Dualing in the streets!?

[Corakus]

I understand that you get no experience points for the Tavern brawls so I just wondered.

I'm not even sure if you can participate in the tavern brawls in the game, for all we know they might be ambient.Similar to how the Fighters Guild members would spar with each other in Oblivion, but if you tried to spar with them it counted as an assault, and here come the psychic guards.

 

That would imply that the brawlers would ignore the player, which would be utterly ridiculous. I doubt Bethesda would create a situation like that, they might as well have dragons wear clown hats then.

Why do you doubt Bethesda would do it?Like I said, the Fighters Guild members in Oblivion sparred without ever taking notice of the player, and so did the Blades at Cloud Ruler Temple, so why is it inconceivable that tavern brawlers would do the same?Don't get me wrong, I would love to get in tavern brawls as much as the next guy, I'm just saying it's not impossible for tavern brawls to be an ambient addition only.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Corakus

[Jagex]

I understand that you get no experience points for the Tavern brawls so I just wondered.

I'm not even sure if you can participate in the tavern brawls in the game, for all we know they might be ambient.Similar to how the Fighters Guild members would spar with each other in Oblivion, but if you tried to spar with them it counted as an assault, and here come the psychic guards.

 

I hope the guard situation's been fixed, I'm so sick of sniping someone, and then having guards automatically run up to me, despite not having seen me.

I've read the thing about how when you kill someone in sneak mode, every enemy NPC knows where you are instantly but goes into an alert mode. But I never thought about the guard factor. My guess: if you go near the body, everyone will assume it was you, sort of like "returning to the scene of the crime".

[Mansh00ter]

I understand that you get no experience points for the Tavern brawls so I just wondered.

I'm not even sure if you can participate in the tavern brawls in the game, for all we know they might be ambient.Similar to how the Fighters Guild members would spar with each other in Oblivion, but if you tried to spar with them it counted as an assault, and here come the psychic guards.

 

That would imply that the brawlers would ignore the player, which would be utterly ridiculous. I doubt Bethesda would create a situation like that, they might as well have dragons wear clown hats then.

Why do you doubt Bethesda would do it?Like I said, the Fighters Guild members in Oblivion sparred without ever taking notice of the player, and so did the Blades at Cloud Ruler Temple, so why is it inconceivable that tavern brawlers would do the same?Don't get me wrong, I would love to get in tavern brawls as much as the next guy, I'm just saying it's not impossible for tavern brawls to be an ambient addition only.

 

Because resident warriors sparring is not the same situation as everyone having a drunken fistfight. For one, sparring is a consensual activity, bar fighting is definitely not. Second, sparring is a tightly controlled practice fight, drunken bar fight is a violent chaos where everyone is trying to hit everyone else. It makes sense for sparring fighters to stand in corner and practice and ignore the player. How much sense does it make for every drunk wielding a chair (or whatever) in a brawl to magically ignore the player?

 

And thirdly, it would just be against every single convention out there. A full-on drunken brawl and the player can't participate? As I said, might as well have clown hats on dragons. If there are going to be tavern brawls in the game, I not only expect that the player can participate, I expect that the player will be able to start them as well.

[weed33]

I understand that you get no experience points for the Tavern brawls so I just wondered.

I'm not even sure if you can participate in the tavern brawls in the game, for all we know they might be ambient.Similar to how the Fighters Guild members would spar with each other in Oblivion, but if you tried to spar with them it counted as an assault, and here come the psychic guards.

 

That would imply that the brawlers would ignore the player, which would be utterly ridiculous. I doubt Bethesda would create a situation like that, they might as well have dragons wear clown hats then.

Why do you doubt Bethesda would do it?Like I said, the Fighters Guild members in Oblivion sparred without ever taking notice of the player, and so did the Blades at Cloud Ruler Temple, so why is it inconceivable that tavern brawlers would do the same?Don't get me wrong, I would love to get in tavern brawls as much as the next guy, I'm just saying it's not impossible for tavern brawls to be an ambient addition only.

Well a lot of things have changed and this is most definitely not oblivion, that's why

[Corakus]

I understand that you get no experience points for the Tavern brawls so I just wondered.

I'm not even sure if you can participate in the tavern brawls in the game, for all we know they might be ambient.Similar to how the Fighters Guild members would spar with each other in Oblivion, but if you tried to spar with them it counted as an assault, and here come the psychic guards.

 

That would imply that the brawlers would ignore the player, which would be utterly ridiculous. I doubt Bethesda would create a situation like that, they might as well have dragons wear clown hats then.

Why do you doubt Bethesda would do it?Like I said, the Fighters Guild members in Oblivion sparred without ever taking notice of the player, and so did the Blades at Cloud Ruler Temple, so why is it inconceivable that tavern brawlers would do the same?Don't get me wrong, I would love to get in tavern brawls as much as the next guy, I'm just saying it's not impossible for tavern brawls to be an ambient addition only.

 

Because resident warriors sparring is not the same situation as everyone having a drunken fistfight. For one, sparring is a consensual activity, bar fighting is definitely not. Second, sparring is a tightly controlled practice fight, drunken bar fight is a violent chaos where everyone is trying to hit everyone else. It makes sense for sparring fighters to stand in corner and practice and ignore the player. How much sense does it make for every drunk wielding a chair (or whatever) in a brawl to magically ignore the player?

 

And thirdly, it would just be against every single convention out there. A full-on drunken brawl and the player can't participate? As I said, might as well have clown hats on dragons. If there are going to be tavern brawls in the game, I not only expect that the player can participate, I expect that the player will be able to start them as well.

No, I don't believe this, everything you say is true, but it still doesn't mean that it couldn't be ambient.Just because you expect something to work a certain way in a game, or want it too, doesn't mean it will.It wouldn't be the first time Bethesda disappointed people by not fleshing out a certain feature, or not allowing enough NPC interaction in the game.But this argument is getting tiresome, and we're getting off-topic.Clearly we both have our different opinions and I don't think we will get far by trying to force them on each other.

[billyro]

This drunken brawl and sparring conversation can be summed up in Oblivion by the pyschic guards who always go for the player. Drunken brawls would be possible if the guards came to break up the fight, but not by rushing directly to the player and asking them to pay a fine. Guards should try to remove most dangerous person from the brawl or the closest person, not the player (unless he is the closest or most dangerous) and then move onto the other people. I would think that Skyrim will have smarter guards, but not really. The only thing that comes to account with the guards is the players's crime gold, and the player's crime gold ONLY.

 

As for the sparring, it's not really sparring if the player thinks "Lets spar with this guy" then pulls out a sword and chops him. The other person would think "Holy cow! This guy is attacking me!" and then fight back viciously. This would result in a ban from the guild. If the sparring was conversation initiated, then there would be no excuse to get expelled from the guild. "Lets spar with this guy, hey guy over there, want to spar?" "Yeah." "Ok then" and that's when you can battle freely.

[Mansh00ter]

If you guys remember, back in Morrowind, it was possible to inflict Fatigue damage by hitting someone barehanded - granted such fights would always result in someone getting knocked unconscious and then getting kicked to death, but non-lethal damage is certainly possible. FNV also has it.

 

I imagine it is possible to set an "exclusion zone" if a drunken brawl is initiated, either by the player or by other circumstances, where guards do not interfere. Then, several scenarios could be possible - either let it last until the last man standing, end it as soon as the player is knocked unconscious, let it last for a certain amount of time etc. If somebody (i.e. the player) draws a lethal weapon and starts hitting people, guards come in and haul them away.

 

So, this topic is about dueling in the streets. That's very similar to "mass dueling" in taverns. If you can have the first, you can have the second as well. Obviously you need a separate rule set for either to work and not be recognized by the game AI as ordinary combat.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Mansh00ter