Roleplpaying deteriated by hack 'n slash

[ILikeMorrowind]

I've noticed for some time that roleplaying games are entirely focused on combat. Dungeons and Dragons, the pen/paper game, had nothing but combat in the core rule books. Then there's D&D Heros, BG2, Everquest, etc. Roleplaying is often the last thought when developing these games. The TES series seems to focus more on roleplay, but it got knocked down from Daggerfall to Morrowind. What I'm trying to say is where's the balance? Why can't the player decide to go fishing when there's a fishing pole in the game? Why can't the player sit down and rest? It's just simple stuff like that that could have been balanced with the creatures and art.

 

Everquest was probably the worst rpg I've seen. Everywhere around you, there's 20 monsters walking around. That's practically every mile you walk. With this example, I believe roleplaying games need to focus less on combat and figure out features on how the player can roleplay his character.

 

What's your opinion on all the roleplaying games you played?

 

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This is not for you to get offended! It's a discussion on all roleplaying games. If you can't positively critisize these games, please do not post. Thanks.

[cmac]

I do agree with you on several points:

 

1. Yes, I do believe that the character needs to have some 'non-combat' activities, as mentioned, like fishing. The Morrowind and other RPG's are focused so much on the combat aspects of a game that they forget to contribute to the true quality gamers (or at least me) love- peaceful activities. I would like very much to wander through the West Gash and admire the scribs than fry a cliffracer with Black Hand.

2. While it is not BAD that most RPG's are focused on fighting, it is necessary to a certain extent- the 'bad guy' always has to die, and it won't be over a cup of tea. And some treasures can't be just picked up at your local traders. And, there are always going to be politics, are fights that arouse over those, and other disputes, like necromancy, money, territory, etc. Plus, there are always going to be generally bad people wandering around, or stuck in caves- just plain old bandits.

[Peregrine]

Well, the reason for that is simple. Its a lot easier to make a combat focused game than program in every possible thing you could want to say/do and have an appropriate reaction for it. If you had a (computer) rpg with minor details like fishing available, you'd get a game that is both 1000gb in size and would never get finished. Without actual human players running every part of the game, the limited ai that exists right now is going to prevent a truly open rpg.

 

Games like Everquest could do more, but don't for an equally simple reason. The number of serious roleplayers who would buy it is far less than the number of casual gamers who want a simpler, more combat oriented game. So you might be able to have that openness, but the focus of the audience is going to be on the combat. And they'll bring in so much out of character stuff (clans, game mechanics discussion, etc) that you couldn't have a convincing world anyway.

 

As for pen/paper rpgs, they do have that freedom. The rulebooks just don't mention it since there aren't very many rules needed. Again, you could have fishing rules and all that, but the rulebook would be a mile high. Those things are settled by two basic concepts: DM set difficulty levels, and roll high to determine success. With that, a good DM can invent rules as needed to deal with that kind of stuff. Example: You want to fish. Roll wisdom check to pick a good spot. High roll = more fish. If rules are even needed, sitting and contemplating the meaning of life with your party doesn't involve too many rules! Then at most, all you need is a creative DM to give a good response to your actions.

 

What's my favorite? I like a good pc rpg for the simple reason that it's always there. Combat focus isn't such a problem since I like doing it. Of course I'd take a pen/paper rpg with a good group over that any day, but those are much, much rarer. Even the best AI is no substitute for a human party and a world run by a human DM.

[Ancalagon]

Yes, I do agree. In Morrowind I found that there were items (fishing poles, drums, lutes, sowing machines) that were unuseable. I find this ridiculous, as I would often get the urge to knit a pair of woolen mittens halfway through the game...:blink:. No, not really. But I do agree that there was way too much hack and slash in MW. I mean, every single critter that you come across in the wild is out for your blood.

[ILikeMorrowind]

:stupid: Even rats try to murder me and sometimes suceed.

 

I liked how on Everquest, you could literally do all that stuff. That's where Everquest succeeds and most prefer Everquest over Morrowind from whom I asked. Main reason was the features. It was never art/detail with their answers. Features make a roleplaying game. How can you roleplay when there are none?

 

All I noticed was for Morrowind was repairing armor, alchemy, and... hmm can't think of any more. :help:

[Malchik]

Get the official download and you can entertain the patrons in the Eight Plates Balmora - it's hardly exciting but you do get to play the drum and the lute.

 

I seem to recall in the old Ultima games you could fish and paint and make clothes. I never bothered, seemed a waste of time.

 

When games are being developed there is always market research. Perhaps it was found that these other activities were too marginal to be worth spending coding time on. But there is ample scope for modding some of these aspects into your own game - or so I am led to believe.

[Albareth]

There is also the small pointer that Everquest isn't RPG in its nature, and as such isn't quite a good example, people may CHOOSE to rpg in it, and it may be based on a fantasy enviroment - but so far I haven't heard of any mmorpg made only to rpg... (there is an RPG server on EQ though, so that may count)

 

If you're looking for true RPG, you have several options, some UO (Ultima Online) player shards are quite good "closed RPG", where only applicants get in... not a very populated world, but that's just realistic too. :D

[Shakkara]

Uhh...

In Ultima Online....

 

You can chop wood from a tree.

 

You can make your own fishingpole from the wood.

 

You can fish, either from your boat or from coastlines and bridges.

 

You then cut up the fish you have caught.

 

You can then cook the fish into whatever you want to make from it.

 

You can make a table and chair from the wood.

 

You can put the table and chair in your house you designed yourself.

 

You can sit down and relax while eating your fish.

 

You can pay 15 bucks for this each month, or you can contact me and do this for free. *hint*.

[ILikeMorrowind]

Sorry if this is short but I'm tuning my guitar.

 

I played the EQ rp server. It's very quiet comparing to the other servers, and when you say "hail, how are you this day?" They say great and all. Then there's abolutely nothing left to say! It's kinda hilarious but it also caused me to cancel my account really quick. Plus how can I roleplay in a controlled enviroment such as necromancers can't kill newbie players cuz "its not fair" but in reality it should so the players don't go ahead to far distances when they know they wont survive.

[ctogher]

Grunter & Seaweed Pie

 

I personally would never contemplate playing a game where major activities include catching fish or making furniture.

 

While these activities are great ways to relax in real life, the key phrase here is "REAL LIFE".

 

The whole concept behind RPG is escapism, meeting strange and exotic creatures and getting your b*hind wipped. For those brief hours in the game you can develop skills and relationships, (imagined), outside your normal frame of reference.

 

Quite frankly, the concept of playing a game where you emulate real life borders on the anti-social. Want to catch fish, get together with a group of freinds, find some open water and fish. I rather enjoy the sport.

 

I fear that should games progress in the direction of EQ that we will see a sudden decline in social interaction and communicative skills in future generations.

 

I enjoyed DnD. The interaction, new freinds, (some of whom are still there), exposure to different cultures/points of view. If all there is to interact with is an on-screen avatar, I will probably flog the PC for a couple of beers, a new rod and spend the remainder of my days on the beach.... ;)