What is wring with the American Educational system

[Sync182]

*looks at thread title*

 

Well...spelling & grammar seems to be a problem... ;)

 

What is wring with the American Educational system

 

Last time I checked, "wrong" had an "o" in it. And questions ended with a ? :tongue:

 

 

I guess you missed post #3 in this thread.

 

Yup...totally didn't read the thread, given that, as an Australian, I'm not qualified to discuss the merits and flaws of the American system. :)

[marharth]

I would argue against teaching music and art in schools.

 

I don't see art and music as something you need for your life, and it takes away time from other courses.

Fair enough, however your argument would probably fail.

 

Art might not be something you need to create in your daily life, but I'd scarcely say that I could do without it in mine, nor would I want to live in a world without it. As a graphic designer, it's been invaluable to me to have an early understanding of color theory and composition. After all, not everybody aspires to be a calculator when they grow up. http://www.thenexusforums.com/public/style_emoticons/dark/laugh.gif

 

At any rate, I guess you failed to comprehend the part where I wrote that such courses would be elective-only, along side other courses that don't apply to everybody's daily lives, such as trig, calc, soc, phys ed, et cetera.

Honestly I don't see it needed to spend school funding on elective only art programs.

 

We live in a age where you can learn about that stuff without the need of a school.

 

This is by far the most arrogant thing you have posted Marharth.

 

Art is freedom of expression, it opens your mind to new worlds and insights to view the universe from more than one perspective. It allows one to vent from a creative outlet in life and helps with healthy mental function. It brings forth ideas and allows the one who is being enriched not only culturally, but spiritually, to question life and get the answers they will need to move on. I can understand art at least to some degree, but no music? That is an outrageous thing to even consider. Music is a VERY important thing in humanity, it's been with us for as long as civilization first rose from those sands in Mesopotamia. It is like a drug, it's addictive and inpowering and can influence what you do and how you act. I feel sorry for those who don't partake into one of life's greatest gifts. Eat what goldren fruit you are given.

 

Remember that teenagers need outlets, they need to breathe and they need to run, they need to expand and they need to spread their wings and fly. They need outlets to express themselves and to be the best they can. Removing this from the educational system is not only foolish and ignorant, but it is also suicidal, especially in America's case, both because we are a melting pot and because we can't afford to suffer another blow to the books. Plus, school is the best place to learn these two because teachers influence our lives in education more than anyone else in our lives will, therefore, it increases the chance of a healthy and balanced life from the benefits that they can give a person. Take it from an artist, your idea would kill culture, and culture is what civilization is. Take it away, and you've got yourself something more unstable than the French Republic has been up until recently. Art and music is certainly not pointless. It is fundemental and necessary in the school system.

I didn't say art and music were pointless, I said they have no need to be funded by pubic money.

 

Kids already know basics about music when they grow up simply through culture. I don't see any reason for everyone to need to know how to play a trumpet.

 

I know how to play the piano and read music, school had nothing to do with it despite music classes. I doubt most of the music and art education comes from schools honestly. Seems to me it simply comes from everyday life and has nothing to do with the education system.

[myrmaad]

Well, I have no direct experience with the American educational system (and after reading through these posts, I must say I am inclined to consider myself lucky), but I found a good read a few years ago that may give some food for thought:

 

James W. Loewen - Lies my teacher told me

 

It's about history taught in high school in the US. This book focuses on the criticism of how history is taught but the author wrote another book where he presents his solution, and he even wrote an updated textbook that does not try to glorify the past to instil patriotism based on a whitewashed version of past events.

 

This is a quote from one of the comments on Amazon.com (rebuking the 'most helpful critical review' claiming that the author does not offer a solution):

"Dr. Loewen has actually written a replacement high school textbook for Mississippi; "Mississippi: Conflict and Change" (1974). He tried to bring it into circulation, but was denied by the state textbook purchasing committee. The case was brought to supreme court where he won his case. Reference for the court case: Loewen v. Turnipseed, 488 F. Supp. 1138 (N.D. Miss. 1980). His textbook was taught in the Mississippi public schools for several years."

 

Apparently, there are attempts to fix the system and there are roadblocks that try to thwart those attempts. The question is: why? Lack of money? Political or business interests?

 

Note that with the most schools and thus the highest purchasing power, Texas dictates which books will be used by the rest of the nation's public schools.

 

I have the book you mentioned, have had for years. If there's anything specific you're interested in, let me know.

 

I'm a product of both public and private education, but that was in the 70s, thank goodness.

[Kuraikiba]

I would actually say that art would be a good idea as a class. Imagination, as far as I have observed, makes the mind sharper and makes it remain active. Generally, I am able to think more clearly, quicker, and more flawlessly when in an imaginative state, where I have limits on my mind in non creative thought. It almost seems like imagination is what keeps the mind working, as I have noticed many of the more brilliant thinkers of history were also creative. Imagination keeps the mind alive, the death of the former ensures that of the latter.

 

Now, art also gives fine motor skills, something of near neurotic obsession with most. So it gives things, if not just in mind.

[Deleted472477User]

*looks at thread title*

 

Well...spelling & grammar seems to be a problem... ;)

 

What is wring with the American Educational system

 

Last time I checked, "wrong" had an "o" in it. And questions ended with a ? :tongue:

 

 

I guess you missed post #3 in this thread.

 

I've noticed that if you're trying to have an intelligent discussion, some people will immediately jump on typos to the exclusion of anything worthy in the post. Ignore them, and carry on.

[Keanumoreira]

I would argue against teaching music and art in schools.

 

I don't see art and music as something you need for your life, and it takes away time from other courses.

Fair enough, however your argument would probably fail.

 

Art might not be something you need to create in your daily life, but I'd scarcely say that I could do without it in mine, nor would I want to live in a world without it. As a graphic designer, it's been invaluable to me to have an early understanding of color theory and composition. After all, not everybody aspires to be a calculator when they grow up. http://www.thenexusforums.com/public/style_emoticons/dark/laugh.gif

 

At any rate, I guess you failed to comprehend the part where I wrote that such courses would be elective-only, along side other courses that don't apply to everybody's daily lives, such as trig, calc, soc, phys ed, et cetera.

Honestly I don't see it needed to spend school funding on elective only art programs.

 

We live in a age where you can learn about that stuff without the need of a school.

 

This is by far the most arrogant thing you have posted Marharth.

 

Art is freedom of expression, it opens your mind to new worlds and insights to view the universe from more than one perspective. It allows one to vent from a creative outlet in life and helps with healthy mental function. It brings forth ideas and allows the one who is being enriched not only culturally, but spiritually, to question life and get the answers they will need to move on. I can understand art at least to some degree, but no music? That is an outrageous thing to even consider. Music is a VERY important thing in humanity, it's been with us for as long as civilization first rose from those sands in Mesopotamia. It is like a drug, it's addictive and inpowering and can influence what you do and how you act. I feel sorry for those who don't partake into one of life's greatest gifts. Eat what goldren fruit you are given.

 

Remember that teenagers need outlets, they need to breathe and they need to run, they need to expand and they need to spread their wings and fly. They need outlets to express themselves and to be the best they can. Removing this from the educational system is not only foolish and ignorant, but it is also suicidal, especially in America's case, both because we are a melting pot and because we can't afford to suffer another blow to the books. Plus, school is the best place to learn these two because teachers influence our lives in education more than anyone else in our lives will, therefore, it increases the chance of a healthy and balanced life from the benefits that they can give a person. Take it from an artist, your idea would kill culture, and culture is what civilization is. Take it away, and you've got yourself something more unstable than the French Republic has been up until recently. Art and music is certainly not pointless. It is fundemental and necessary in the school system.

I didn't say art and music were pointless, I said they have no need to be funded by pubic money.

 

Kids already know basics about music when they grow up simply through culture. I don't see any reason for everyone to need to know how to play a trumpet.

 

I know how to play the piano and read music, school had nothing to do with it despite music classes. I doubt most of the music and art education comes from schools honestly. Seems to me it simply comes from everyday life and has nothing to do with the education system.

 

Well, you'd be surprised of how wrong that can be.

[draconix]

I don't see art and music as something you need for your life, and it takes away time from other courses.

I didn't say art and music were pointless, I said they have no need to be funded by pubic money.Kids already know basics about music when they grow up simply through culture. I don't see any reason for everyone to need to know how to play a trumpet.

I know how to play the piano and read music, school had nothing to do with it despite music classes. I doubt most of the music and art education comes from schools honestly. Seems to me it simply comes from everyday life and has nothing to do with the education system.

Well, actually, you pretty much outright said that music and art aren't something we need in our lives... At any rate, the part where you mentioned "everyone" knowing how to play a trumpet is a total straw-man. Not everyone needs to know how to play a trumpet, but should someone be musically enclined, and choose to play a trumpet, then there is merit in having the opportunity to learn it. I learned how to play an instrument, and read sheet music in public school, and so did everybody else that chose to participate in band or orchestra classes. So Maybe most of it is honed outside of school, but you can't deny that the people taking said classes are learning.

[marharth]

I don't see art and music as something you need for your life, and it takes away time from other courses.

I didn't say art and music were pointless, I said they have no need to be funded by pubic money.Kids already know basics about music when they grow up simply through culture. I don't see any reason for everyone to need to know how to play a trumpet.

I know how to play the piano and read music, school had nothing to do with it despite music classes. I doubt most of the music and art education comes from schools honestly. Seems to me it simply comes from everyday life and has nothing to do with the education system.

Well, actually, you pretty much outright said that music and art aren't something we need in our lives... At any rate, the part where you mentioned "everyone" knowing how to play a trumpet is a total straw-man. Not everyone needs to know how to play a trumpet, but should someone be musically enclined, and choose to play a trumpet, then there is merit in having the opportunity to learn it. I learned how to play an instrument, and read sheet music in public school, and so did everybody else that chose to participate in band or orchestra classes. So Maybe most of it is honed outside of school, but you can't deny that the people taking said classes are learning.

My point is that if its optional, why put it in the school system?

 

If you want to learn how to play a instrument you can learn that on your own and take music classes out of school.

[Kuraikiba]

Quit whinging about the art! For goodness sake, no one in my school takes it, and they STILL barely can read and write!

[HeyYou]

What about choir? Team sports? Various shop classes? Is everyone going to need to know how to make a stool? No? Does that mean we should stop offering that class as well?

 

There is something to all this nonsense about "a well-rounded education". Presenting a developing mind with alternative ways to express itself is indeed a good thing..... Or, should we go back to the one room schoolhouse, and just teach readin', writin', and 'rithmatic??

 

I have seen high school GRADUATES that needed someone to read the questions from the test to get their drivers license, and no, they were not mentally impaired, they just never bothered to learn anything in school, but, surprisingly enough, graduated anyway.

 

Schools WASTE boatloads of money..... We have a fine example less than 20 miles away. Seems back when the economy was doing fairly well, they built themselves a nice new high school. Well, the old football field was still over at the (now) middle school, and the bleachers needed some work. (keep in mind, that at this point, the economy was RAPIDLY declining, and the housing bubble had just burst......) Their solution? Spend multiple ten's of thousands of dollars to bulldoze the old bleachers, and spend another 2.5 MILLION building a NEW football stadium..... think that's bad? Just you wait... there's more...... The original designs of that brand new stadium, which the voters turned down TWICE, and the school board went ahead and built it anyway...... didn't have any bathrooms..... the school boards brilliant solution? Build yet another building for concessions, and bathrooms. For another couple hundred thousand dollars..... oddly enough, they didn't have the money to do that, but, got it started anyway..... and decided "if we build it, they will come"...... (enrollment was declining as well, so, their funding was declining along with it.) They tried yet again to pass a millage (tax) to finish it. The people voted it down. They solicited folks that regularly donated money to the schools. Got some, but, so far as I know, two years later, that building STILL isn't finished. What's even funnier? The people of that community had a school board election.... AND PUT THE SAME PEOPLE BACK IN.

 

So, what's wrong with american education? Americans. That's what's wrong. Their are individuals out there that are pretty damn smart, have a clue, and occasionally speak their minds, but, get a large crowd of us together, and collectively, we got nothin' on a box of rocks. We continue to exhibit the same old behaviors, but, expect a different outcome "this time"...... Congress is a PERFECT example of this.

Edited August 1, 2011 by HeyYou