Few questions to modders about what is possible to mod in fallout 4

[TeamBacon]

 

The forced four-response dialogue wheel is pretty bad. When writing dialogue sometimes I want to provide one or two responses to the player and sometimes I want six. There are particular situations where fewer or more options underscores what's happening in the dialogue itself and adds a further dimension to what's happening at that moment. The wheel gets in the way of that with its forced four response set-up. It isn't the end of the world, though, just an inconvenience. Modders will produce mods with good character development, good stories to tell, etc with what we've been given.

 

I know that modders will create great mods even with this inconvenience but it disappoints me greatly that Bethesda decided to 'consolize' dialogue system making it more inconvenient for both people creating mods and using mods just to make dialogue system just a little bit easier to use for console players even though previous dialogue system was perfectly functional, whats more in the long run this change will also become inconvenience for console players once quests with extensive dialogues will come out on consoles.

 

 

I don't find it inconvenient at all, I like it much more than the old system.

 

I have about 400 pages of dialogue in my notebook, about half of which is going into the final draft of my mod. And in that time, I have never once felt limited by only having 4 options.

 

I like to branch things naturally, the way conversations unfold in the real world. It isn't really practical to have more than 2 different 'skill checks' or something to solve a problem. The more of those you add the more you cheapen how unique and golden the opportunity to use your 'Lady Killer' or 'Chemistry' perks are.

 

I like using lots of 'skill checks' but spread about in different ways, and making them work in ways where they are not always the right answer.

 

 

 

But anyways, in the long run, I am far, far more excited about the Fallout 4 dialogue system and what I can do that I was about previous games. When I saw the new system in the E3 trailer, I immediately started writing because I was that excited.

 

I haven't had as much time to play around inside the Creation Kit as I had planned this last week, but very soon I will be playing around some more with what exactly I can do with the 'real time' mechanics of the dialogue to add some things you might not be expecting.

 

 

 

And... as someone who plays mods, I will be so incredibly glad that I don't have to see 10 to 12 dialogue options to menu crawl through every time I turn around.

 

 

 

Thank you Bethesda for this.

[ddavies10693]

A lot of what the OP is asking would likely require F4SE updates and new features from that and the CK. So yes, those things are theoretically possible, but probably not practical anytime soon.

[culaio]

Remember, the Creation Kit is only in Beta. there are a bunch of issues that I personally find tool-breaking (lack of pre-compiled meshes setting, cause of the cell reset bug). Bethesda clearly have no problem making small changes to the gameplay (survival mode) so perhaps we may see support for >4 dialogue options in a future CK update.

 

 

 

 

Hopefuly they will do that.

 

 

 

The forced four-response dialogue wheel is pretty bad. When writing dialogue sometimes I want to provide one or two responses to the player and sometimes I want six. There are particular situations where fewer or more options underscores what's happening in the dialogue itself and adds a further dimension to what's happening at that moment. The wheel gets in the way of that with its forced four response set-up. It isn't the end of the world, though, just an inconvenience. Modders will produce mods with good character development, good stories to tell, etc with what we've been given.

 

I know that modders will create great mods even with this inconvenience but it disappoints me greatly that Bethesda decided to 'consolize' dialogue system making it more inconvenient for both people creating mods and using mods just to make dialogue system just a little bit easier to use for console players even though previous dialogue system was perfectly functional, whats more in the long run this change will also become inconvenience for console players once quests with extensive dialogues will come out on consoles.

 

 

I don't find it inconvenient at all, I like it much more than the old system.

 

I have about 400 pages of dialogue in my notebook, about half of which is going into the final draft of my mod. And in that time, I have never once felt limited by only having 4 options.

 

I like to branch things naturally, the way conversations unfold in the real world. It isn't really practical to have more than 2 different 'skill checks' or something to solve a problem. The more of those you add the more you cheapen how unique and golden the opportunity to use your 'Lady Killer' or 'Chemistry' perks are.

 

I like using lots of 'skill checks' but spread about in different ways, and making them work in ways where they are not always the right answer.

 

 

 

But anyways, in the long run, I am far, far more excited about the Fallout 4 dialogue system and what I can do that I was about previous games. When I saw the new system in the E3 trailer, I immediately started writing because I was that excited.

 

I haven't had as much time to play around inside the Creation Kit as I had planned this last week, but very soon I will be playing around some more with what exactly I can do with the 'real time' mechanics of the dialogue to add some things you might not be expecting.

 

 

 

And... as someone who plays mods, I will be so incredibly glad that I don't have to see 10 to 12 dialogue options to menu crawl through every time I turn around.

 

 

 

Thank you Bethesda for this.

 

 

I must disagree about new system being more natural, in real life people some times change subject when talking with someone, also people sometimes ask many questions, also people when interacting with someone have many ways to achieve something like for example get the info, and you forget the fact that player characters of someone people simply may lack certain perks to achieve something in certain way but have other perks that could achieve same goal in different way(lack lady killer to seduce target but have lot of intelligence to outsmart target), limiting skill checks will make only certain character builds viable..

 

 

A lot of what the OP is asking would likely require F4SE updates and new features from that and the CK. So yes, those things are theoretically possible, but probably not practical anytime soon.

I hope you are right, about it being possible eventually.

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2016 by culaio

[tartarsauce2]

given that thing on being unable to add new perk trees to skyrim, I feel obligated to mention that technically having limitations isn't THAT limiting necessarily
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/68425/?
PERSONALLY I would like to see a complete overhaul of perks to be much more invigorating and immersive similar to perkus maximus or this I guess, if that can be pulled off (thief rope etc) with "verticality" from fallout 4 being such a big thing...

ohhhh boy. we might see something not quite, but kind of like the old half-life 1 modding community (or at least early gary's mod)
I'm a little worried about the dialogue options limitation myself, maybe someone will find a workaround, one of the things that bothers me is that the voice acting kind of heightens the bar so quest mods may seem lacklustre without voice acting, on the other hand a good enough one can just rely on the good old "we've always done it like this and we're used to it so it's fine" style of approach
if there's a voiced character and they're not necessarily speaking a ton, it might be like reading a novel, you just input what their voice sounds like in your head naturally

[culaio]

given that thing on being unable to add new perk trees to skyrim, I feel obligated to mention that technically having limitations isn't THAT limiting necessarily

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/68425/?

PERSONALLY I would like to see a complete overhaul of perks to be much more invigorating and immersive similar to perkus maximus or this I guess, if that can be pulled off (thief rope etc) with "verticality" from fallout 4 being such a big thing...

 

ohhhh boy. we might see something not quite, but kind of like the old half-life 1 modding community (or at least early gary's mod)

I'm a little worried about the dialogue options limitation myself, maybe someone will find a workaround, one of the things that bothers me is that the voice acting kind of heightens the bar so quest mods may seem lacklustre without voice acting, on the other hand a good enough one can just rely on the good old "we've always done it like this and we're used to it so it's fine" style of approach

if there's a voiced character and they're not necessarily speaking a ton, it might be like reading a novel, you just input what their voice sounds like in your head naturally

 

While perk overhauls are great they cant help with what people want to add with new perk tree's/skills for example some people wanted to recreate in skyrim some skills from older elder scroll games like 'Athletics' which were trained by running and swiming(and it increased speed of those), or 'Acrobatics' which increase jumping height and decreased falling damage(and was trained by jumping...a LOT), and some people had ideas for completly new skills like mining that would either decrease time mining and/or increase how much ore you would get from mining. Many modders had great ideas for new perk tree's/skills that sadly couldnt be realized with limitations of skyrim.

[demonofsarila]

 

Few questions to modders about what is possible to mod in fallout 4

I am not a modder but I would want to know what modding in fallout 4 can do, so I would know what kind of mods I can expect and what I shouldnt expect ever to be added to game

is it possible to:

1)increase amount of dialogue options from standard four ? Current dialogue system cripples a lot quest mods

2)change leveling system to something more similar to previous fallout games(skills, traits) ?

3)add to game custom power armor frames, that only use their own specific parts and/or have their own animations ? for example if someone wanted to add power armor to game that is more form fitting then standard power armor, something like iron man armor

4)add to game special power armor(with its own power armor frame) wearable on top of power armor ? hulkbuster style

 

 

For 3 and 4 the other day I saw a custom power armor on nexus (that I'm assuming was based on an anime) for female characters that left the stomach visible. So I'm assuming as long as you either put up with clipping or be careful you can make power armor look like just about anything.

 

also http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/8802/?

Edited May 12, 2016 by demonofsarila

[seekingthesun]

The modders who have made full service mods that have custom meshes/textures/animation are those that have some technical background and have been modding for around least 3 years. So yes, and I look forward to your mod sometime around the year 2020 : )

[culaio]

 

 

Few questions to modders about what is possible to mod in fallout 4

I am not a modder but I would want to know what modding in fallout 4 can do, so I would know what kind of mods I can expect and what I shouldnt expect ever to be added to game

is it possible to:

1)increase amount of dialogue options from standard four ? Current dialogue system cripples a lot quest mods

2)change leveling system to something more similar to previous fallout games(skills, traits) ?

3)add to game custom power armor frames, that only use their own specific parts and/or have their own animations ? for example if someone wanted to add power armor to game that is more form fitting then standard power armor, something like iron man armor

4)add to game special power armor(with its own power armor frame) wearable on top of power armor ? hulkbuster style

 

 

For 3 and 4 the other day I saw a custom power armor on nexus (that I'm assuming was based on an anime) for female characters that left the stomach visible. So I'm assuming as long as you either put up with clipping or be careful you can make power armor look like just about anything.

 

also http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/8802/?

 

 

Not sure if you are talking about NAVI power armor, but if you do I want to mention that this mod changes standard power armor frame into custom one, when you fulfil certain condition(wear certain clothes) also you can put on it stadard power armor parts on it, also when you play male character you cant get new power armor frame but you can put new parts on standard frame, sadly I do not know if the way we get new frame(by turning old frame into new by fulfiling conditions) and sharing of parts between new frame and old frame is because of mod creators choice or because of limitations of engine

 

Also adding new perks was never a problem in either fallout and elder scroll games, but adding new skills is.

[TeamBacon]

 

I must disagree about new system being more natural, in real life people some times change subject when talking with someone, also people sometimes ask many questions, also people when interacting with someone have many ways to achieve something like for example get the info, and you forget the fact that player characters of someone people simply may lack certain perks to achieve something in certain way but have other perks that could achieve same goal in different way(lack lady killer to seduce target but have lot of intelligence to outsmart target), limiting skill checks will make only certain character builds viable..

 

 

Unless you are making a mod that simulates your character being interviewed for a job, conversations in general take an organic nature not all unlike a tree.

http://i68.tinypic.com/34rf8qv.gif

 

Which of those looks more organic and natural to you? Do you want 10 choices all coming out of one point that the player has to keep returning to in order to progress with the story? Or do you want to have 15 choices that progress in a way that fits the role playing style of your character and allows you to progress in the way you choose?

 

It only takes 2 or 3 options to progress through a natural human style conversation.

 

The idea is to build answers off of previous answers, then you can control the tempo, mood, and pacing of a conversation. You can't build tension with having all 10 choices at once.

 

 

 

If you can't create roleplay options with 4 choices, then you are not trying very hard.

Fallout 4 does not suffer because there are only 4 choices, but because they usually aren't choices to begin with. Adding a whole bunch more empty choices wouldn't be any better. Quality over quantity. That is why I think people should only use 3.

Roleplaying doesn't come from having a big long list of ways to respond to one thing, and that is a horribly inefficient way of writing. Roleplaying is built over time as things build.

As far as skill checks, if you layer a whole bunch on at any one point it just cheapens how useful it is to have 'Chemistry' for example by having so many other options like letting the same players solve that problem with 'Lady Killer' or 'Having 7 points in Strength' or 'Being a Brotherhood of Steel Paladin'.

The idea to make good quality roleplaying is to spread these out. Overall give the player MORE times to use skill checks, but don't have a whole bunch at any one point in time. You can even use 10 or 12 for a particular choice by layering it through multiple stages of the conversation, making it seem less like a menu and more like a logical progression of problem solving.

Much in the way that I brainstorm with my fellow modders on how to solve something, we will have an idea and maybe nobody will have the 'Skill Check' so to say, so we continue to progress with the conversation and brainstorm further.

You should really try it, you might be surprised how fun it is to work in this manner. If you want some tips on the Creation Kit or writing for games in general, feel free to Private Message me. I don't want to ramble too much here if nobody is really interested and I am just wasting my time though.

I'm sure Llama has some better solutions than me as well, she has a lot of experience working with New Vegas and doing dynamic dialogue.

Edited May 12, 2016 by TeamBacon

[EmissaryOfWind]

@TeamBacon that's really interesting, as a writer myself I'd love to hear more about the way you write for a game.