Moderating Suggestions

[ohGr]

hmm, there was more to my post, probably didnt get through, and it made sence, nevertheless.

 

i do apologise for criticising the moderators hard work put into this site and the admin, of course, no i am not brown nosing, and i never will, i do realise that i took my ability to do stupid things too far, and have realised that was stupid, it will never happen again.

 

on topic

 

there really isnt much to change, everything is fine as it seems, well, probably deleting those locked threads, no point in being there if their locked i guess.

[Vamp_Roland]

Not only necromancy, Switcheroo. It stops ten people posting the same answer. There are a couple of threads going that way at the moment methinks!

Malichiks right it does stop people from answering the question several times. So you should close the post when the question is answered but maybe send a pm to the starter and ask or something. When ever my questions answered i ask the for the thread to be locked i think others should do the sam to stop necromancy

[Blackmage]

Hm... I've been trolling these boards for the past few weeks, posting sporadically, and mostly just observing the going ons around here. I might have a suggestion that will probably be thrown out immediatly, but if you've got the patience, hear me out (or read me out, whichever works).

 

Now, I've noticed that the mods here are more or less forum nazi's. No offense intended, of course. I realize that they were probably coached by Dark0ne himself, but in my honest opinion, things are taken entirely too serious around here.

 

For example, when a thread goes even the slightest bit off topic, it's either closed or the Mods post saying that the thread is offtopic and then they attempt to steer it back on subject. While the latter is a good way to go about it, I don't believe either should be taken to the extreme that it is. Half the fun of a message board is seeing where conversation's can take you. If you start out talking about one thing, and then let it grow until you're talking about something completly diffrent, then why stop that? It stimulates forum growth and makes the members much less grouchy and resentful to the mods.

 

Also, while I'm on this subject, I don't think that if a mod tells someone to keep it on subject, and then the offending member goes out and creates his own topic, one can assume that it will be closed or the member will get a warning. While in some cases, such as those of spam and flames, warning and closing/deleting topics would be the proper way to go about it, in other cases, what's the harm in letting it go on?

 

Keep with me, I'm not done yet ^_^

 

Now, the other thing about this forum that really irks me is the amount of topics closed, the only response being "Use the search button". I encourage the mods to realize that many people are just getting the game and are asking these questions because they want quick help. While searching could yield good advice and fast help, it's only if you know how to use the search tool. I just did a search on deleting spells from the spellbook, and it took me about 15 minutes to get everything right before I could find the answer I needed. The search tool is something that would be very frustrating to a new member that just wants to be accepted into your forums.

 

Which is something else... I am a self proclaimed forum junkie. One of my first goals when I join a new forum is to make a slight name for myself... let people know who I am by being a good member and posting helpful and insightful things. However, I find it very hard to do when I see a topic that I can answer, but it's closed. You see, the mod team you have here aren't the only ones that can provide answers. The beautiful thing about public forums is that new members are joining all the time, and that these new members will soon become seasoned members, and they will help the newer members. When you have the Old members and Mod teams simply locking topics every time they see something that was answered 6 months ago, the new members become ghosts on these boards, trolling in hope of finding the answers to their questions, and never making a name for themselves. I've posted here for a few months now, plus a few months at the old forums, and I doubt many know who I am.

 

Now, I'm not just here to point out all your guys's problems... I have alternetives that you may or may not want to try. It's up to you... All I know is I don't want to come here and tell you guys how to do your jobs. On any of the other forums I mod, I know that if a newbie came to me and demanded that I change the way I do things, I would probably ban the crap out of him :P But I'm a b*stard like that. So keep in mind that these are merely suggestions, not demands.

 

First off, the mods need to really loosen up. Rather than close a topic immediatly after the question has been answered, let it go and see what happens. Older members will stay away from it, because they already know everything, and newer members will be able to learn from each other, and thus become wiser in the ways of Morrowind.

 

Secondly, if it's at all possible with this software, the Admin(s) should set up a system so that when a new person signs up, he or she recieves a PM that describes the search tool, and maybe even answer some of the more FAQs.

 

That's all I can think of right now... And I'm pressed for time. Thanks for reading this, if you did!

 

 

Edit: Ah, now that I have a bit more free time, there's one other thing I wanted to add.

 

I read through the other posts more in depth here and I noticed one or two mentions of thread necromancy. This can easily be prevented. In almost all forum software, you can have it auto delete topics after they get, say, 6 months old. While this may come as a blow to the older and more nostalgic members who want to relive the past as much as they can, but not only does it prevent rezzing, it also frees up server space, and in most cases, money for the site owner. Just a thought... of course, with this you guys might have your work cut out for you... you won't be able to tell newbies to refer to older topics ^^

[Peregrine]

For example, when a thread goes even the slightest bit off topic, it's either closed or the Mods post saying that the thread is offtopic and then they attempt to steer it back on subject. While the latter is a good way to go about it, I don't believe either should be taken to the extreme that it is. Half the fun of a message board is seeing where conversation's can take you. If you start out talking about one thing, and then let it grow until you're talking about something completly diffrent, then why stop that? It stimulates forum growth and makes the members much less grouchy and resentful to the mods.

 

We have an off-topic forum for a reason. Use it. And the button for a new thread is right next to the one for a new reply. Use it.

 

Of course this assumes you've got something useful to say. If your "new subject" isn't worth a new thread, it's spam. Save me the trouble of banning you and just leave.

 

Also, while I'm on this subject, I don't think that if a mod tells someone to keep it on subject, and then the offending member goes out and creates his own topic, one can assume that it will be closed or the member will get a warning. While in some cases, such as those of spam and flames, warning and closing/deleting topics would be the proper way to go about it, in other cases, what's the harm in letting it go on?

 

No, if it's a valid topic I'm not going to punish anyone for starting a new thread. That's the whole point of telling them to put it elsewhere!

 

And the harm is the lack of organization. It annoys the thread starters, it annoys people who are looking for information, and it annoys me. Post in the correct place.

 

Now, the other thing about this forum that really irks me is the amount of topics closed, the only response being "Use the search button". I encourage the mods to realize that many people are just getting the game and are asking these questions because they want quick help. While searching could yield good advice and fast help, it's only if you know how to use the search tool. I just did a search on deleting spells from the spellbook, and it took me about 15 minutes to get everything right before I could find the answer I needed. The search tool is something that would be very frustrating to a new member that just wants to be accepted into your forums.

 

Your point? If you're too lazy to try to answer your questions yourself, you don't deserve an answer. And in a lot of these cases, the answer is extremely obvious and could be found with almost no effort. Example, the "how do i get to tribunal?" posts.

 

Which is something else... I am a self proclaimed forum junkie. One of my first goals when I join a new forum is to make a slight name for myself... let people know who I am by being a good member and posting helpful and insightful things. However, I find it very hard to do when I see a topic that I can answer, but it's closed. You see, the mod team you have here aren't the only ones that can provide answers. The beautiful thing about public forums is that new members are joining all the time, and that these new members will soon become seasoned members, and they will help the newer members.

 

Your point? If a topic is locked, the question has been answered. There's nothing more you can post. They have a word for "posting to make a name for yourself". It's called SPAM.

 

When you have the Old members and Mod teams simply locking topics every time they see something that was answered 6 months ago, the new members become ghosts on these boards, trolling in hope of finding the answers to their questions, and never making a name for themselves. I've posted here for a few months now, plus a few months at the old forums, and I doubt many know who I am.

 

Your point? If they don't have anything productive to say, their "contributions" won't be missed...

 

Now, I'm not just here to point out all your guys's problems... I have alternetives that you may or may not want to try. It's up to you... All I know is I don't want to come here and tell you guys how to do your jobs. On any of the other forums I mod, I know that if a newbie came to me and demanded that I change the way I do things, I would probably ban the crap out of him  But I'm a b*stard like that. So keep in mind that these are merely suggestions, not demands.

 

Suggetstions that have been made many times in the past, and that have been answered just as many times. If you'd read the other threads, you'd see that these things are not going to change.

 

First off, the mods need to really loosen up. Rather than close a topic immediatly after the question has been answered, let it go and see what happens. Older members will stay away from it, because they already know everything, and newer members will be able to learn from each other, and thus become wiser in the ways of Morrowind.

 

Or not. Once a question has been answered, there is nothing useful left to say. Posting more in that thread is simple spam. Either that, or thread hijacking.

 

Secondly, if it's at all possible with this software, the Admin(s) should set up a system so that when a new person signs up, he or she recieves a PM that describes the search tool, and maybe even answer some of the more FAQs.

 

Finally, a good suggestion. This has been mentioned before, but I don't know if it is even possible to do it.

 

I read through the other posts more in depth here and I noticed one or two mentions of thread necromancy. This can easily be prevented. In almost all forum software, you can have it auto delete topics after they get, say, 6 months old. While this may come as a blow to the older and more nostalgic members who want to relive the past as much as they can, but not only does it prevent rezzing, it also frees up server space, and in most cases, money for the site owner. Just a thought... of course, with this you guys might have your work cut out for you... you won't be able to tell newbies to refer to older topics ^^

 

Of course it's easy to do that. But then searching becomes pointless because the answers have already been deleted. And thread necromancy isn't just 6 months.... even a month is too old a dead topic to revive without a significant contribution. If we deleted everything after a month, there'd be nothing left, and we'd be forced to keep bumping all the useful threads to keep them from being deleted.

[Blackmage]

Thank you for the response Peregrine. However... negative it may be. I would also like to hear from the other mods around here, particularly (forgive me if I spelled it wrong, I'm bad in the memory department) Malchik. I ask him to post in response because he is the only one that has actually responded to me in a decent manner that made me not feel like the Mods were trying to wave their power around and look powerful for the 12 post count members.

 

But I ask you peregrine, what is so wrong with "thread hijacking"? Like I said, that's the reason people come to message boards, beacsue they want to post things and learn more about the game. And you'd be surprised how many intresting subjects come up within "off topic" posts. I've gotten the feeling that many of you actually view post counts as status symbols, when you really shouldnt. In my experiance, the only ones who care about post counts are usually horrid members that enjoy spam.

 

And I ask you not to speak to me as an inferior. Asking me "What's your point?' as a response to half of my questions isn't a way to get your point across.

 

I think the main issue I'm having here is the lack of topics that are posted in the actual MW forums. I enjoy reading and responding to topics, but it seems that I'm a few months too late for that, because 90% of the questions asked already have answers to them, and the Mod team seems to like INactivity rather than a bustling busy forum.

 

The major conflict, in my mind, is the diffrence of communities. I come from several boards that are focused on games that one can play online, rather than single player, so I think the communities are a tad bit diffrent. Rather than discuss strategies and such, the community of a single player game seems to focus more on "where is this" and "how do I do that" questions. I can see where this can get annoying to the mods, but to the members that want answers, this method of closing and directing to older topics is very frustrating.

 

While I can see the Mod team's point of view, I'm arguing from a member's perspective. Because as I've always said about forums, it's not the Mods and Admins that make up the board... its the members. The mods and admins are there to make sure that all members have fun and flaming / spam isn't present.

[Peregrine]

But I ask you peregrine, what is so wrong with "thread hijacking"? Like I said, that's the reason people come to message boards, beacsue they want to post things and learn more about the game. And you'd be surprised how many intresting subjects come up within "off topic" posts.

 

The new thread button is right next to the new reply button. Use it. Or if it's completely irrelevant, post it in the off topic forum.

 

Nobody's saying you can't post all your interesting new discussions. Just put them in the right place.

 

I've gotten the feeling that many of you actually view post counts as status symbols, when you really shouldnt. In my experiance, the only ones who care about post counts are usually horrid members that enjoy spam.

 

I don't care about post count. I bring down the wrath of mod just as hard no matter who it is. 1000 posts or 10, I'm not making exceptions for the rules. Not my fault most of the people who ignore the rules have low post counts....

 

And I ask you not to speak to me as an inferior. Asking me "What's your point?' as a response to half of my questions isn't a way to get your point across.

 

I ask that because your complaints have no point. Example:

 

"When you have the Old members and Mod teams simply locking topics every time they see something that was answered 6 months ago, the new members become ghosts on these boards, trolling in hope of finding the answers to their questions, and never making a name for themselves."

 

If they don't have anything more than "where is place x" to contribute, they won't be missed. Even if we are keeping them from posting, that's a good thing.

 

I think the main issue I'm having here is the lack of topics that are posted in the actual MW forums. I enjoy reading and responding to topics, but it seems that I'm a few months too late for that, because 90% of the questions asked already have answers to them, and the Mod team seems to like INactivity rather than a bustling busy forum.

 

Who cares. I don't miss the "where is place x" threads one bit. Those aren't interesting anyway.

 

The major conflict, in my mind, is the diffrence of communities. I come from several boards that are focused on games that one can play online, rather than single player, so I think the communities are a tad bit diffrent. Rather than discuss strategies and such, the community of a single player game seems to focus more on "where is this" and "how do I do that" questions. I can see where this can get annoying to the mods, but to the members that want answers, this method of closing and directing to older topics is very frustrating.

 

It wouldn't be frustrating if people would bother looking for their own answers before posting and expecting someone else to do it for them. Most of the locked questions could be answered in 5 min with the forum search or google. If you're too lazy to at least try before you post, you get zero sympathy from me.

 

While I can see the Mod team's point of view, I'm arguing from a member's perspective. Because as I've always said about forums, it's not the Mods and Admins that make up the board... its the members. The mods and admins are there to make sure that all members have fun and flaming / spam isn't present.

 

Perfect, then we're all happy. We do our job and get rid of the spam. Any additional posts in those locked threads could be nothing but spam.

[Vamp_Roland]

I agree with Peregrine, thread hijacking is spam use the off topic zone or create a new thread.

 

And lighten up dude, ive been here for a while now and i have never seen a desision made by a mod that was unfair. Unless it was a mistake and then it was apoligized for and corrected.

because he is the only one that has actually responded to me in a decent manner that made me not feel like the Mods were trying to wave their power around and look powerful for the 12 post count members.

ok i have never seen a mod abuse their power, or show off with it. So quit disrespecting our mods. I mean Peregrine completely pointed out the was was wrong with your comments and suggestions and since you can deal with the bad news you want another chance to get a good review. Well im pretty sure Malchik will back Peregrine up on this one and so will every other mod.

[Malchik]

I will reply, though I have nothing to add to Peregrine's response. He has a more acerbic delivery than I do most of the time but this is not his attempt to be superior IMO.

 

The rule on thread necromancy is as follows. If the poster has something new and valuable to add it doesn't matter how old the thread is when the new post is added. However, to repeat what has already been said is spam, to change the topic is hijacking. Whilst hijacking can sometimes happen unintentionally in current topics it can hardly be accidental where necromancy is concerned. If it is a newby error we tend only to give a warning to prevent the same situation arising again. Furthermore I almost always PM a newby when such a thing happens explaining very clearly why the comment was made and how to avoid the same thing happening again.

 

Thread hijacking occurs quite often. If it is completely off-topic IMO it merits removal with the request to start another thread (or more likely, use the search button). Again with newbies I will PM the reason. Those who ignore my polite requests are slated for a strike. If the hijacking question is worth making, then it is worth its own thread. If it is not, it is spam. Whichever way you look at it, it should not be in a thread on a totally different subject. If someone gets a new idea while posting in an existing thread there is no harm in making a cross-reference to the new one and so keeping a level of continuity.

 

If the hijacking is more a general drift away from the topic, we remind people what the thread is supposed to be about. I believe we are usually polite when we do so. If two people want to hold a discussion on their country of origin it is not appropriate in a thread entitled 'are there witches in Morrowind' or whatever. That kind of discussion should be in the chat room, via PM or other means or in the thread 'where are you from folks?' The alternative is deletion and we do try to avoid that where possible.

 

Locking is done generally when a thread has been answered and there is nothing more that could be added sensibly. I locked one recently after I had been away for a couple of days and we had posts saying the same thing and two that were spam. At the time I noted that it was an excellent example of why such threads should not be left open. But we always point out that we will reopen a thread if there is a valid new information to be added. If you have have valid new info to add to such locked threads, however old, PM me and I'll willingly reopen them.

 

As you point out, this is not a forum about an on-line game. Many questions have been asked and answered, that is the nature of the beast. Peregrine is absolutely right to say most threads are locked when there is nothing new that can be added.

 

Occasionally we lock threads that are becoming inflamed. That is IMO the best thing to do.

 

Finally on the use of the search button. There are people on this forum who will happily post the same comment in identical threads started within a few days of each other. To discourage this I will lock a thread if it is a repeat of a recent topic. There was one three weeks ago that was only two lines further down in the forum. I feel posters have a duty to attempt a search and certainly to eyeball the first page of the forum. (Again with newbies I PM them an explanation if I lock their thread). But otherwise we tend to be lenient. We know that the interesting spellings adopted by many forum members, not to mention typos and language differences, means the search approach is not infallible. Many times we comment that there are other threads but don't lock them.

 

Anyway, that is my own take on how it works. It's a lot more verbose than Peregrine but comes to the same conclusion. I'm surprised that you thought I might feel differently.

 

Yes I agree that it would be useful if newbies had an automatic explanation of the search and edit functions. It has been raised with the powers that be but may not be practical (outside my bailiwick anyway).

 

If you'd like to reopen locked threads let us know which ones. I am sure you would only do so to add something of value and we have no problem with that.

 

I can't say I like being compared to a Nazi, even in jest. I played an SS major on stage last year and I don't think I'm anything like that. And we were not coached by Dark0ne. We've had two requests in the whole time I've been a moderator IIRC. He asked us to be tolerant towards newbies and I believe we are. Then following the morality of God debate he asked us not to let debates get insulting or childish. Otherwise it's left to us. If I screw up I'll get a warning (hopefully not the boot for a first offence but they are his forums).

 

I don't find the rules Draconian or the moderators controlling and I didn't before I was a moderator.

 

Hope this answers your questions.

[thanateros]

Honestly I think that the mods here are doing a great job of keeping the forums free of spam but as of late I've certainly noticed how polarized the members and the mods in terms of the power structure of the forums. Maybe it's because you guys are swamped and have have to assert your authority with the textbook like responses you give everytime a post is locked. But IMO there are better ways to prortray a positive image of an authoritative figure.

 

Instead of slamming your literary fists on the table by the, "The search feature is there for a reason, use it. Thread Locked" response you should invite the poster to explore the wonderful features this site has to offer. The search feature is a great tool, but there should be a tutorial on how to use it to its maximum effect (I still haven't made full use of it). Also, the chat room needs to be publicized; it's there to be used and new members need to be made aware of it (as well as existing members who might not know about it). I think that would extremely cut down on the number of one question/one answer posts (if there was anyway to automatically load the chatroom when you sign on, in a new window, that would deffinetely help).

 

Furthmore, recent site news shouldn't be a forum (I think) it should be a brief paragraph at the top of the main forum menu so that everyone when they log on can see it (I know I'm getting slightly off topic, but the point is to make sure all members have access to important information, so everyone is one the same page persay).

 

I'm also interested if the mods have any complaints (other than the obvious ones) about the members that cause you to react the way you do to certain members/topics; so members too could use some constructive criticisms. Afterall, this community, though a power structure, is composed of people who all share in their interest for Morrowind and the people that the game draws. Everyone, at least, can agree about that.

[Peregrine]

Instead of slamming your literary fists on the table by the, "The search feature is there for a reason, use it. Thread Locked" response you should invite the poster to explore the wonderful features this site has to offer.

I try not to do that, unless either:

 

1) The poster is one with a history of poor posting, and isn't really worth the time to type out anything longer.

 

2) The question is such an obvious one that a few minuites with google/the search function would find it. Example, "how do i get to tribunal" or "can i play as aragorn and take the ring in memod?" type questions.

 

The search feature is a great tool, but there should be a tutorial on how to use it to its maximum effect (I still haven't made full use of it).

 

I agree, and it should be sent to everyone when they join. A lot of the poor posting is just laziness and expecting someone else to do your work for you, but I imagine some of them are because people honestly don't know how to search.

 

The problem is that they look exactly the same to an outside observer.

 

Also, the chat room needs to be publicized; it's there to be used and new members need to be made aware of it (as well as existing members who might not know about it). I think that would extremely cut down on the number of one question/one answer posts (if there was anyway to automatically load the chatroom when you sign on, in a new window, that would deffinetely help).

 

The chat room was a good idea, but a dead one it seems... after the first week it never really got any use. And the link seems to have disappeared from the main page, so does it even still exist?

 

I'm also interested if the mods have any complaints (other than the obvious ones) about the members that cause you to react the way you do to certain members/topics; so members too could use some constructive criticisms.

 

Mostly it's the people who don't think before posting. Won't name anyone specific, but you know who you are.... Take a few minuites to search/google for your answer before you make a new topic for it. Think about the usefullness of your post before you post one line spam that's just barely relevant enough that I can't delete it without thought. Read the entire thread you're posting in, especially in an rp thread/debate where it's critical that you know what's going on. Stuff like that... there's no excuse for completely laziness.