Few questions to modders about what is possible to mod in fallout 4

[llamaRCA]

FO4 is not the quintessential Bethesda game and that's not a good thing. They've successfully genericized their game to the point that if it didn't contain traditional Fallout factions I wouldn't know it was supposed to be a Bethesda TES/Fallout title.

 

The market doesn't need more generic open world games with some shooting and RPG elements. Bethesda should have stayed true to their roots. They didn't need to gut the characteristics that made their games unique in order to bring in more players or maintain the ones they have. Skryim's enormous and continued success proves that. The game is very, very fun, but it's not what I'd consider to be a Beth game and it's a shame to see their unique style gutted by a misguided attempt to do whatever it is AAA studios have decided is the right way to design games right now.

[tartarsauce2]

rustyxxl and myself had an argument because we agreed with eachother in the wrong way
basically we discussed the whole thing (I ask you not to necro this thread because then it'll be my fault for bringing it up, but it's a good resource to read through)
basically, what we got in FO4 was a themepark, but with no intrinsic ups or downs aside from a well written story with some real gut punches, and admittedly well done personality'd companions
it was too soap opera/drama in a sense, not enough rollercoaster with the day to day of people as you run and do errands for them (but really odd ones)
I'm reminded of the fallout 2 vault city inner and outer city questlines for instance when I think of the good ones - or how blowing up the reactor that the ghoul city(northeast quadrant of the map, fallout 2) kept operational wasn't just "a fun aside" it was literally a genocidal action against ghouls, who were also using their power to hold hostage/gain bargaining power in dealing with that one city and you basically picked who would live or who would die, and even doing "the right thing" in that trading town in fallout 1 yielded obviously questionable and mixed results
https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/4053670-would-those-who-oppose-paid-modding-have-an-issue-with-it-being-limited-to-consoles/page-2
the main theme I want to get across is "imperial decay"
while the technical quality is superior to previous titles, the spark of creativity and new'ness was kind of stomped on it seems, like the work is derivative of previous titles a little bit too much
many pre-collapse empires have similar things, where at the moment of the height of formal skill of the artisans, the management is rotting from the interior leading to a collapse of such a pretty and fragile thing - like a dead tree

think about it, you had fallout 1, fallout 2, fallout tactics
then you had 3, new vegas
and FO4
now, I'd be remiss to leave out the possibility of FO4 as a sort of collective reboot, a regrouping to forge ahead because the stuff "as is" was exhausted, after all FO3's capital wasteland was very different than FO1-2-tactics, while NV was a return to the style of those with the new engine and lessons learned from FO3...

each generation has different qualities, I would like to see FO4 take a new direction from what it seems has happened, one of the other things I'd want to tell bethesda is "reputation" and that you need to protect it by going over and above in the quality department, if the DLC starting with far harbour takes a turn for the bigger and better, then I will be happy that disaster is averted (but they better not pull this stunt again with ES:6) with the barebones implementation of so much, I'm hoping that what happened here was that the game engine was new, and so on, but I also can't help but notice that when a company starts becoming a phenomenon unto itself it tends to start getting into circlejerking its own fame, like game of thrones the series has
when something starts trying to meta itself, it's cannibalizing itself, and becomes junk

to that extent, I formed my own sort of set of ideas for an expansion of FO4 into a milieu of experiences, technically it's got the elements that currently exist, but a slight reconfiguration and addition of new aspects, so that the game itself could be a living, breathing thing going forwards, with multiple factional storylines that would require multiple playthroughs to get all of, and each one more or less changing the way the game plays out, with each of the 6 factions having different elements, and tying into previous fallout games (all of them even)

it's a bit jumbled, but if you go down to the end you might see what I'm getting at, it'd require real dynamic changes to the world in large form as things go on, and dynamic spawning would've been a thing, similar to skyrim's civil war questline for forts, but better and a little more "randomized" (like it wouldn't just be settlements it'd be various areas changing, to represent the shifting political and military strengths of the wasteland)
maybe I'll ask the CSE war of the commonwealth person what they think, they seem to want a lively place too
indeed, what happened to nightkin? why are there so few heavy weapons? I do like the survival changes, that come from a mod of skyrim, and other disease elements from previous beth games - even if the save in beds only thing is a real pain :tongue:
https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/4110840-i-accidentally-a-whole-new-storyline-for-all-kinds-of-crazy-good

Edited May 14, 2016 by tartarsauce2

[TeamBacon]

FO4 is not the quintessential Bethesda game and that's not a good thing. They've successfully genericized their game to the point that if it didn't contain traditional Fallout factions I wouldn't know it was supposed to be a Bethesda TES/Fallout title.

 

The market doesn't need more generic open world games with some shooting and RPG elements. Bethesda should have stayed true to their roots. They didn't need to gut the characteristics that made their games unique in order to bring in more players or maintain the ones they have. Skryim's enormous and continued success proves that. The game is very, very fun, but it's not what I'd consider to be a Beth game and it's a shame to see their unique style gutted by a misguided attempt to do whatever it is AAA studios have decided is the right way to design games right now.

 

I honestly did not like Skyrim. I was never all that motivated to mod Skyrim or New Vegas because the games themselves did not excite me the way Fallout 4 does.

[culaio]

@TeamBacon

Of course everyone has right to like what they want, but it makes me wonder what exactly attracts you to fallout 4 ? even though not everyone liked world from new vegas(it wasnt for everyone) but generally everyone agree's that it had much more depth then fallout 4, the fact that you enjoy the most game that is the least bethesda-like RPG could mean that bethesda style RPG were never for people like you(I dont mean it in bad way, I just mean people who look for something else in game), but this is where problem starts, Is it ok for game dev's to sacrifice enjoyment of old fans who were supporting them for years to attract attention of new players, especially if it was possible to reach middle ground where old fans are satisfied while attracting attention of new players

[TeamBacon]

@TeamBacon

Of course everyone has right to like what they want, but it makes me wonder what exactly attracts you to fallout 4 ? even though not everyone liked world from new vegas(it wasnt for everyone) but generally everyone agree's that it had much more depth then fallout 4, the fact that you enjoy the most game that is the least bethesda-like RPG could mean that bethesda style RPG were never for people like you(I dont mean it in bad way, I just mean people who look for something else in game), but this is where problem starts, Is it ok for game dev's to sacrifice enjoyment of old fans who were supporting them for years to attract attention of new players, especially if it was possible to reach middle ground where old fans are satisfied while attracting attention of new players

 

I don't mean this to be rude, but like I said before, my conversation with you is over. You seem to want to be a critic and not want to use your critical thinking skills. You want to nitpick every negative detail of one game while just giving older games a glance over at the pretty aspects but not even mentioning their glaring flaws.

 

This conversation can go nowhere, and with all do respect I don't want to waste your time and mine.

 

Maybe when I release my mod, you can leave a review trashing my decisions and saying how poor my story telling is and we can pick up this conversation then.

[llamaRCA]

 

FO4 is not the quintessential Bethesda game and that's not a good thing. They've successfully genericized their game to the point that if it didn't contain traditional Fallout factions I wouldn't know it was supposed to be a Bethesda TES/Fallout title.

 

The market doesn't need more generic open world games with some shooting and RPG elements. Bethesda should have stayed true to their roots. They didn't need to gut the characteristics that made their games unique in order to bring in more players or maintain the ones they have. Skryim's enormous and continued success proves that. The game is very, very fun, but it's not what I'd consider to be a Beth game and it's a shame to see their unique style gutted by a misguided attempt to do whatever it is AAA studios have decided is the right way to design games right now.

 

I honestly did not like Skyrim. I was never all that motivated to mod Skyrim or New Vegas because the games themselves did not excite me the way Fallout 4 does.

 

 

Yeah, I'm not a huge Skyrim fan either and could never get a mod to completion there although I tried more than once. I just never wanted to spend that much time in the gameworld. I much prefer the Fallout universe, but I did play hundreds of hours of Oblivion. Beth has(had) a knack of creating charming worlds to play in and, although I very much enjoy FO4, it lacks a lot of that charm. The mechanics are greatly improved, and I appreciate that a lot, but I do miss the classic Beth feeling that the earlier games had. I'm still playing FO4 though, and expect to for years to come. But I can love it and be disappointed at the same time.

[culaio]

@TeamBacon

Like I said before you dont have to replay to me.

 

I never said previous fallout games didnt have flaws, like for example skills only mattering at certain points(25, 50 and so on), also I didnt say that fallout 4 doesnt have good things about it, I mentioned in earlier posts in this thread that power armor is best it ever was in the fallout series, the moment I jumped from roof of build to ground with made me feel like a GOD, I felt like I could take on anything :smile:, weapon and armor modding are also rreally great, I did exzpect slightly more from it but I still have lots of fun with it, shooting also is much better then in previous games but the thing is that all those things are just means to an end, they are things that are supposed to make it more enjoyable as you interact with the world(explore, interact with people, do quests and so on) and this is the part where game falls short, not only this wasnt improved its actually worse then in previous games.

 

 

I will probably play your mod and will most likely praise it, even if it isnt my type of mod I will still praise since I have nothing but respect for modders who do stuff for free. Modders most of time create stuff higher quality then Bethesda.

Edited May 15, 2016 by culaio

[TehDave]

Unique power armor frame visuals (at least while worn) are possible, since the actual mesh while worn is specified as an armor addon, the actual armor object calls it for the visuals.

 

What I'm not entirely sure can be changed is making entirely unique frames that will always use your custom mesh while worn regardless of outfit worn, or the world object you interact with to get into power armor, what would happen is that you'd get into the default frame and then it would magically morph into the custom model. Ideally you'd want to change the 'furniture' object to match the new frame's visuals but I'm not sure that's possible (you'd have to rerig the custom frame as the worn version does not have the rigging for the suit opening up like the furniture object does.

 

Currently working on an armor mod that is a standalone power armor frame with integrated armor built in (really, just building the mesh right now) but this will be problems I will eventually have to solve to get it working like I want it to.

[culaio]

Unique power armor frame visuals (at least while worn) are possible, since the actual mesh while worn is specified as an armor addon, the actual armor object calls it for the visuals.

 

What I'm not entirely sure can be changed is making entirely unique frames that will always use your custom mesh while worn regardless of outfit worn, or the world object you interact with to get into power armor, what would happen is that you'd get into the default frame and then it would magically morph into the custom model. Ideally you'd want to change the 'furniture' object to match the new frame's visuals but I'm not sure that's possible (you'd have to rerig the custom frame as the worn version does not have the rigging for the suit opening up like the furniture object does.

 

Currently working on an armor mod that is a standalone power armor frame with integrated armor built in (really, just building the mesh right now) but this will be problems I will eventually have to solve to get it working like I want it to.

 

It makes me happy that you are working on mod like this since I was always huge fan of power armor mods :)

 

Reason why I asked all those questions earlier about power armor is because there is one mod I hope someone will make one day tony stark/iron man inspired mod, but not simple armor that someone is probably going to make sooner or later but quest mod inspired by stuff tony stark gone through, for example: we are kidnaped by raiders because of our knowledge from time before world got destroyed(we were part of millitary so we should posses knowledge about weapons) , they want us to build weapons for them but we do what tony stark did and build power armor from scraps, to escape and after that we build more and more advanced power armors.

This mod idea isnt copy of iron man story since there are differences in the worlds, like for example the fact that power armors exist, but differencess like this is what would make the mod more interesting, but for this idea to work our power armors would have to be different then the ones in game which is why I think new power armor frame would be needed.