A Mirror of Vietnam?

[grannywils]

Yeah, what he said!!

[LeopoldCrank]

Yes, I am well aware of why labour laws were made, like so much with government force, well intended but with many negative consequences.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQLfPCXIakU

 

Cost of labour is decided by the market, not the all-wise government...government intervention always has good intentions with disasterous consequences.

 

Furthermore, why not make the minimum wage $100 an hour? or $900? who decides what the minimum wage should be and why can't an employee agree to work for $6 an hour? and instead get no job?

 

Took out all the middle quotes, we've all read them.

 

And the minimum wage is completely necessary. Without it, effective slave labour would not only be completely lawful, it would run rampant.

 

This just means that employers have to pay their workers enough money to get by. Why did the minimum wage go up? Because so did the cost of living. The guy in the first video talks about market forces, how about the most basic market force? Inflation! I don't understand how anyone can be angry and resentful that the government insists on employers paying people enough money to live on. Although, the very fact that you are citing uncredited YouTube videos goes part of the way to that explanation.

[SpellAndShield]

Corporations will always want to make profit and there is simply no profit in paying someone 3x what they could pay someone else for the same or better work. What's the solution?

 

 

This is a false premise. Are you trying to convince anyone that the chinese made products are just as good, or better.... than their american made predecessors????? How old are you??

 

Well, don't know if they are just as good but the Chinese sure work harder than most Americans and demand less for their work.

 

I have right here in my own home, a set of Revereware pots and pans. These are older than the hills, and were actually made right here in the USA. (they are probably as old as I am....) They are still in excellent condition, are made of high quality materials, are extremely durable, and I love them to death.

 

On the other hand, I have a newer set of Revereware pots and pans, that were made in china..... the materials are cheap, several of the set have already been scrapped, as they broke........ or became useless in some other fashion, due to build quality, not normal usage.

 

There is no way in hell you are going to convince me the cheap chinese set is 'better' or even close to 'equal' to the set made here in the states. Not just no........

 

And americans will work just as hard as any other nationality on the planet, if given the opportunity. Sure, we want more for our labor, but, it USED TO BE, you got what you paid for, and american products were considered "the best" throughout the world. That started sliding downhill quickly in the late 70's early 80's, when the Japanese figgered out that if they wanted to sell cars here, they had to be reliable. (which at that point, they most certainly were NOT.) Have a look at the top ten cars for the last 20 years. You will notice that there are not many american cars, but quite a few japanese cars. (not so much in the last two to three years though....)

 

If our government, in their infinite wisdom..... *choke* *gasp*... sorry, something in my throat..... weren't so beholden to corporate america, and given them every opportunity to move jobs overseas, at the expense of americans.... perhaps we wouldn't have 40 MILLION or more unemployed americans, even while corporate america is posting record profits......

 

Damn, I knew there was a topic in there somewhere...... Think it had something to do with Afghanistan???

 

We could have gotten Osama buddy with a seal team, NOT overthrown a legitimate, if distasteful, government, NOT spent trillions of dollars on a war we can't possibly win, NOT thrown away the lives of thousands of our soldiers, and thousands more civilians, both ours, and theirs. NOT spent billions more rebuilding stuff we just blew up. Etc.

 

As a libertarian I am passionately opposed to war and foreign spending AND to corporatism; no bailouts, let people fail and let debt be liquidated. Fact is, there is no level playing field in the US economically precisely because the government has been bought up by the various 'complexes'. But that just strengthens the libertarian argument against big government because the smaller the government, the greater the possible oversight, less room for corruption there is and on a level economic playing field there could be real competition, i.e. maybe products in the US would be (theoretically) of better quality for higher prices and we could see which people buy what, whether people buy cheaper foreign made products or American ones but none of this can be achieved with the present warfare/welfare state and I doubt much will change soon until we have hyperinflation and our empire collapses but we'll see.

[SpellAndShield]

Yes, I am well aware of why labour laws were made, like so much with government force, well intended but with many negative consequences.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQLfPCXIakU

 

Cost of labour is decided by the market, not the all-wise government...government intervention always has good intentions with disasterous consequences.

 

Furthermore, why not make the minimum wage $100 an hour? or $900? who decides what the minimum wage should be and why can't an employee agree to work for $6 an hour? and instead get no job?

 

Took out all the middle quotes, we've all read them.

 

And the minimum wage is completely necessary. Without it, effective slave labour would not only be completely lawful, it would run rampant.

 

This just means that employers have to pay their workers enough money to get by. Why did the minimum wage go up? Because so did the cost of living. The guy in the first video talks about market forces, how about the most basic market force? Inflation! I don't understand how anyone can be angry and resentful that the government insists on employers paying people enough money to live on. Although, the very fact that you are citing uncredited YouTube videos goes part of the way to that explanation.

 

Inflation is the GREATEST problem and why do we have it? because of the Federal Reserve and government spending us into oblivion; since the Federal Reserve took over about 100 years ago the dollar has lost 98% of its value, i.e. 'cost of living' going up. Both liberals and coservatives advocate reckless spending that facilitates the printing press and inflation machine; conservatives love spending on war and liberals on welfare and if you are worried about inflation and you should be, you should be for neither but just look at who is given recognition in the this miasma of government deception, liberal hero and Nobel prize winning economist advocating that we need MORE inflation and a more EXPANSIVE Fed monetary policy (i.e. more money printing), Dr. Paul Krugman:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyxURk_c5dU

 

He claims that creating inflation is a good thing and that faking an alien invasion where we spend, spend, spend on warfare would be good. Do you agree with him? Do we need more inflation? On another point, nobody raises a family on a minimum wage job, it's mostly teenagers and young students, arguing that the minimum wage is there for people to get by is thus silly because you still can't get by on 7.50 dolars an hour, so why not make it 50 dollars an hour? Please answer that...

[LeopoldCrank]

Yes, I am well aware of why labour laws were made, like so much with government force, well intended but with many negative consequences.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQLfPCXIakU

 

Cost of labour is decided by the market, not the all-wise government...government intervention always has good intentions with disasterous consequences.

 

Furthermore, why not make the minimum wage $100 an hour? or $900? who decides what the minimum wage should be and why can't an employee agree to work for $6 an hour? and instead get no job?

 

Took out all the middle quotes, we've all read them.

 

And the minimum wage is completely necessary. Without it, effective slave labour would not only be completely lawful, it would run rampant.

 

This just means that employers have to pay their workers enough money to get by. Why did the minimum wage go up? Because so did the cost of living. The guy in the first video talks about market forces, how about the most basic market force? Inflation! I don't understand how anyone can be angry and resentful that the government insists on employers paying people enough money to live on. Although, the very fact that you are citing uncredited YouTube videos goes part of the way to that explanation.

 

Inflation is the GREATEST problem and why do we have it? because of the Federal Reserve and government spending us into oblivion; since the Federal Reserve took over about 100 years ago the dollar has lost 98% of its value, i.e. 'cost of living' going up. Both liberals and coservatives advocate reckless spending that facilitates the printing press and inflation machine; conservatives love spending on war and liberals on welfare and if you are worried about inflation and you should be, you should be for neither but just look at who is given recognition in the this miasma of government deception, liberal hero and Nobel prize winning economist advocating that we need MORE inflation and a more EXPANSIVE Fed monetary policy (i.e. more money printing), Dr. Paul Krugman:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyxURk_c5dU

 

He claims that creating inflation is a good thing and that faking an alien invasion where we spend, spend, spend on warfare would be good. Do you agree with him? Do we need more inflation? On another point, nobody raises a family on a minimum wage job, it's mostly teenagers and young students, arguing that the minimum wage is there for people to get by is thus silly because you still can't get by on 7.50 dolars an hour, so why not make it 50 dollars an hour? Please answer that...

 

I don't think you understand the world at all if you honestly believe that people aren't trying to raise a family on little more than $7.50 an hour, you are kidding yourself. In 2005, for instance, the average wage, before tax was $46,300, which after tax translates to just $33,000 (approximately) a year. (check for yourself http://www.averagesalarysurvey.com/article/average-salary-in-us/15200316/income.aspx). This translates to around about $600 per week, and working a 40 hour week, just over $15 an hour. That means that half of all American's were earning less than $15 an hour, and $600 a week. (all after tax) You try raising a family on that.

 

And don't tell me that 50% of Americans aren't raising a family, because they are.

 

So how is lowering the minimum wage going to help America, when all it will do is to lower that average wage even further and enticing companies to pay their workers even less.

[SpellAndShield]

Yes, I am well aware of why labour laws were made, like so much with government force, well intended but with many negative consequences.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQLfPCXIakU

 

Cost of labour is decided by the market, not the all-wise government...government intervention always has good intentions with disasterous consequences.

 

Furthermore, why not make the minimum wage $100 an hour? or $900? who decides what the minimum wage should be and why can't an employee agree to work for $6 an hour? and instead get no job?

 

Took out all the middle quotes, we've all read them.

 

And the minimum wage is completely necessary. Without it, effective slave labour would not only be completely lawful, it would run rampant.

 

This just means that employers have to pay their workers enough money to get by. Why did the minimum wage go up? Because so did the cost of living. The guy in the first video talks about market forces, how about the most basic market force? Inflation! I don't understand how anyone can be angry and resentful that the government insists on employers paying people enough money to live on. Although, the very fact that you are citing uncredited YouTube videos goes part of the way to that explanation.

 

Inflation is the GREATEST problem and why do we have it? because of the Federal Reserve and government spending us into oblivion; since the Federal Reserve took over about 100 years ago the dollar has lost 98% of its value, i.e. 'cost of living' going up. Both liberals and coservatives advocate reckless spending that facilitates the printing press and inflation machine; conservatives love spending on war and liberals on welfare and if you are worried about inflation and you should be, you should be for neither but just look at who is given recognition in the this miasma of government deception, liberal hero and Nobel prize winning economist advocating that we need MORE inflation and a more EXPANSIVE Fed monetary policy (i.e. more money printing), Dr. Paul Krugman:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyxURk_c5dU

 

He claims that creating inflation is a good thing and that faking an alien invasion where we spend, spend, spend on warfare would be good. Do you agree with him? Do we need more inflation? On another point, nobody raises a family on a minimum wage job, it's mostly teenagers and young students, arguing that the minimum wage is there for people to get by is thus silly because you still can't get by on 7.50 dolars an hour, so why not make it 50 dollars an hour? Please answer that...

 

I don't think you understand the world at all if you honestly believe that people aren't trying to raise a family on little more than $7.50 an hour, you are kidding yourself. In 2005, for instance, the average wage, before tax was $46,300, which after tax translates to just $33,000 (approximately) a year. (check for yourself http://www.averagesalarysurvey.com/article/average-salary-in-us/15200316/income.aspx). This translates to around about $600 per week, and working a 40 hour week, just over $15 an hour. That means that half of all American's were earning less than $15 an hour, and $600 a week. (all after tax) You try raising a family on that.

 

And don't tell me that 50% of Americans aren't raising a family, because they are.

 

So how is lowering the minimum wage going to help America, when all it will do is to lower that average wage even further and enticing companies to pay their workers even less.

 

You did not address my questions regarding inflation or the actual minimum wage; why not make the minimum wage $50 an hour?

[LeopoldCrank]

Yes, I am well aware of why labour laws were made, like so much with government force, well intended but with many negative consequences.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQLfPCXIakU

 

Cost of labour is decided by the market, not the all-wise government...government intervention always has good intentions with disasterous consequences.

 

Furthermore, why not make the minimum wage $100 an hour? or $900? who decides what the minimum wage should be and why can't an employee agree to work for $6 an hour? and instead get no job?

 

Took out all the middle quotes, we've all read them.

 

And the minimum wage is completely necessary. Without it, effective slave labour would not only be completely lawful, it would run rampant.

 

This just means that employers have to pay their workers enough money to get by. Why did the minimum wage go up? Because so did the cost of living. The guy in the first video talks about market forces, how about the most basic market force? Inflation! I don't understand how anyone can be angry and resentful that the government insists on employers paying people enough money to live on. Although, the very fact that you are citing uncredited YouTube videos goes part of the way to that explanation.

 

Inflation is the GREATEST problem and why do we have it? because of the Federal Reserve and government spending us into oblivion; since the Federal Reserve took over about 100 years ago the dollar has lost 98% of its value, i.e. 'cost of living' going up. Both liberals and coservatives advocate reckless spending that facilitates the printing press and inflation machine; conservatives love spending on war and liberals on welfare and if you are worried about inflation and you should be, you should be for neither but just look at who is given recognition in the this miasma of government deception, liberal hero and Nobel prize winning economist advocating that we need MORE inflation and a more EXPANSIVE Fed monetary policy (i.e. more money printing), Dr. Paul Krugman:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyxURk_c5dU

 

He claims that creating inflation is a good thing and that faking an alien invasion where we spend, spend, spend on warfare would be good. Do you agree with him? Do we need more inflation? On another point, nobody raises a family on a minimum wage job, it's mostly teenagers and young students, arguing that the minimum wage is there for people to get by is thus silly because you still can't get by on 7.50 dolars an hour, so why not make it 50 dollars an hour? Please answer that...

 

I don't think you understand the world at all if you honestly believe that people aren't trying to raise a family on little more than $7.50 an hour, you are kidding yourself. In 2005, for instance, the average wage, before tax was $46,300, which after tax translates to just $33,000 (approximately) a year. (check for yourself http://www.averagesalarysurvey.com/article/average-salary-in-us/15200316/income.aspx). This translates to around about $600 per week, and working a 40 hour week, just over $15 an hour. That means that half of all American's were earning less than $15 an hour, and $600 a week. (all after tax) You try raising a family on that.

 

And don't tell me that 50% of Americans aren't raising a family, because they are.

 

So how is lowering the minimum wage going to help America, when all it will do is to lower that average wage even further and enticing companies to pay their workers even less.

 

You did not address my questions regarding inflation or the actual minimum wage; why not make the minimum wage $50 an hour?

 

You'll find, if you flick the tiny, and evidently incredibly hard to locate switch in your brain that is labelled "comprehension skills" that I in fact answered your question perfectly, but if you need me to spell it out, then fine.

 

I don't think you (or any of the people in your videos) understand the concept of the minimum wage. It is supposed to be the lowest possible income that a household can survive upon. Not live comfortably, obviously, but survive; get access to food, some type of housing and live. The reason the minimum wage is not $50 an hour is because that is a ridiculous amount to expect for a lot of jobs, considering that on a 40 hour week, 51 week year, that translates to over $100,000 a year.

 

Also, I am not advocating inflation. It seems you just see words and suddenly, like a bull to a red sheet, you go crazy on it without actually reading what I have posted, and taking time to digest it. What I am saying is that because of inflation (which is not, as you have said, completely the fault of the Federal Reserve but also a result of the globalisation movements which the entire world has undergone, quite conveniently for your hypothesis over the past 100 years, though that argument is for another thread) and rises in the cost of living, the minimum wage must necessarily go up as well, purely because the previous minimum wage would not be worth as much, as the dollar also loses its worth.

[SoulofChrysamere]

All I can say after reading all of this is, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." Don't remember who made that quote, but it's one of my favorites.

[HeyYou]

All I can say after reading all of this is, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." Don't remember who made that quote, but it's one of my favorites.

 

And we are well on our way down it too...... Welcome to the hand basket. :D

[Aurielius]

I have very intentionally not posted in this thread but the one thing I would like to comment on after reviewing all the posts, is that the only thing that is conspicuously absent is a post from someone who was ACTUALLY there. :whistling:

 

PS: Vagrant you are of the right age and if were 'in country' then I apologize for excluding you but the rest.... :facepalm: .

Edited August 20, 2011 by Aurielius