GMax Texture Failures?

[Allannaa]

All right, again, I've spent quite a few hours reading to see if this was covered, and if it was, I can't find it.

 

I got tired of having to correct fifty pieces of a room or cave or whatever, every time I wanted to make something, so I downladed GMax, which is a freebie of 3dsmax, and supposedly works exactly the same way (not that I would know, I HATE programs which force a wireframe UI because I can't see them right or something, but anyway). So I thought, I'll import the front and back corners of my room into this neat little program, and export them as one thing. The cool little grid background will enable me to position the two corners perfectly with no oopsie-space or overlap.

 

But first I wanted to be sure GMax would in fact work as advertised.

 

To test this out, I opened GMax, and selected Import, NIF files. I picked at random, Oblivion > Data > Meshes > Architecture > CastleINterior > Castleint1way.nif

 

The file loaded and was all purty on the GMax window stage. I did NOTHING to the file, AT ALL, other than select the pan camera and look at it from multiple angles. I exported it as TestCastle

 

Then I went into TESCS, loaded my AllaHouse plug in as the active file, went to the Object Window, clicked a blank space and selected NEW, called it Testout, loaded "TestCastle.nif" as the mesh, and hit Okay.

 

I should mention, this is exactly the same procedure I use to make any new toy with TESCS and it works every time.

 

However.... Not this time.

 

I pull the object into the working render window and it loads all right.... but without half the textures. The floor textures are gone, one wall texture is gone. It's a flat black plane.

 

I have one of those WTF?? moments, assume I exported wrong, and go back to GMax. I told it to reset the UI, just in case I'd clicked something funny. I closed and re opened it. I re-imported the same file from the Oblivion directory -- NOT the place I saved it to for testing. I re-exported it, allowing the export window to choose defaults...

 

Back into TESCS, I have the same trouble.

 

Well, fine, I thought, screw this... I exported the file as a 3ds, imported it into Poser, looked at it, checked the textures, saw that everything was just fine, exported it as a 3ds, then re-imported it to GMax, changed it to a NIF -- and that was the ONLY CHANGE MADE -- and exported it as a NIF....

 

Rinse, repeat. In TESCS, and in the test-run game of Ob, those flat black surfaces? Yeah, still flat and black. No texture. Nothing.

 

What in the name of DiBella's art classes have I done wrong here?

 

I'm really really lazy, I don't want to build a castle piece by piece every time I want to make myself a new place to hang out in. I thought it would be so easy to do this, you know?

 

And I should mention -- Last night, I imported Stack3wayBottomRightHall01, Stack4wayBottomHall01, and Stack3wayBottomLeftHall01 -- Lined them up in GMax, exported them, made a model in TESCS, and they worked FINE! No blank black stuff, nothing wrong whatsoever, except I had one piece a bit off. So I deleted that "model" and started over to line them up better -- I should never have done that, I know... but I did...

 

So why was it working last night, but not now? I swear, I'm gonna dive into an Ob Gate and just die from frustration!

[amycus]

I've never modded for oblivion, so I'm afraid I don't get half of your description. I do have some experience of 3ds max (and to a lesser extent of gmax). However, the black surfaces you describe, do you mean that when you import a mesh into gmax some of the polygons on it are black, with no visible texture?

 

If that's the case, it sounds like flipped normals (I've had a case of this sometimes while exporting and importing back to max). Just select the "black" weird polygons, and add a "normals" modifier and tha should fix it, making the texture visible again.

 

The file loaded and was all purty on the GMax window stage

Also, can you please describe what you mea by "purty"? Not a native english speaker, and it didn't make much more sense when I googled the word...

 

Some screenshots would probably also make it easier to understand the problem

Edited July 22, 2011 by amycus

[Allannaa]

I've never modded for oblivion, so I'm afraid I don't get half of your description. I do have some experience of 3ds max (and to a lesser extent of gmax). However, the black surfaces you describe, do you mean that when you import a mesh into gmax some of the polygons on it are black, with no visible texture?

 

Yes, I think we're talking the same thing. The model looks fine except for those black polygons.

 

If that's the case, it sounds like flipped normals (I've had a case of this sometimes while exporting and importing back to max). Just select the "black" weird polygons, and add a "normals" modifier and tha should fix it, making the texture visible again.

 

Okay, how do I do that? And... do you have any idea why it was NOT doing this yesterday, but is doing it suddenly? Did I change some global setting somewhere?

 

Also, can you please describe what you mea by "purty"? Not a native english speaker, and it didn't make much more sense when I googled the word...

 

I mis-spelled "pretty". It's a bad habit I have.

 

Some screenshots would probably also make it easier to understand the problem

 

Coming up, if I can do that correctly....

Edited July 22, 2011 by Allannaa

[amycus]

It will be easier if I answer everything in the quotation. I will use the color read so you find it easier.

 

I've never modded for oblivion, so I'm afraid I don't get half of your description. I do have some experience of 3ds max (and to a lesser extent of gmax). However, the black surfaces you describe, do you mean that when you import a mesh into gmax some of the polygons on it are black, with no visible texture?

 

Yes, I think we're talking the same thing. The model looks fine except for those black polygons.

 

If that's the case, it sounds like flipped normals (I've had a case of this sometimes while exporting and importing back to max). Just select the "black" weird polygons, and add a "normals" modifier and tha should fix it, making the texture visible again.

 

Okay, how do I do that? And... do you have any idea why it was NOT doing this yesterday, but is doing it suddenly? Did I change some global setting somewhere?

 

You select the object, right click and got to "convert to" --> "editable mesh", then go to the upper right corner with the lighter grey field. Press the "+" sight to the left of the word "editable mesh". Select "polygon". Now select all the weird black polygons (in gmax it might be a bit hard to see what polygons are selected unless you check the other viewports that just shows the wireframe). With those selected, go to the upper right and select the "modifier list". In the dropdown that shows, select "normals" (below the section of "mesh editing). The check the box "flip normals" that should appear to the lower right. That should fix the problem.

 

And yes, this does happen sometimes randomly when you export the mesh before hitting the "reset xform" button (available if you go to the upper right and press the hammer symbol)

 

Some screenshots would probably also make it easier to understand the problem

 

If I could figure out how to make Windows7 do a screen capture, I would. It's funny how little I seem to know about basic mechanics

 

To do a screen capture, press Ctrl + Alt + Prt Sc (Prt Sc can be found to the upper right of the keyboard. It also says "Sys Rq" right below on the same button). Then you can just past the screencap in whatever 2D tool you use (Ctrl + V)

 

If everything else fails, (assuming that you have gotten some other kind of error) you can try and redo those specific polygons. If they arent large sections sitting together it should be easy. The process below is also good to know when you make complex shapes like a human face.

 

Just select the black polygons, and press delete. Then to recreate them, right click the object and turn it to an editable poly again. Now however, press the "+" sign and choose "edge".Select any edge surrounding your new "holes", and use the move tool while pressing shift and drag the mouse towards the other side. A new polygon is created, but only one of the 4 sides will be connected.

 

To fix that, go to the upper right and select "vertex" instead of "edge". Now to the menu in the right, scroll down a bit until you find a button named "target" Go to the viewport, select 1 of the "loose" vertexes of the newly created polygons, and just drag it to the other vertex belonging to the hole that you wish to fill in. Do so for the other and the hole should be fixed.

 

Note that you might need to correct your UW map after this, so select the whole object again, and select "Unwrap UWV" from the list in the top right corner. In the menu to the lower right that appears, press "edit" and a new small window should pop up with your wireframe. Minimace it if needed, and select the new, "fixed" polygons (you should know how by now). This will also be selected in the pop up window of your UW map so you easily can fix that part if needed. Done, your textures should look okay now.

Edited July 22, 2011 by amycus

[Allannaa]

Amycus, you are really sweet to go to so much trouble to help, and I appreciate it no end.

 

Here are the screen captures.

 

(Alt Print Screen didn't work, I had to find some stupid snipping tool in Windows itself... what a headache)

 

This is GMax, starting out with the Import screen

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i384/AllannaaLassevanta/GM1.jpg

 

This is the imported NIF (Directly from Oblivion>Data>Meshes>Architecture>CastleInterior)

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i384/AllannaaLassevanta/GM2.jpg

 

This is the Export screen

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i384/AllannaaLassevanta/GM3.jpg

 

 

This is the TESCS (The Elder Scrolls Construction Set) user interface, specifically the "Render Window", showing the UNTOUCHED file above.

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i384/AllannaaLassevanta/TS1.jpg

 

And finally, this is the TESCS Render Window showing the file that was imported/exported with NO changes of any kind, from GMax

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i384/AllannaaLassevanta/TS2.jpg

 

You see what I mean? For some reason, GMax refused to recognise the texture for those two specific surfaces. I will try your trick for the Normals. Your explanation certainly looks easy to follow.

Edited July 22, 2011 by Allannaa

[amycus]

So, in you 2nd-3rd picture, is the same problem there? Or is it only when exporting it back that you get it (last pic)? In that case, try to reset the xform before you export it (also explained in my earlier post). I have personally only ever had this problem in max itself, but I've read that resetting the xform will prevent the mesh from getting that kind of error when exporting. Edited July 22, 2011 by amycus

[Allannaa]

The untouched Oblivion file opens in the construction set perfectly. It's the import to GMax, then export from GMax where I get this black surface thing.

 

I haven't done a single thing IN GMax -- just imported then immediately exported, no changes were made at all, except of course for giving it a name of its own. I didn't even click the mouse in a viewport window.

 

I'll try the XForm trick also.

 

 

 

 

And here's a shot of my dropdown menu -- I am not seeing what you told me, or am not understanding.

 

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i384/AllannaaLassevanta/dropdown.jpg

Edited July 22, 2011 by Allannaa

[amycus]

Go down 12 rows on that list from the top item thats already light in green. Its the one named "normal"

[Allannaa]

Oh boy... Okay, now that you point it out, I do see it, so I did it.

 

And, that wasn't the problem, apparently.

 

When I did that and exported it, I still got the blank black planes, they were just reversed.

 

Apparently the issue is the texures somehow. GMax isn't loading certain textures, but the funny thing is, it was doing so last night, perfectly.

 

Changing the normals worked exactly the way you said it would. But I guess that's not the trouble after all.

[amycus]

I see... I'm not sure why it does that (note I'm using the full 3ds max and have only modded for dragon age so far), but can you extract the missing texture files individually? Then you just need to reassign them to the now "untextured" part of the mesh. Pain in the *ss, I know, but that's the only idea I have for now.