When is it okay to kill someone?

[Aurielius]

It really depends of a personal opinion.

 

For some it is, for others it isn't alright. It is much deeper then the people think and see it is. It's not the question only about morality, it is more of a psychological nature.

 

Let's take a couple of examples, shall we?

 

1. You're coming back home from work, where you find your family tied up by an armed burglar. He has an assault rifle in his hands and he fores you down to the floor.

The burglar makes it clear that he will kill all of you after he finishes with robbing your home. You remember that you have a gun in a drawer in a counter right next to the spot where you are being held as a hostage. The burglar turns his back on you and your family to fins some more rope to tie you up. The drawer is open, he didn't see that gun inside. What will you do?

Go for the weapon and empty the clip into his sorry ass.

 

2. You came out from a bar with your girl, went down to the dark alley where the parking lot is, and all of a sudden, 6 guys comes right at you, spitting, insulting and touching your girl in an inappropriate way. They are a bunch of low morality street thugs, possibly some gang members and they are armed with cold weaponry, a couple of knives and some steel chains. They seem tensed and they want to make you a problem, but you don't know are they in a kill mood or in a torture mood. You have a gun under your coat for protection. What will you do?

Put the young lady behind me, draw my weapon, inform them they have ten seconds to run like hell. If any or all remain, take out the most imminent threat first, working my way down to the lessor threats.

 

3. You are working for a huge company for 10 years and it is your turn to get promoted and to move to another city. You worked hard for all those years, and luxury of the new working place is at the top of your fingertips. More money, more comfort for your family members, 2 new cars, a big house and a dreamlike neighborhood. But there is a guy who is a son of the company's owner. He didn't have to work all those years, yet, he jumped in front of you to take your place. And he will get it, you know it, everyone is talking about it. As you went for a lunch break outside at the terrace, you see that guy right at the edge, being unaware that someone is behind him there. It's pretty tall building, you are standing at the 30th floor. 'Accidents' are possible, right? What will you do?

Absolutely nothing, except to say hello and "you might want to step back a pace or two".

 

 

4. You are a soldier. A man in a foreign, distant country is accused for all sorts of crime. All the news are talking about it, all the papers are writing about him, some sources are pulling out some proofs of his crimes, etc. But you feel it all shady, something doesn't seem to be right. You are being sent to hunt the man down. You fight your way through the hell of war, back and forth, then you pierce with your unit and enter his home. He is right there, and all of his family is sitting next to him, sons, daughters, wife and grandchildren. You have an order to shoot him on sight. The order that you must fulfill includes his children and wife. Only the grandchildren have to survive. Your best buddy next to you will rat you out to your sarge, if you don't do it. He is pushing you to do it. If not- court marshal is waiting for you. You look at the man and his family, right in the eyes and you must pick quickly. What will you do?

That is an illegal order in my country and I am not required to follow such directives, but I might report the SOB who gave it to someone higher in the chain of command or failing that to JAG and be a witness at his Court Martial.

 

5. You are running through the streets, there is a total collapse of the law enforcement in your city, strikes everywhere. Anarchy rules your world now. There are armed people everywhere, no food, lack of water and hospitals are empty. You find a poor man, innocent man, shot in the liver area, black blood is coming out of his stomach. He has exactly one hour or little less to live and he will die in a great pain and fear. You are feeling sorry for that old man. He begs you to help him, to relief his pain, because there is no hope for him. You have a gun on yourself. What will you do?

I won't pull the trigger but I might lend my weapon and let him choose.

 

6. You come into a store to buy a pack of ciggies , where you see a criminal with a shotgun, holding the clerks as hostages. You are right next to him and he threatens to you that he will shoot if you move. Then he focuses again to the clerks. You have a knife and he doesn't sees you good. What will you do?

Depends on whether he is threatening the clerks life or not, if simple robbery then nothing, if impending homicide then take him out.

 

 

7. You were asked for a fair fight, a fist fight by a very strong man, violent man. You can't escape it, everyone is watching you and they expect you to fight with him. You are in front of a club and he is preparing himself to attack you. He threatens to you that he will break every bone you have and that he will put you in a hospital for at least 6 months. You know that he is serious and that he done that before, so he is able to perform such an act. No one wants to call the cops and you don't have a cellphone. He is faster then you, so he will catch you if you try to run. But you have a big army knife on you. What will you do?

Pull the knife give him a chance to see that it isn't going to go the way he planned and that retreat is his best option, failing that cut one of leg tendons and retreat my self.

 

 

8. Some maniac killed your fiance, 2 days before the wedding, it happened 3-4 years ago. he was released by the authorities in a lack of evidence and lack of justice. All that mess left a scar on your heart and mind, you still can't sleep good after all that time that passed. You miss your fiance like crazy. You can't stop thinking about your fiance's death and being helpless in the hands of a terrible murderer. As you walk down the park to relax a bit, you see that guy, sitting at the bench, reading newspapers. You see a baseball bat nearby at the ground, some guys are hitting a round or two for fun. What will you do?

Break one or two of his knee caps then call the cops, he will never be walking without crutches again even if he ever gets out of jail.

 

9. The same maniac killed your fiance 2 days before the wedding, it happened 3-4 years ago. The law gave him justice for his act of crime, by sending him to a life sentence in prison. He never show remorse for what he did and his own girl came to defend him at the court as well. She is a junky and he is a drunkard, they are really bad couple, violent and hateful. After a couple of years, you walk down the park and you see his girl, who laughed at you in the courtroom, sitting on a bench, being high. She doesn't recognize you. You have a gun. What will you do?

Absolutely nothing, she didn't commit the crime and if she is a junky will be dead sooner or later without my assistance.

 

10. You have no proper education, therefore you don't have much chance to get a decent job. Your wife just gave a birth to a son/daughter. You can't support them enough for even the basic stuff, such as food. And you are in a great debt to the bank and loan sharks, as well. You live in a small town, where there is no jobs for you.

Though, the local prison is hiring people for a firing squads, to perform death penalties. It's the only job you have found, there is non around except that one. The money is good. Would you apply?

 

I would go to the next town down the road and so on until I found a job, then bring my family to live there.

 

Moranda

[grannywils]

Quick response to the answers provided to DariusMoranda's questions by both HeyYou and Aurielius. I am not surprised by any of your responses, and under the circumstances I feel you both chose the most honorable way out of the situations posed for you.

 

I read those and read those, and just could not bring myself to respond, but you gave the answers I wanted to give....

[Flintlockecole]

It really depends of a personal opinion.

 

For some it is, for others it isn't alright. It is much deeper then the people think and see it is. It's not the question only about morality, it is more of a psychological nature.

 

Let's take a couple of examples, shall we?

 

1. You're coming back home from work, where you find your family tied up by an armed burglar. He has an assault rifle in his hands and he fores you down to the floor.

The burglar makes it clear that he will kill all of you after he finishes with robbing your home. You remember that you have a gun in a drawer in a counter right next to the spot where you are being held as a hostage. The burglar turns his back on you and your family to fins some more rope to tie you up. The drawer is open, he didn't see that gun inside. What will you do?

Splatter his brains all over the wall, nuff said

2. You came out from a bar with your girl, went down to the dark alley where the parking lot is, and all of a sudden, 6 guys comes right at you, spitting, insulting and touching your girl in an inappropriate way. They are a bunch of low morality street thugs, possibly some gang members and they are armed with cold weaponry, a couple of knives and some steel chains. They seem tensed and they want to make you a problem, but you don't know are they in a kill mood or in a torture mood. You have a gun under your coat for protection. What will you do?

Give them five seconds to run.

3. You are working for a huge company for 10 years and it is your turn to get promoted and to move to another city. You worked hard for all those years, and luxury of the new working place is at the top of your fingertips. More money, more comfort for your family members, 2 new cars, a big house and a dreamlike neighborhood. But there is a guy who is a son of the company's owner. He didn't have to work all those years, yet, he jumped in front of you to take your place. And he will get it, you know it, everyone is talking about it. As you went for a lunch break outside at the terrace, you see that guy right at the edge, being unaware that someone is behind him there. It's pretty tall building, you are standing at the 30th floor. 'Accidents' are possible, right? What will you do?

Flip a coin

4. You are a soldier. A man in a foreign, distant country is accused for all sorts of crime. All the news are talking about it, all the papers are writing about him, some sources are pulling out some proofs of his crimes, etc. But you feel it all shady, something doesn't seem to be right. You are being sent to hunt the man down. You fight your way through the hell of war, back and forth, then you pierce with your unit and enter his home. He is right there, and all of his family is sitting next to him, sons, daughters, wife and grandchildren. You have an order to shoot him on sight. The order that you must fulfill includes his children and wife. Only the grandchildren have to survive. Your best buddy next to you will rat you out to your sarge, if you don't do it. He is pushing you to do it. If not- court marshal is waiting for you. You look at the man and his family, right in the eyes and you must pick quickly. What will you do?

Do the dirty deed, if I'm hired to kill someone why wouldn't I do it?

5. You are running through the streets, there is a total collapse of the law enforcement in your city, strikes everywhere. Anarchy rules your world now. There are armed people everywhere, no food, lack of water and hospitals are empty. You find a poor man, innocent man, shot in the liver area, black blood is coming out of his stomach. He has exactly one hour or little less to live and he will die in a great pain and fear. You are feeling sorry for that old man. He begs you to help him, to relief his pain, because there is no hope for him. You have a gun on yourself. What will you do?

He want's mercy, I'll give it to him.

6. You come into a store to buy a pack of ciggies , where you see a criminal with a shotgun, holding the clerks as hostages. You are right next to him and he threatens to you that he will shoot if you move. Then he focuses again to the clerks. You have a knife and he doesn't sees you good. What will you do?

Fatally stab him, the legal system is a sorry thing

7. You were asked for a fair fight, a fist fight by a very strong man, violent man. You can't escape it, everyone is watching you and they expect you to fight with him. You are in front of a club and he is preparing himself to attack you. He threatens to you that he will break every bone you have and that he will put you in a hospital for at least 6 months. You know that he is serious and that he done that before, so he is able to perform such an act. No one wants to call the cops and you don't have a cellphone. He is faster then you, so he will catch you if you try to run. But you have a big army knife on you. What will you do?

Stab and Twist, I have no time for cocky people

8. Some maniac killed your fiance, 2 days before the wedding, it happened 3-4 years ago. he was released by the authorities in a lack of evidence and lack of justice. All that mess left a scar on your heart and mind, you still can't sleep good after all that time that passed. You miss your fiance like crazy. You can't stop thinking about your fiance's death and being helpless in the hands of a terrible murderer. As you walk down the park to relax a bit, you see that guy, sitting at the bench, reading newspapers. You see a baseball bat nearby at the ground, some guys are hitting a round or two for fun. What will you do?

Rattle his brain a "little".

9. The same maniac killed your fiance 2 days before the wedding, it happened 3-4 years ago. The law gave him justice for his act of crime, by sending him to a life sentence in prison. He never show remorse for what he did and his own girl came to defend him at the court as well. She is a junky and he is a drunkard, they are really bad couple, violent and hateful. After a couple of years, you walk down the park and you see his girl, who laughed at you in the courtroom, sitting on a bench, being high. She doesn't recognize you. You have a gun. What will you do?

Go on with my day, she'll kill herself in a far more painful way than I ever could.

10. You have no proper education, therefore you don't have much chance to get a decent job. Your wife just gave a birth to a son/daughter. You can't support them enough for even the basic stuff, such as food. And you are in a great debt to the bank and loan sharks, as well. You live in a small town, where there is no jobs for you.

Though, the local prison is hiring people for a firing squads, to perform death penalties. It's the only job you have found, there is non around except that one. The money is good. Would you apply?

Why not, currency is currency no matter which way you look at it.

Moranda

[marharth]

Marharth asks: "Human life is valuable, but what if one human life stays in existence at the cost of many others?"

Marharth, My post had to do with whether or not I thought it was "okay" to kill someone. I do not believe it is okay to take a human life. That is my belief. The world if full of "what ifs". I do not have answers for all of them. I must follow my heart and stick with my beliefs and standards. As I also said in that post, I can not say for sure what I would actually do in many of the circumstances presented by some of the other posters. No one can be truly certain until it happens. I am nothing if not honest with myself about my humanity and my imperfection.

So you don't think it is okay to take a human life even if that human life is causing death to happen to others?

 

To everyone else, look outside of the box. What about someone who is costing others their life, yet is not directly affecting you? Such situations where you are directly connected to the person you would want to kill are rather simple to answer. What about situations where you are not directly affected?

[HeyYou]

Marharth asks: "Human life is valuable, but what if one human life stays in existence at the cost of many others?"

Marharth, My post had to do with whether or not I thought it was "okay" to kill someone. I do not believe it is okay to take a human life. That is my belief. The world if full of "what ifs". I do not have answers for all of them. I must follow my heart and stick with my beliefs and standards. As I also said in that post, I can not say for sure what I would actually do in many of the circumstances presented by some of the other posters. No one can be truly certain until it happens. I am nothing if not honest with myself about my humanity and my imperfection.

So you don't think it is okay to take a human life even if that human life is causing death to happen to others?

 

To everyone else, look outside of the box. What about someone who is costing others their life, yet is not directly affecting you? Such situations where you are directly connected to the person you would want to kill are rather simple to answer. What about situations where you are not directly affected?

 

When I was in the service, there were only a few situations where deadly force was authorized, without 'calling ahead' first. One of which was Rape. We were told, that if we are witness to a rape, and we are DAMN sure that is what is going on, we can take out the perp. No warning, no shouts, just kill him. How we handled the situation was left to our discretion. If we wanted to give the rapist a break, and not just blow his worthless brains all over the landscape, we could. Wasn't required though.

 

That would be a situation in which doing nothing, would not harm me physically in the least. (although, if I knew it was going on, and had the ability to do something about it, and did not, I would never be able to look myself in the mirror again.)

[Lehcar]

To be serious, its a better idea for you to shoot to disable, not shoot to kill.

 

Take note that you might get in legal trouble if you shoot to kill. Better off to shoot someone simply to make them fall down and stop being a threat, then call 911 and explain the situation.

 

You might of been joking though, and I just woke up so sorry if you were.

In theory it sounds nice but the caveat I would add is, that the best place to aim is the center mass of the torso which is the upper body. If that disables them then further action is not required but the rule of thumb still is, if they continue moving towards you then you fire until they stop moving closer or moving at all. I would still rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.

 

But the thing is, that's a lot harder to do than it sounds. There is absolutely no "safe" place to shoot a person, ever, not even in seemingly non-vital extremities like a leg or an arm. There are large arteries and veins all through our bodies, and if damaged by a bullet, a person will very quickly die from massive blood loss. There's no way for anyone to shoot someone and know for certain that they will survive the wound. As they say, if you are shooting, you are shooting to kill.

[HeyYou]

To be serious, its a better idea for you to shoot to disable, not shoot to kill.

 

Take note that you might get in legal trouble if you shoot to kill. Better off to shoot someone simply to make them fall down and stop being a threat, then call 911 and explain the situation.

 

You might of been joking though, and I just woke up so sorry if you were.

In theory it sounds nice but the caveat I would add is, that the best place to aim is the center mass of the torso which is the upper body. If that disables them then further action is not required but the rule of thumb still is, if they continue moving towards you then you fire until they stop moving closer or moving at all. I would still rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.

 

But the thing is, that's a lot harder to do than it sounds. There is absolutely no "safe" place to shoot a person, ever, not even in seemingly non-vital extremities like a leg or an arm. There are large arteries and veins all through our bodies, and if damaged by a bullet, a person will very quickly die from massive blood loss. There's no way for anyone to shoot someone and know for certain that they will survive the wound. As they say, if you are shooting, you are shooting to kill.

 

Really, that IS the only way to fire your weapon. If you feel a need to put a bullet in someone, aiming for some non-vital area is more like to be a miss, than a hit. That is not the idea here. The idea is to incapacitate, or kill your target. Aim for center mass. Shoot to kill. Any other intent, and you are more likely to be dead, than your target. If you are going to USE a gun, be fully aware of just what that implies. They weren't made to wound. If you don't want to kill, don't shoot, or, buy a taser. Although, those have been know to kill as well.

[grannywils]

Marharth said: "So you don't think it is okay to take a human life even if that human life is causing death to happen to others?

 

To everyone else, look outside of the box. What about someone who is costing others their life, yet is not directly affecting you? Such situations where you are directly connected to the person you would want to kill are rather simple to answer. What about situations where you are not directly affected?"

 

Marharth, I will not play this game with you. You may either go back and reread my entire post or not. It is no longer of any relevance to me what you think I said or what you think I meant by it. I was totally honest, and I believe that I was abundently clear. However I will ask you once again to not put words into my mouth. I said that I do not believe that I have the right to take a human life. In addition, I made it clear that in spite of that belief I was uncertain how I would react under some circumstances that had already been described by a variety of very eloquent posters who do read what other people say (and I am pretty sure understand it).

[Aurielius]

HeyYou ---excerpt:

"Really, that IS the only way to fire your weapon. If you feel a need to put a bullet in someone, aiming for some non-vital area is more like to be a miss, than a hit. That is not the idea here. The idea is to incapacitate, or kill your target. Aim for center mass. Shoot to kill. Any other intent, and you are more likely to be dead, than your target. If you are going to USE a gun, be fully aware of just what that implies. They weren't made to wound. If you don't want to kill, don't shoot, or, buy a taser. Although, those have been know to kill as well."

 

I am so on the same page as Hey You. People have seen to many movies about the use of firearms and think that there is some glimmer of reality in them which is ridiculous. Use of a side arm requires CONSTANT practice, it is not like riding a bicycle, I have been at the range twice a month for more than 40yrs and still would not risk a shot ( with a pistol) at over 30 meters with hopes of an accurate precise placement of the rounds. Maybe Clint Eastwood could do better but I have no illusions as to who I am. Weapons are not toys, they have one function which is to kill. If pacifistic morality, conscience, or indecision are part of your mental make up then you should not carry a gun. Last but not least, retreat if possible is ALWAYS the best option even if armed to the teeth, deadly force isn't a video game.... there is real blood and real death involved which you will have to live with long after the event.

[grannywils]

Thank you so much for that last post, Aurielius. For regardless of anyone's views on gun violence, etc. I fear that there are far too many who do believe that this is all a vast video game. At least those of you who understand the workings of guns and the seriousness thereof take them seriously. My concern these days is that there are many, not only in the general populace but in positions of power who have forgotten that guns are not toys, but do have one purpose (as you and others have so eloquently stated), and that is to kill. We who play video games may take out our frustrations on the monitor, but hopefully most of us realize that going out into the street with a real gun has absolutely no correlation to what we did last night on WOW or whatever game we played or tv show we watched.

 

Regardless of my views on my right to kill another human being, I want you and HeyYou and others who have posted similar views to know that I appreciate your posts and recognize that you take it seriously. I do not in anyway disavow your rights to your views. I have implicit faith that you would always handle yourselves honorably.