuracies (or at least quaint historical quirks) in it:

 

Arguing against my own sources? What on earth are you on about.

 

PAE is an Intel design for IA-32 CPU's enabling 36bit addressing on supported chipsets (servers) and is the ONLY way they can access over 4GB of RAM. Where is the contradiction????

I think you need to reread the thread because I said from the beginning remapping must be supported. Motherboards which do not have remapping option are limited to 4GB no matter what.

This covers basically all non-server boards up to the ~965. That was my point, I figured you being the expert would have known.. Look up Intel chipsets on Wikipedia.

I pull this info all out of my head, the screenshots are only for your benefit.

 

Also NX bit and PAE are mutually exclusive. All NXbit is just hardware DEP all it needs is a CPU with 64bit page tables. PAE as described by MSDN is the PAE bootloader switch not the CPU.

You can configure it however u want. Another thing is PAE is a separate OS kernel so even if it's enabled there's no guarantee it will work. After XP SP3 MS restricted it to Windows Servers.

Anyone who updated was SOL.

 

 

 

 

 

obobski, on 17 May 2016 - 5:56 PM, said:

 

- There is no "Pentium IV Xeon"

- There is no "Intel P7"

- The bits on Windows 2000 are roughly accurate; not all versions of Windows 2000 implement >4GB via PAE (only Advanced and Datacenter do; Professional and Server do not), but the parts about AWE are correct with respect to wanting a Win32 application to use >4GB of memory. For conventional Win32 applications you can "stack" them up to whatever the system's limit is, without having to resort to as much paging (e.g. say you have ten applications each using ~2GB and 32GB of physical memory - that would work).

Sauce: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/283037 and https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/268363 and here too: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/Dn613969%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

Hahha what??? No Pentium IV Xeon, no Intel P7? Priceless.

You realise the screenshot I posted comes from the INTEL System Administrators handbook, published by Intel???? Yes, published by Intel.

 

And you still don't get it or else u are just not listening. Win32 apps do not access RAM. Processors access RAM, the OS cannot access any more memory than the CPU.

 

 

 

 

obobski, on 17 May 2016 - 5:56 PM, said:

None of this actually has any bearing on the original discussion though ("what do I need to do for my computer to run Skyrim and other games on a 21:9 monitor") nor does it even provide support for your claim that "only server processors" support PAE or that PAE is some "Intel marketing ploy" that "uses pagefile" (there are end-user hacks that will map memory >4GB into a ramdisk and then assign that disk to pagefile; these were/are popular for Windows XP machines where people want to use more than 4GB of memory, but that isn't what PAE does (the big difference being that pagefile isn't mapped as system memory), nor is PAE Intel-exclusive, or Windows-exclusive (there are, however, in Windows Datacenter editions some Microsoft-specific caching features that rely on PAE, and are similar to the "Windows XP with a ramdisk" thing - they're described in the third link I provided)).

 

I'm having a hard time seeing why this diversion was necessary (or why the thread had to be necro'd to have it), or what you're even actually trying to argue (or argue about) here (your goal posts seem to keep moving). Perhaps you could clarify your intention and purpose? What are "we" supposed to gain from this experience?

 

EDIT:

 

Also nobody is arguing that PAE doesn't mean 36-bit ADDRESSING. It does not, however, mean 36-bit REGISTER SPACE. In other words, your Pentium Pro or Pentium 4 or whatever is not working on 36-bit ints or floats* (there *are* 36-bit processors, but they're older than time itself; PDP-10 is an example). Wikipedia has a quick'n'dirty explanation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension#Design

 

* With SIMD extensions you can theoretically support >32-bit floats.

 

Wtf does SIMD float have to do with the 32bit 4GB limit? PAE And what are those MS links meant to illustrate? That MS supports PAE....? Tell me something I don't know.....

PAE enables extra address bits on IA-32's, and only works on server platforms. It increases the number of bits from 32 to 36bit or better.

A CPU bit is simply a bus wire from the CPU to RAM, that's why the chipset has to support it. It's a physical thing.

 

I did make one mistake which I need to correct: if the platform is not PAE compatible, address space is not increased via pagefile. In reality nothing will change,

 

 

 

 

Mate to be brutally honest, you don't know what you're talking about and I'm convinced you're arguing for the sake of it... It's a waste of my time and anyone else's who reads this thread,

I will post some Intel datasheets for you to look at. Not sure if you will make sense of them though.

 

 

 

 

Btw you're now on my ignore list.

 

 

http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b608/pillmonsta1/Capture_zpsdtyxycdx.jpg

Here's one to start.

 

 

 

The Intel data sheets I' will upload when I have time this avo...if I can be bothered.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2016 by PillMonster

[PillMonster]

 

 

Snip---

 

Wow... thank you, not what I intended to get out of this topic but you went quite in depth while still remaining very easy to follow.

 

Sorry missed your post earlier,...but hey you're welcome. :)

 

PS: I'm originally from the Tron'. As in Hamiltron... :D

[PillMonster]

OK I found an article in MSDN library covering all we've discussed..... it's actually pretty clear which is unusual for an MSDN doco. feel free to read at your leisure, but only reiterates what I've already said. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/dn613969(v=vs.85).aspx

 

 

@Obobski

If you don't believe PAE was restricted to servers, this screenshot may change your mind:

 

 

 

http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b608/pillmonsta1/Untitled_zpsuywxa8fk.jpg

 

 

http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b608/pillmonsta1/Capture_zpsigzh5yoe.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

]

If you scroll down to here you'll see why PAE is really designed for servers. The only advantage for it on 32bit OS is to avoid paging, otherwise it's practically useless.

A home system 15years ago could not use all that RAM, even though the OS can address higher than 4GB it can still only access 4GB at once. But RAM makes for great storage so good for caching.

Which incidentally is the best argument for disabling the pagefile. AnywaylLike I said WMM is a very complicated topic, I'm over talking about it.

 

http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b608/pillmonsta1/Capture_zpsstncsd9x.jpg

 

 

 

 

Here's a link to the Intel datasheet however it's ~500 pages of technical data so don't feel forced to read it. Sections 1, 3a have mostly relevant info.

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/64-ia-32-architectures-software-developer-vol-3a-part-1-manual.html

 

 

Regarding the non existent CPU's; P7 is an Itanium core designed for high end IBM servers, 'P" is not short for Pentium. The P4 Xeon was the first Xeon, and built on Netburst, therefore 100% Pentium 4.

Edited June 3, 2016 by PillMonster