This ingame mod bulls*** has to stop

[Reneer]

I am calling bullcrap. Here is the issue spelled out.

 

The problem is Bethesda's mod management implementation broke the modding of my game. The mods are only put in place by NMM according to Bethesda’s modding methodology. The game used the mods properly before Bethesda stuck their fingers in and tried to take control of modding. Now, after removing all mods [/size]incompatible with 1.5, the mods located in the proper game directories still don't work. Either they don’t load, or they have to be re-enabled every time, or the game ctds at random when trying to start games, including new ones. Trying to use the newest NMM does not help a bit.

 

This game, running with 88 mods, was the least crashy of any Bethesda game I ever played. Before 1.5, that is. Now it's effectively unplayable unless I am using straight vanilla. And I refuse to let any game developer lead me down a Disneyesque romp through a post-apocalyptic wasteland to my inevitable glorious victory with push-button sex with my "followers" guaranteed any time I want to be friggin creepy like that.

 

That experience is just not worth my time (nor do I enjoy creepy push-button sex with video game characters).

 

Also, don't quote my post and claim you know what the problem is if you don't have knowledge of my troubleshooting efforts. I mentioned spending hours troubleshooting.

I made mods prior to the CK being even in beta using FO4Edit, and those mods load just fine in 1.5. I've made mods post-CK beta and those mods work just fine in 1.5. The only difference between you and me is that I don't use NMM to load my mods - I put them manually in plugins.txt before the Bethesda Mod Manager came out and simply switched over to that when it was released. So yeah, I do have an idea of what the problem is, regardless of your hours of troubleshooting.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Reneer

[Launius]

Ya know that rule where they say, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." Well, let's just say, I'm really, really tempted to light something on fire. Look, I'm not trying to be a white knight (as it is so eloquently put), but game development isn't quite as cut and dry as some people think. It isn't like writing a story or even making most movies. There are so, so many facets that a developer has to merge together to get the end product that you call a game. Not to mention the array of individuals that have to work together to accomplish that merge. It simply isn't feasible that developers live up to the impossible standards that a game should be bug free upon release or even at all (which I'll admit can be subjective). The way I look at it (for whatever it's worth), is that you aren't paying for the game, you are paying to support the developer and their passion for making games. Betheseda is at the forefront of modder-friendly game developers. You know this because they've pretty much said it. And more than that, they give us the creation kit. All I'm asking is that people consider that kind of thing before they go picking fights. On the other hand, I like fights. So I'm conflicted as to whether or not I care if you go picking fights. I'm sorry, I'm on a lot of medication (hence the semi-derailing of this thread).

Edit: BTW, I've had no problems using NMM to run over a hundred mods on my game.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Launius

[Danneyo]

Ya know that rule where they say, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." Well, let's just say, I'm really, really tempted to light something on fire. Look, I'm not trying to be a white knight (as it is so eloquently put) but game development isn't quite as cut and dry as some people think. It isn't like writing a story or even making most movies. There are so, so many facets that a developer has to merge together to get the end product that you call a game. Not to mention the array of individuals that have to work together to accomplish that merge. It simply isn't feasible that developers live up to the impossible standards that a game should be bug free upon release or even at all. The way I look at it (for whatever it's worth), is that you aren't paying for the game, you are paying to support the developer and their passion for making games. Betheseda is at the forefront of modder-friendly game developers. You know this because they've pretty much said it. And more than that, they give us the creation kit. All I'm asking is that people consider that kind of thing before they go picking fights. On the other hand, I like fights. So I'm conflicted as to whether or not I care if you go picking fights. I'm sorry, I'm on a lot of medication.

 

Edit: BTW, I've had no problems using NMM to run over a hundred mods on my game.

 

Seconded. I'm really not sure what all this whining is about, since Bethesda pretty consistently produces at least enjoyable content, and supports their stuff way better than most other companies. And that's now me "Blindly Defending Bethesda" either. Not a whole lot of other companies would not only consistently update their games with new under-the-hood features (Such as the new Nvidia damage particle generation), let alone new content like what we're seeing with the Survival updates. On top of that, after years of using unofficial means, we can now choose between the in-game mod loader, NMM, or both. And not only that! But now, this in-game mod loader means that people whoa re not privileged with a PC capable of running Fallout 4 can experience mods. As a free update as well, with no paywall in sight, or any evidence to support the paid mod conspiracy going around.

[dazzerfong]

Yep, that happened when the patch first came online. My fix? Get rid of the mods plugins file (both of them). Problem fixed immediately (except for one rogue mod which didn't have a master and was playing havoc on everything).

[seekingthesun]

The asterisk thing isn't a solution to mod makers who need to enable new plug-ins and test things with high frequency. I might change names all the time It's just annoying that it adds time to boot-up

[dainsgames]

 

I am calling bullcrap. Here is the issue spelled out.

 

The problem is Bethesda's mod management implementation broke the modding of my game. The mods are only put in place by NMM according to Bethesda’s modding methodology. The game used the mods properly before Bethesda stuck their fingers in and tried to take control of modding. Now, after removing all mods [/size]incompatible with 1.5, the mods located in the proper game directories still don't work. Either they don’t load, or they have to be re-enabled every time, or the game ctds at random when trying to start games, including new ones. Trying to use the newest NMM does not help a bit.

 

This game, running with 88 mods, was the least crashy of any Bethesda game I ever played. Before 1.5, that is. Now it's effectively unplayable unless I am using straight vanilla. And I refuse to let any game developer lead me down a Disneyesque romp through a post-apocalyptic wasteland to my inevitable glorious victory with push-button sex with my "followers" guaranteed any time I want to be friggin creepy like that.

 

That experience is just not worth my time (nor do I enjoy creepy push-button sex with video game characters).

 

Also, don't quote my post and claim you know what the problem is if you don't have knowledge of my troubleshooting efforts. I mentioned spending hours troubleshooting.

I made mods prior to the CK being even in beta using FO4Edit, and those mods load just fine in 1.5. I've made mods post-CK beta and those mods work just fine in 1.5. The only difference between you and me is that I don't use NMM to load my mods - I put them manually in plugins.txt before the Bethesda Mod Manager came out and simply switched over to that when it was released. So yeah, I do have an idea of what the problem is, regardless of your hours of troubleshooting.

 

 

Are you saying I did not do that exact thing? Because I did that exact thing. As part of my hours of troubleshooting. And many other steps. But you wouldn't know that, because you don't know what I did during my hours of troubleshooting.

 

So, any accusations you have of NMM / me of causing the problem (apparently because Bethesda can do no wrong in your eyes or something) are completely unfounded. Given that, and you've responded twice now with more accusations, this conversation is over.

 

Goodbye, and have fun playing your apparently functional F04 game while I play different ones because Bethesda broke mine.

[dainsgames]

Ya know that rule where they say, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." Well, let's just say, I'm really, really tempted to light something on fire. Look, I'm not trying to be a white knight (as it is so eloquently put), but game development isn't quite as cut and dry as some people think. It isn't like writing a story or even making most movies. There are so, so many facets that a developer has to merge together to get the end product that you call a game. Not to mention the array of individuals that have to work together to accomplish that merge. It simply isn't feasible that developers live up to the impossible standards that a game should be bug free upon release or even at all (which I'll admit can be subjective). The way I look at it (for whatever it's worth), is that you aren't paying for the game, you are paying to support the developer and their passion for making games. Betheseda is at the forefront of modder-friendly game developers. You know this because they've pretty much said it. And more than that, they give us the creation kit. All I'm asking is that people consider that kind of thing before they go picking fights. On the other hand, I like fights. So I'm conflicted as to whether or not I care if you go picking fights. I'm sorry, I'm on a lot of medication (hence the semi-derailing of this thread).

 

Edit: BTW, I've had no problems using NMM to run over a hundred mods on my game.

 

Congratulations, I'm glad your game works. (No really, I was starting to have real fun with mine when all this happened.)

 

But I'm sorry, you can't claim that when someone promises you something, they can deliver a busted product and still charge full price because "it's too hard to make what we promised".

 

If they can't make what they are promising, they need to promise less, charge less or give refunds. Know what I'm saying?

[dainsgames]

Yep, that happened when the patch first came online. My fix? Get rid of the mods plugins file (both of them). Problem fixed immediately (except for one rogue mod which didn't have a master and was playing havoc on everything).

 

Lolwhut? First time I've heard that method, but it makes sense that it would force the game to remake the mods files and that would fix any issues with them. (I was concerned about whitespace since we had to manually edit them and did my best to make sure that wasn't a thing. But without good patch notes, you never know. )

 

I'mma try that, thanks for the tip!

[Reneer]

Are you saying I did not do that exact thing? Because I did that exact thing. As part of my hours of troubleshooting. And many other steps. But you wouldn't know that, because you don't know what I did during my hours of troubleshooting.

 

So, any accusations you have of NMM / me of causing the problem (apparently because Bethesda can do no wrong in your eyes or something) are completely unfounded. Given that, and you've responded twice now with more accusations, this conversation is over.

 

Goodbye, and have fun playing your apparently functional F04 game while I play different ones because Bethesda broke mine.

Well, I wouldn't know what you did during those hours of troubleshooting, since you never told us. Should I have asked what you did? Yeah, probably, so it's my bad for not doing that. Sorry.

 

But if you think I believe Bethesda can do no wrong, you know nothing about me. They do a whole lot wrong. Their games are often buggy as s#*!, their technical support is often nonexistent, they never really listen to their users on most things, and to top it all off they are so secretive they make the NSA often look like a ray of sunshine.

 

Glad to hear you might have found a solution to your problem. I was going to suggest that you rename your plugins.txt file and see if that helped anything, but it seems you are already on that track. Good luck with it.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Reneer

[ZardozIX]

Personally I don't use the ingame mod manager and just continue using Nexus. I looked at it once and it crashed on the way out and I have enough problems with NMM crashing that I don't need more. :laugh:

 

(Just a little poke guys, don't take it seriously.)

 

But it's either Bethesda trying to make the mod situation more user friendly for those not savy in the ways of wizards or Bethesda has made a sideways move to press out the Nexus community and wants to take over the Whole Shebang. I don't know why anyone would wish themselves so much pain but there it is.

 

I choose to believe that Bethesda saw this as a feature and not a bug. But it's not easy adding bells and whistles when they sound like a Death knell...

 

I say keep up the good work Bethesda and keep trying to make things better.

 

 

 

BTW, fixing the mod list / CTD situation is like the Chinese proverb :

 

"A journey of Ten Thousand miles begins with the first step..."