Planning out a reputation system to script, would like some input.

[drewsbrew]

Hello all,

 

A while back I set out to make a crime and punishment overhaul mod. I created a post explaining some of the main features the mod would have, and there definitely seemed to be some interest in the mod, but unfortunately I hit a snag fairly early on. I was having some trouble with my scriptcompile.bat file and had to get that sorted out before I could continue learning how to script. I think I've resolved the issue now and would like to get back to work on my crime and punishment overhaul mod. For those of you who are interested in the wildlife loot mod I'm working on don't worry, I'll continue working on it as well. When I get tired of scripting I'll work on meshes and textures for the wild life mod, when I get tired of that I'll go back to scripting for the CPO mod... I'm ADD like that.

 

Anyway, at the core of the CPO mod there will be a reputation system that will have an affect on all other aspects of the mod. I typed out a 'blueprint' (if you will) that explains how I want the reputation system to work, but I've never designed anything like this before and I don't know anything about scripting so I'm hoping to get some input (preferably from experienced scripters). Will this plan work well, or will it be too script heavy? In the case of the latter, what suggestions do you have for simplifying it? Is there any other advice you have for me? Thanks :)

 

Here is what I have planned;

 

Character;

Your character rating is an overall reputation in Skyrim, it is meant to be a representation of what is at the very core of who you are and what makes you 'you'.

Disposition/Temperament

Basically, in short, the more you try to threaten or intimidate people, the more you get into fist fights, the more violent and aggressive you are considered to be by the people of Skyrim. The more you try and persuade people, the more you're considered nonviolent (or at least minimally violent). Donating money or going out of your way to help people with small things makes you ‘good natured’ in the eyes of the people of Skyrim.

Good natured characters will find that the people of Skyrim are more forgiving of their crimes when they make mistakes. In other words, you are less likely to have someone hire thugs to ‘teach you a lesson’, even if you’ve been caught red handed stealing from someone. Good natured characters will also have an easier time persuading people, and you can expect to pay lower prices in shops and receive more money for goods you wish to sell.

Trouble makers will find that trouble may come find them more often, in other words people are more likely to hire thugs to ‘teach you a lesson’, even if you haven’t committed any crimes. You’ll also have a much harder time persuading people, however you will have an easier time intimidating people. You can also expect to pay higher prices in shops and receive less money for goods you wish to sell.

Heroism/Villainy

Heroism is increased by completing major quests for the most part, as well as completing bounty hunting contracts, and basically anything ‘heroic’. Having a reputation for being a hero will make people like you more, they may begin to give you gifts, or even applaud when they see you.

Villainy is increased by committing terrible acts such as murdering people (or taking slaves, or being a bandit if you decide to use those mods when I make them). Having a reputation for being a villain will make people run away from you in fear.

Renown

Are you a nobody or one of the most recognizable people in Skyrim? Did you only just narrowly escape your execution in Helgan and come stumping out of the caverns beneath the city, a stranger in Skyrim, or are you a Thane in every hold... Harbenger of the Companions... Archmage of the College of Winterhold... Dragonborn? Word of your exploits will get around, the more you do, the more likely people will have heard of you.

Having a high renown adds multipliers on to the amount of points you accrue for all other reputation elements, i.e.; disposition, heroism, etc., and it also makes you much less likely to be the victim of a corrupt guard, or a false accusation.

Criminal Reputation

Criminal rating [temp name] is a point system, you accrue 'criminal points' for crimes committed that you are caught committing, or crimes you're accused of an unable to prove your innocence. Serious crimes have a high point value while minor crimes have a low point value. Serving a sentence for crimes committed (or accused and found guilty of) cuts the number of points accrued down, while breaking out of prison multiplies them, and simply paying a fine or bribing the guards does nothing.

Affiliations

College of Winterhold- Reduces all positive reputation elements by 50%

Companions- Increases all positive reputation elements by 50%

*Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild have no effect because they are secret organizations.

[csbx]

Sorry if I missed this in my quick read: will this be a global kind of reputation or a localized one ? Can you have a reputation for being bloodthirsty and ruthless in one hold and benevolent in another depending on how you behave towards each respective hold ?

[drewsbrew]

That's something I'm still trying to hash out the details of... basically at this point my thinking is there should be some aspects of your reputation that are hold specific, and some that are global. Renown for example I think will be a global thing, as will the affiliations. The other parts though, like disposition will be local I think. Of course, I am very open to suggestions.

[csbx]

One general approach I have been advocating (though my suggestion didn't get much traction in the context of Frostfall..) is the idea of having more content of the game 'locked' behind various kinds of requirements. Considering how many quests are generally thrown at you as you walk around, I think it's an approach that has a place somewhere.

 

In terms of what this would look like as a function of a reputation system, I was thinking that maybe some quests from some people simply don't open up until certain requirements are met--whether that is an npc's being sufficiently frightened by your presence or won over by your friendliness to the hold, etc. Adding conditions to quest dialog is actually quite easy to do, so if you went that route, it would not be much work--comparatively speaking, of course.

 

Anyway, I'm just riffing and perhaps fondly recalling the first time I played Fallout: New Vegas-where, as you probably know, the reputation system was integral to the game.

Edited May 8, 2016 by csbx

[drewsbrew]

I like that idea, however one of my main concerns with this is the mod being too script heavy. I wouldn't want people to have to choose between this mod and others on the basis of scripts and script bloat. What are your thoughts on how heavy weight this would have to be?

[csbx]

Adding conditions to quest dialog involves zero scripting--it's as lightweight as can be. You just basically add one or more conditions to the pertinent quest dialog so that it only is spoken when your new condition (that does a check for your reputation, e.g.) is satisfied. I'm a modding nubile, but can think of ways to get this done using a reputation quest system.

 

How were you imagining 'storing' the information regarding e.g. the player's reputation with a hold or the player's heroic status overall ? I've never used global variables, but that may be the way most would handle this.

 

I like that idea, however one of my main concerns with this is the mod being too script heavy. I wouldn't want people to have to choose between this mod and others on the basis of scripts and script bloat. What are your thoughts on how heavy weight this would have to be?

Edited May 8, 2016 by csbx

[drewsbrew]

I'm just barely getting started in terms of scripting, so I'm not sure about the specifics of how I would implement this, I'm basically just trying to get a solid plan in place, then work on execution. I guess one concern I have as far as the plan goes is this might be a little too complex and maybe I should simplify it. That concern goes back to script bloat.

[Madrias]

As you'd asked me to check this out after coming up with a lot of ideas for your Crime and Punishment Overhaul, and you needed input on your Reputation system, I'm here, and sufficiently tired enough that the ideas will flow, although I'll try to have some restraint on post length. Granted, this is a much less idea-inducing topic (only one thing really to discuss, rather than a dozen ideas that spawned from one another, though that might still happen) but I'm willing to help with ideas.

 

Disposition and Temperament:

Personally, I think these two should be split. I know, I know, it's more work, but hear me out. I have a reason for splitting this up.

 

Disposition:

The way I see it, your Disposition is how NPC's perceive you as a person. You're somewhere on a sliding scale from "Good Natured" to "Troublemaker" and thereby when dealing with NPC's, they rely on what they know of you. Being closer to Good Natured means NPC's like you more, which results in:

+Lower prices

+Easier Persuasion

+Easier to be Forgiven

-Easily taken advantage of

-Harder Intimidation

-Higher Bribes

 

Things that would put you closer to being good natured:

+Donating money

+Completing Miscellaneous sidequests

+Not Stealing or Committing Crimes

+Persuading people

 

However, there's always a flipside to the scale, and that's being a Troublemaker, and you'd get to deal with:

-Higher Prices

-Harder Persuasion

-Harder to be Forgiven

+Rarely taken advantage of

+Easier Intimidation

+Lower Bribes

 

And obviously, things that'd make you a troublemaker"

+Committing Crimes

+Fistfights without Brawling (I'll get to it, I promise, there's a reason to make this split)

+Intimidating people

 

Temperament:

The reason for splitting this is to allow a bit of a situational conflict, and thereby more things that can happen.

 

Essentially, while Disposition deals with how people see you as a person, Temperament is a modifier to that. The idea is that while you could be seen as Good Natured or a Troublemaker, there's also the fact that you have to consider how you're known to react to a situation.

 

Temper slides between "Calm Natured" and "Furious" with "Even Tempered" in between. By default, you are "Even Tempered" until proven otherwise. So, let's start with what that gets you:

 

Even Tempered

/ Standard Prices

/ Equally able to Intimidate or Persuade

/ Standard Reactions (I'll get to it)

 

Doesn't seem like much, does it? However, this is the only stage that doesn't have penalties going with it.

 

So, what changes your temper? Well, with - going toward Calm Natured and + going toward Furious:

- Persuading your way out of situations.

- Praying to the Divines (once a day)

- Reacting non-violently.

+ Reacting Violently

+ Praying to the Daedra (once a day)

+ Intimidating your way out of situations.

 

Simple, right? Not quite. Praying should always have a very small modifier, so that it takes a lot to change anything. It's mostly there as an idea, or an option to make an adjustment. Now, the idea I had is that a modification to quests like the Thugs could be useful:

One, to modify the Thugs to give an option to Persuade, Intimidate, or Do Nothing (Defend). Persuasion would work better if you're good-natured enough to do it, Intimidation would work better if you're a known troublemaker, Temper modifies your odds of success.

Two, to add the ability to confront the person who sent thugs after you in the first place, with the options to apologize, persuade, intimidate, or attack.

 

So, what would the modifiers be for those four things I just mentioned?

Apologize should push your Temper toward Calm Natured by a reasonably large amount.

Persuade (on Success) should push your temper toward Calm Natured a little.

Intimidate (on Success) should push your temper toward Furious a little.

Attacking should push your Temper toward Furious by a reasonably large amount.

 

Note: an attack doesn't have to result in death. In fact, I think the idea of the dialogue option "You'll regret you did that. (Attack)" should start a brawl with the NPC in question. Remember how I said above, that by default, Brawls shouldn't count against you? This is why. I see Brawls in Skyrim as a sport, much like bowling, baseball, soccer (football for our friends across the pond), and golf. They don't have anything else to do, so they get drunk and punch each other until someone gives up. Perfect example is the fight in Jorrvaskr when you first visit the Companions.

 

So, what happens if you do everything right, apologize to those you've wronged, persuade your way past every challenge in your way, and end up Good Natured?

+ Better Prices

+ Easier Persuasion

+ NPCs like you more

+ Divines give stronger blessings. (basically tripling their default effects)

- Easier to take advantage of

- Harder to intimidate

- Much more expensive bribes

 

And if you attack everyone who sends thugs after you, after intimidating those thugs to leave you alone, and end up known to be Furious?

+ Lower bribes

+ Easier Intimidation

+ Less likely to take advantage of you.

+ Easier Persuasion (though nowhere near as much as Good Natured. Basically, your temper is legendary, and whoever you're persuading will realize this is a rare opportunity. But some people just don't care.)

- Divines give weaker blessings. (Basically half of their default effects)

- NPCs dislike you more

- Higher Prices

 

Now, I know what you're thinking, that both offer easier persuasion. Yes, but NPC's still hate you more if you're Furious, which kinda reduces that persuasion boost to an almost-worthless level. Basically, it'll only work on the most fearful of NPCs.

 

Now, I've mentioned this four times now, and I know you've got to be wondering:

What do you mean "taking advantage" of the player?

 

What I mean is you're likely to get cheated out of gold when turning in quests, because you're the "nice guy" who "would do this for free if you were really a good guy" and "wouldn't mind" if they kept some of the gold. If you're a known troublemaker, they don't want to cheat you out of your rightly-earned gold: They fear you'll break into their house and steal everything. If you're known to have a violent temper, they don't want to face your wrath, so they pay you fully. But if you're good natured or if you're known to be even tempered, you're less likely to do anything about it, so the population of Skyrim takes advantage of that. It's a harsh world out there. Oh, and the effects stack, so if you're a good-natured person with a violent temper, they cancel out, or if you're a troublemaker with a calm temper, it cancels out. If you're good natured with a calm temper, you'll almost always get the guilt trip, and if you're a violent troublemaker, you'll never be shorted.

 

An example, using a standard everyday "Go kill the Bandit Leader of (insert dungeon here)" quest. Let's set the character as the perfect good-guy, so Good Natured and Even Tempered, thereby getting double-stacked with a chance of being taken advantage of. We'll also assume that your Crime and Punishment Overhaul is working, so this is a Bounty Hunter quest, and you can capture the bandit alive for a higher reward.

 

So you go into the dungeon, bringing justice with a blade to all but the bandit leader, and you use Persuasion to make him give up. ("I'm sure if you turn yourself in, you'll receive a lighter punishment.") You bring him back to, we'll just say Whiterun because I'm tired and can't think of a better place right now, and turn him in to the Jailer in Dragonsreach.

 

His (or her, I won't discriminate) dialogue should go something like this:

"Thank you. I'll see to it that this bandit trash sees justice."

Obviously, you get a choice between two dialogue options:

"I was told there would be a reward"

and

"Isn't the reward supposed to be higher for bringing them back alive?"

If you get lucky, he'll reply,

"Yeah, sorry, almost forgot about that." and pay you your reward, shorted by about a third. (if it was supposed to be 1,500 for bringing them in dead, and you triple that to 4,500 for a live reward, you'd get 3,000 because you've been taken advantage of, with no way to call him out on it unless your temper was high enough.)

If you're not lucky, he'll reply,

"The safety of Skyrim should be enough of a reward for you." Attempting through any means to get your reward at this point just results in a similar line. Attempting intimidation ends up leading to:

"I'm not scared of you. I won't make the first move, and if you do anything to me, you go in there with your new best friend."

Attacking him (only available after a failed intimidation for a character who's good natured and even tempered) results in a very quick beatdown and you ending up arrested. (The idea being that the Jailer should always be two or three times the player level, and have a modified version of the Khajiit Unarmed Damage Bonus that allows him to do stupid amounts of damage in a brawl (which Attack would be a modified brawl quest anyway) so he'd end up winning easily. Obviously, even if you win, he'll just put a stupidly high bounty on your head because you've screwed up your Reputation and gained a poor disposition against him.)

 

So being the good guy has penalties, obviously, but so does being the bad guy. How do you balance this out?

 

That's easy. If you set the % chance for being taken advantage of at 40%, then it's only 40% as long as you're either Good-Natured or Calm Tempered. Now, obviously, there's a reason you start out in the middle on both, and that's just because you're not known to anyone.

 

Now, changing your Global Disposition and Global Temperament should take a long time. However, local ones should change easier, and there should be sub-factions and obviously exceptions.

 

Now, to simplify this, I'm going to call Disposition and Temperament, along with Hero/Villain, Fame/Infamy, Criminal Reputation, and Affiliation all as "Reputation" for now. I'll continue with the ideas of each being separate after this, but I need a way to track all of this without wearing out my fingers.

 

I'll break it down for an example on what I think would work (note, this may not be even practical to code, though I think you could probably find a way to approximate it)

 

Global Reputation takes so long to change because it's based on Skyrim's 9 holds and their Reputations toward you. So, it takes forever to change because, early on, you're only known in Whiterun Hold, and the other 8 holds don't know a thing about you. Later on, you're the Dragonborn, so you're a little known, and a lot of people see you as a hero (I'll get to it), and even later on, you've been to most of the holds and done quests and you've interacted with people.

 

Hold Reputation is based on factions within the hold as well as your Crime Reputation. These should be:

-Guards (Separate from Crime. If the Guards hate you because you keep finding reasons to punch them, or you attack the Jailer because you haven't gotten paid, it should be independant of your bounty. Also the hardest to get back up, because of pack mentality.)

-Shopkeepers (If you cause problems in one shop, expect everyone to hear about it in no time flat, and expect higher prices as a result)

-Citizens (The common folk you see shopping, wandering about, etc. Easiest to have your Reputations change because your only real option is small-talk and the occasional quest.)

-Nobles (The Jarl and his Court. Offend these guys and you're bound to have a bad time.)

 

Now, there should be Excluded Factions. These are factions that just don't change, no matter what you do. They should be:

-Any Faction with a Questline.

-Temples of Divines and their Followers (the idea being that even if the Divines hate you, the Priests and Priestess' of the Divines believe you could be saved from evil)

-Temples of Daedra and their Worshippers (the idea being that the Daedra love change, whether for good or evil. Why hate someone who brings change in every footstep?)

 

So, to recap:

Global Reputation changes as a result of

Hold Reputation, which changes as a result of

Guard, Shop, Citizen, and Noble reputations, which change as a result of

The player's Actions for or against those factions

 

However, your questline factions, temples, daedric quests, they never change around you.

 

Okay, I've covered Disposition and Temperament finally. Oops, that's a bit lengthy. Well, I did warn you I had ideas.

 

So, Heroes and Villains has to wait, because something has to be covered first, and that's Fame/Infamy, which I'm using to cover Renown.

 

Fame and Infamy should sound familiar, because I believe Oblivion used a similar system.

 

Fame is gained through, well, quests. Specifically, notable quests. You gain fame from:

= Being named Dragonborn by the Greybeards

= Becoming a Thane

= Joining the Companions

= Joining the College of Winterhold

= Becoming Harbinger of the Companions (classed as a separate event, because this should bring much more fame than just joining them, but they're known around Skyrim.)

= Becoming Archmage (again, the College is known around Skyrim, but the Archmage is more important)

= Joining the Bard's College (Solitude Fame Only, but it'll help some)

= Restoring the Burning of King Olaf (Fame is not Solitude only, just very mild)

= Buying the Player Home in a hold.

= Completing the Purity Quests for the Companions (Big fame boost, as you've saved the Companions, or at least, those who considered it saving, from their little problem.)

= Completing the Civil War for either side.

-----DLC-----

= Joining the Dawnguard (Very small fame boost at first, as everyone's heard by that point about the Dawnguard)

= Completing the Dawnguard Questline for the Dawnguard (The world is saved from a vampiric plot to kill the sun!)

= Buying a plot of land in a hold

= Building a house on that plot of land

= Dragonborn DLC completed, as you saved Solstheim from certain doom.

 

Now, you gain Infamy from quests, too, and only from the quests. Infamy is not a bad thing, though: it'll carry modifiers that offset certain... unwanted effects from Disposition/Temper.

 

Infamy is gained from:

= Joining the Dark Brotherhood (and this is because every now and then, you hear a guard say "I know who you are. Hail Sithis." So if it's all that secret, how has a random guard heard about you?_

= Joining the Thieves Guild (Sure, it's secret, but Riften's known as the home of the Thieves' Guild.)

= Murdering the Emperor (Big gain of Infamy. You just killed the 'most powerful' person in Skyrim.)

= Restoring the Thieves' Guild to its former glory. (Big gain of infamy. You just made the Thieves' Guild notorious again)

= Daedric Quests. (Decent infamy gain, especially if you wander around with Daedric stuff in your inventory)

= Being a Vampire (small infamy gain, hardly noticed)

= Being a Werewolf (small infamy gain, hardly noticed)

-----DLC-----

= Joining the Volkihar Vampires (Small infamy boost)

= Completing the Dawnguard Questline for the Volkihar Vampires (A Vampire has Auriel's Bow and can blot out the sun!)

 

Now, Fame and Infamy both work together to entirely benefit your character. Why? Because you shouldn't be punished for picking certain questlines, keeping certain abilities, etc.

 

Fame modifies:

+ Less likely to be taken advantage of.

+ Easier Persuasion

+ Easier Intimidation

+ Better Prices

 

Infamy modifies:

+ Less likely to be taken advantage of.

+ Easier Intimidation

+ Lower Bribes

 

As said, don't punish for taking up questlines that aren't just for good characters. The idea behind this is that even the character playing the holy do-gooder we mentioned above, who got the unwanted modifier of 80% likely to be taken advantage of, if they just do the 'good' quests (the Fame List) could completely erase that modifier by the time they've completed the vanilla list, let alone the DLC list.

 

At the same time, if they decided to fall from grace and completed the Infamy list, they could erase the 80% modifier again, and they've boosted their Intimidation a touch. Complete both, and while it doesn't make the Disposition/Temper completely irrelevant, it gives you a feeling of respect (Ever notice how Skyrim's NPCs are just completely nasty to you, even when you're the Archmage, Listener, Harbinger, Guild Master, Dawnguard/Volkihar, Dragonborn, and Savior of Nirn? The idea of this is to stop that by making them have some bloody respect.)

 

So, with Fame/Infamy covered, let's go into Heroes and Villains.

 

Heroism is gained from doing the 'good' quests. Main quest, Companions, College of Winterhold. Also from Bounty Hunting. Hooking to the ideas from the Crime and Punishment Overhaul, you get Heroism points for being on the Jury and making the right decisions (Letting the innocent go free, punishing the criminals. Oh, crap, I'll have to make another post over there mentioning this idea and fleshing it out... I'll do that after I finish this...) and for assisting in punishments (As said, I'll have to mention this over there.)

 

Villainy is gained through doing terrible things. Murder, theft, slavery, banditry.

 

So, what do they both do, and how do they effect you?

 

Heroism:

= At higher levels - Passive Bonus: No One Dares. (Better quest reward gold, better prices, +10% health/magicka/stamina regeneration boost)

= Better prices

= Criminals Submit (Bandits would rather not fight such a well known hero. It's far better to tell your story of how you were defeated by the great and mighty Dragonborn after you capture them. After all, they'll have plenty of time to perfect and tell the story.)

= Delighted to see you - Citizens give gifts, applaud when they see you, or cheer. Happens when you haven't been seen in a civilized area for a while (in other words, if you camp in Riften for a while and then travel to Solitude, you won't get this, but if you camp in Riften, then decide to go clear out, say, Fort Greymoor, then head to any city, you'd get a lot of praise.)

 

Villainy:

= At higher levels - Passive Bonus: Primal Fear. (Fear Cloak affecting all but the most sturdy beings (up to level 60 run away in terror.), possible bonus damage on fleeing targets)

= Higher prices

= Criminals are Friendly (Bandits won't attack, whether because you're one of them, or they're just afraid for their life.)

= Leave At Once - Shopkeepers won't do business with you, Guards won't let you into walled cities, and they won't have the keys on them if you pickpocket or kill them. Only way into a city is a master locked gate.

 

Obviously, this is where things start to happen. Now, Villainy goes away in one of two ways, and seeing as this is supposed to partner with Crime and Punishment Overhaul, I feel this is fair. The first way is to just simply wait long enough for it to bleed down. Your crimes will eventually be forgotten, or at least, considered less important. The second way is through CPO by turning yourself in and accepting your punishment.

 

So, why does Villainy use Leave At Once as something it does? To slow down a player's villainy streak to allow them to cool it down. Why? Because once you have Primal Fear, the only way to turn yourself in will be when the Jarl and the Jailer send out Elite Bounty Hunters, who have explicit instructions that you are not to be killed. Primal Fear is basically designed to make the game nearly impossible to play, and realistically so. At that point, you're considered something no longer human, but some Daedric beast in human shape, because no one would believe a mere mortal could cause so much devastation and pain. Leave At Once would kick in fairly early on.

 

So, the Stages of Villainy would be:

1: Higher Prices ("You and your kind steal from me all the time, so you'll pay more to pay me back.")

2: Criminals are Friendly (Preparations for Leave At Once or for Banishment. Note: This ability goes away fairly fast, but Leave At Once goes away first, so you'll be able to hide out in towns long before you end up being killed by bandits who were once friendly)

3: Leave At Once ("Skyrim is No Place for a murdering Daedra like you. Go back to Oblivion.")

4: Primal Fear ("Run away! It's going to kill everyone!")

 

I was thinking that basically, one murder wouldn't be enough to invoke Leave At Once, but it should instantly put you at Criminals are Friendly. Two murders should invoke Leave At Once. I'm thinking 5 should be the point at which Primal Fear kicks in (to prevent it being activated by accident. No one murders 5 people in Skyrim 'by accident') and that's because Primal Fear is temporarily game-breaking.

 

So, Villainy points should be something like...

20 points for every item stolen (worth doesn't matter, it's just counting thefts.)

500 points for banditry (500 points worth of stolen items. This adds another 500 to make an even 1000)

750 points for slavery.

1000 points for a murder

 

Which I think gives the points tiers for 1-4.

1: 20 - 1800, with prices rising in 5% increments, for a total of 375% higher prices, stacked with your adjustments for disposition and temperament modifiers.

2: 500+, as we want bandits to be friendly before 3 can ever be started.

3: 1800, guaranteeing either 2 murders starts it, or 3 enslaved people, or 2 enslaved people and a few stolen goods.

4: 4500, thereby either 5 murders or 6 enslaved people causes everyone to run from you.

 

As for Heroism, I'll leave the scale up to you.

 

Okay, Criminal Reputation now...

I think I talked about that one pretty well in CPO, so I'll leave it there.

 

That leaves affiliations, which is about the only one I actually severely disagree with... So I have ideas, as usual, on what would work better.

 

Affiliations:

 

Joining an organization in Skyrim, vanilla Skyrim at least, carries no risks and fairly sorry rewards. I'd like to change that a bit, personally. While there still shouldn't be too many risks, the rewards are, well, not enough on their own.

 

Let's look at what you get by default.

 

The Companions, you get an axe that kills elves better, a nifty shield that you'll end up putting on your wall, a select choice of followers with an AI that makes a box of rocks appear smart, and if you chose to keep it, the ability to become a beast that requires mods just to make it not die in combat with anything that outnumbers you, and an armor set that, by the time you get to make it yourself, is outclassed by anything you can grab off of a Thalmor patrol or a dead bandit. (Seriously, I've gotten more Nordic Carved Armor (Dragonborn DLC) off of Bandits than I can use, long before I ever get my first set of Wolf Armor unless I rob Skjor of his.)

 

The College of Winterhold, you get a circlet with a fairly mild enchantment on it, some robes that have an enchantment weaker than I can make on any bog-standard bit of gear, and a fancy room in the College. Wow, that's a lot less than I remember it having... Oh, and I suppose you get a dragon priest mask from that part of the quest.

 

Dark Brotherhood, you get some decent light armor, although easily surpassed by anything you could find laying around after a few levels have gone by, a really good storyline, some funny clothing that makes you look like Cicero, or some really funny clothing if you had the last laugh, a dagger which makes a decent collectable, and a new lair that's a total gold sink for everything you just earned.

 

Thieves Guild, you get some decent light armor, though it's surpassed by everything by the time you grind out the million pointless thievery quests to get it, a halfway-decent storyline, another set of decent light armor that should get you killed if you wore it in public, and the world's worst game of "I hid these everywhere, so have fun finding them."

 

Blades, you get a dragon-slaying Katana, and a set of kinda crappy armor.

 

And now the Civil War, because it's something to consider.

 

Imperial Legion, you get a suit of Imperial Armor (your choice on light or heavy), an enchanted and leveled item for each rank-up, and an enchanted and leveled sword on victory.

 

Stormcloak, you get a suit of Stormcloak armor, an enchanted and leveled item for each rank-up, and an enchanted and leveled sword on victory.

 

So, how do we fix this...

 

Well, first, let's do this. Wearing faction armor should make you hated by those who hate the faction. There, that'll make things easier. So, pretty much, most armors aren't going to be affected. However:

 

Wolf Armor means even if you manage to raise your villainy high enough to be thrown out of towns, bandits are still hostile: You're one of the companions, or so they think. Use a different armor if you need to hide out like that.

 

College Robes really won't be hated by anyone, but you'll be recognized as one of the College of Winterhold Students. Archmage Robes won't be hated by anyone, but you could go give the Jarl a heck of a scare.

 

Wearing your Dark Brotherhood Armor in public should make normal citizens flee in terror, guards should (depending on how far the questline is along) either tell you not to take armor off of dead assassins (assuming you're not far along), treat you as a trespasser and that you need to leave, and failing to listen results in an arrest (completed a few quests), or run in terror (killed the Emperor). The Penitus Oculatus should want you dead on sight.

 

Wearing Thieves' Guild armor in public should have all eyes on you, being wary. Guards should attempt to arrest you for suspected thievery.

 

Wearing Nightingale armor in public should have only the most vigilant of guards being able to spot you, but unable to remember why they wanted to arrest you (Basically, wearing Nightingale armor should be trouble free, other than that if you change out of it in plain sight, you're going to be arrested for being a thief. Consider it Nocturnal's Protection, if you will.)

 

Wearing Guild Master's armor in public should have you arrested for thievery.

 

Wearing hold guard's armor should make you appear to be a guard to most people, except other guards. Wearing one hold's armor in a different hold will have no effect.

 

Wearing Blades Armor should make Thalmor hostile to you.

 

Wearing Thalmor robes (hooded) should make Stormcloaks and Thalmor hostile to you.

Wearing Thalmor robes (no hood) should make Thalmor hostile to you, and Stormcloaks hostile only if your race is Altmer, Bosmer, or Khajiit. (Would also be a good reason for the Stormcloaks to be hostile if you're Dunmer and wearing these.)

 

Wearing Imperial Legion Armor should make Stormcloaks hostile to you.

 

Wearing Stormcloak Armor should make Imperial Legion Soldiers and Thalmor hostile to you.

 

The idea being that, rather than wearing whatever you want and getting away with it, you'll be treated as a member of that faction and given the respect you deserve for doing so. Walking through Windhelm in Thalmor Robes should get you dead in 10 seconds flat.

 

And we'll expand this list intelligently to include amulets and artifacts:

 

Wearing an Amulet of Talos should make the Thalmor hostile immediately.

 

Wearing or wielding Daedric Artifacts should make the Vigilants of Stendarr hostile. (having them in your inventory, however, should be safe.)

 

Now, to make faction armors worth it, because now they all inherently carry a little bit of risk:

 

Wait for it.

 

Your current Disposition/Temperament is nullified as long as you wear the armor. If you're well known, this effect is itself nullified. (The idea being that, as long as you're a nobody, everyone assumes you're just whatever you're wearing. If you're famous, they'll recognize you through your 'clever disguise' and treat you like normal. It also means you can't just use Guard Armor or Soldier's Armor to get into a town you've been thrown out of.)

 

Then there's a matter of two/three 'bonus' armors that can be worn. These could be designed as effectively easter eggs.

 

Emperor's Robes: Despite the fact that everyone knows the Dark Brotherhood murdered the Emperor, if you wear his robes, you boost all positive attributes of your Disposition and Temperament. People won't take advantage of you. Guards (if this is possible) will kneel before you. If wearing the full set, even Jarls will kneel before you.

 

Jester's outfit: When people see you, they can't help but like you. Prices are much better.

 

Greybeard Robe (I think this has to be consoled in, although some mods may have made them available): The resonance of the Thu'um has settled into the very fabric of these robes. Persuasion is almost always successful, intimidation is almost always successful, and Shouting is 75% more powerful.

 

Again, just a handful of ideas. Not sure if any of them are practical.

[Cliffracerz]

I wish you the best of luck with this! Reputation/Fame is something that I sorely missed in Skyrim.