What can be done to stop the violence on the Mexican/Amerian border

[RZ1029]

Legalizing drugs would decrease the violence on our border, as most violence is caused by drug cartels. Legalizing drugs would put the cartels out of a job, and therefore the violence on the border will be severely reduced.

 

1) Prove it.

2) I disagree.

3) Out of a job? I think not. It just makes their jobs easier. The cartels, they don't fight cops near as often as they fight each other. So now they'll just be shooting each other up in the streets for turf. They aren't about to buy a storefront when they're already wanted for all these other crimes they've committed, robbery, murder, extortion, etc.

[marharth]

Legalizing drugs would decrease the violence on our border, as most violence is caused by drug cartels. Legalizing drugs would put the cartels out of a job, and therefore the violence on the border will be severely reduced.

 

1) Prove it.

2) I disagree.

3) Out of a job? I think not. It just makes their jobs easier. The cartels, they don't fight cops near as often as they fight each other. So now they'll just be shooting each other up in the streets for turf. They aren't about to buy a storefront when they're already wanted for all these other crimes they've committed, robbery, murder, extortion, etc.

1. It may not completely make them go away, it will make them lose profit and it won't be required for them to smuggle or cross the border nearly as much.

 

2. Above.

 

3. True, but it will mostly happen in Mexico, smuggling won't be much of a issue if the US has drugs that can be bought legally in the states.

 

 

This topic is about border violence after all, not how to fix Mexico.

[Deleted1848331User]

Maybe I play too many shooters but chain guns are a very good form of defense if you can aim :P

 

If the illegal (should've said that) drugs were legalized I don't think it would be good. Sure, we'd make money off taxing it, but imagine what it would be like if there we hundreds of people who were high running around. Besides, it damages the brain and lungs and other organs...

 

So does tobacco. So does Alcohol. So do car accidents. So do professional sports. So does breathing in Gary Indiana. Shall we make all of those illegal as well?

 

The thing about tobacco is that it's been used for so long and so many people smoke now that it'd kill more people than it'd save if it was illegalized, due from addiction and them going crazy. Its not as bad either.

 

Alcohol isn't very addicting unless you drink a whole pack of around 10-20 a day. At that rate you'd be dead pretty soon anyways. (I'm talking about beer here, wine I don't know too much about.)

 

Car accidents and professional sports aren't drugs. Sports becoming illegal would cause an uproar and put a lot of people (athletes) out of jobs. Too many people like sports to do that. Car accidents are rare where I live, and besides that, what would you do; make driving illegal and make everyone ride bikes? There's how many roads in the world :P

 

I can accept there are some flaws in what I said, but I'm only talking about the illegal ones. Not too many people get drunk from beer anymore and do crazy things either (at least, that I know of :unsure:).

 

Anyways, wasn't this on stopping violence on the Mexican/American border? This thread got hijacked pretty badly... :P

[RZ1029]

3. True, but it will mostly happen in Mexico, smuggling won't be much of a issue if the US has drugs that can be bought legally in the states.

I don't think you get how gangs work, man. They fight for turf here, in the US, where they deal, which streets they own. Legalizing it wouldn't change a thing about that. They'd just be shooting eachother up for turf rights, here on our turf.

This topic is about border violence after all, not how to fix Mexico.

I know.

[HeyYou]

Maybe I play too many shooters but chain guns are a very good form of defense if you can aim :P

 

If the illegal (should've said that) drugs were legalized I don't think it would be good. Sure, we'd make money off taxing it, but imagine what it would be like if there we hundreds of people who were high running around. Besides, it damages the brain and lungs and other organs...

 

So does tobacco. So does Alcohol. So do car accidents. So do professional sports. So does breathing in Gary Indiana. Shall we make all of those illegal as well?

 

The thing about tobacco is that it's been used for so long and so many people smoke now that it'd kill more people than it'd save if it was illegalized, due from addiction and them going crazy. Its not as bad either.

 

Alcohol isn't very addicting unless you drink a whole pack of around 10-20 a day. At that rate you'd be dead pretty soon anyways. (I'm talking about beer here, wine I don't know too much about.)

 

Car accidents and professional sports aren't drugs. Sports becoming illegal would cause an uproar and put a lot of people (athletes) out of jobs. Too many people like sports to do that. Car accidents are rare where I live, and besides that, what would you do; make driving illegal and make everyone ride bikes? There's how many roads in the world :P

 

I can accept there are some flaws in what I said, but I'm only talking about the illegal ones. Not too many people get drunk from beer anymore and do crazy things either (at least, that I know of :unsure:).

 

Anyways, wasn't this on stopping violence on the Mexican/American border? This thread got hijacked pretty badly... :P

 

Have a look at this page.

 

About half way down, in section 8, there is a nice little chart, detailing the number of deaths per year due to various causes. Note the values for:

 

Alcohol: 23199

Homicide: 18361

Marijuana: 0

 

Alcohol kills more people than are killed by violent crime every year. Yet, it is still legal. Marijuana doesn't kill anyone. Yet it is illegal. Your argument holds no water. Tobacco is directly involved in 443,000 deaths per year..... yet it is legal. How does this make any sense at all? You should really look into the reasons as to just WHY marijuana was made illegal.... it has nothing to do with being harmful to humans. It has everything to do with assorted business interests. (dating back to the hemp industry in 1906.)

 

I have buried a fair few of my friends due to alcohol, and most of the time, They WEREN'T the ones that were drinking. I don't know of anyone that pot either directly, or indirectly, caused their death. I see articles in the paper daily, about folks that got busted for driving under the influence of alcohol. I don't remember ever seeing one about someone being busted for driving while stoned.

 

Legalizing marijuana (to get back on-topic here...) would negate the need to import marijuana at all. It is basically a weed, and will grow ANYWHERE. It would still be illegal in Mexico..... unless they update their laws as well. The cartels would instantly lose their market here in the states, their chief customers, as locally grown pot would be better quality, and significantly cheaper. Smuggling pot would become a thing of the past, as their would be no demand for it. We could STOP spending billions of dollars a year trying fighting a war that simply cannot be won, we would have a whole new growth industry, which would create jobs, and generate tax revenue. A winning situation all the way around.

[Deleted1848331User]

Maybe I play too many shooters but chain guns are a very good form of defense if you can aim :P

 

If the illegal (should've said that) drugs were legalized I don't think it would be good. Sure, we'd make money off taxing it, but imagine what it would be like if there we hundreds of people who were high running around. Besides, it damages the brain and lungs and other organs...

 

So does tobacco. So does Alcohol. So do car accidents. So do professional sports. So does breathing in Gary Indiana. Shall we make all of those illegal as well?

 

The thing about tobacco is that it's been used for so long and so many people smoke now that it'd kill more people than it'd save if it was illegalized, due from addiction and them going crazy. Its not as bad either.

 

Alcohol isn't very addicting unless you drink a whole pack of around 10-20 a day. At that rate you'd be dead pretty soon anyways. (I'm talking about beer here, wine I don't know too much about.)

 

Car accidents and professional sports aren't drugs. Sports becoming illegal would cause an uproar and put a lot of people (athletes) out of jobs. Too many people like sports to do that. Car accidents are rare where I live, and besides that, what would you do; make driving illegal and make everyone ride bikes? There's how many roads in the world :P

 

I can accept there are some flaws in what I said, but I'm only talking about the illegal ones. Not too many people get drunk from beer anymore and do crazy things either (at least, that I know of :unsure:).

 

Anyways, wasn't this on stopping violence on the Mexican/American border? This thread got hijacked pretty badly... :P

 

Have a look at this page.

 

About half way down, in section 8, there is a nice little chart, detailing the number of deaths per year due to various causes. Note the values for:

 

Alcohol: 23199

Homicide: 18361

Marijuana: 0

 

Alcohol kills more people than are killed by violent crime every year. Yet, it is still legal. Marijuana doesn't kill anyone. Yet it is illegal. Your argument holds no water. Tobacco is directly involved in 443,000 deaths per year..... yet it is legal. How does this make any sense at all? You should really look into the reasons as to just WHY marijuana was made illegal.... it has nothing to do with being harmful to humans. It has everything to do with assorted business interests. (dating back to the hemp industry in 1906.)

 

I have buried a fair few of my friends due to alcohol, and most of the time, They WEREN'T the ones that were drinking. I don't know of anyone that pot either directly, or indirectly, caused their death. I see articles in the paper daily, about folks that got busted for driving under the influence of alcohol. I don't remember ever seeing one about someone being busted for driving while stoned.

 

Legalizing marijuana (to get back on-topic here...) would negate the need to import marijuana at all. It is basically a weed, and will grow ANYWHERE. It would still be illegal in Mexico..... unless they update their laws as well. The cartels would instantly lose their market here in the states, their chief customers, as locally grown pot would be better quality, and significantly cheaper. Smuggling pot would become a thing of the past, as their would be no demand for it. We could STOP spending billions of dollars a year trying fighting a war that simply cannot be won, we would have a whole new growth industry, which would create jobs, and generate tax revenue. A winning situation all the way around.

I don't get why alcohol is legal anyways...

 

In anycase, thinking that way you do have an point. What I mean is that if everyone used it, then I think that the country would be a little odd, because marijuana and the other illegal drugs usually don't kill (except meth probably) and only make you very sick for the most part.

 

But you prove a valid point. Legalizing the illegal drugs would screw over the market for drug cartels because, as you said, the local drugs would be higher quality and possibly cheaper. However, remember the effects of the drugs and why they are illegal in the first place. Except for marijuana which you have honestly done more research on than I have they are dangerous. Marijuana can be used for medical purposes so they aren't as bad. The version used to smoke however is. It has a lot of bad and dangerous chemicals on it.

 

Going further, do you recall what meth is commonly made of? Things like rat poison, paint, bathroom cleaners, nail polish, etc. If they happened to be legalized, I don't think meth should be because it has some of the worst effects out of drugs.

 

I'll admit, I haven't read up on their effects recently, since 2005ish, so I don't remember a lot of things. Right now I'm tired though, so I'll do it tomorrow...

 

EDIT: Take a look at the by Firearm, Suicide, and Drug Induced values however. A considerable amount more are dead from those. By Firearm would probably be things like hunting accidents (possibly), suicide by gun, and assaults, but it's still a fairly large number.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Guest

[Aurielius]

'Legalizing marijuana (to get back on-topic here...) would negate the need to import marijuana at all. It is basically a weed, and will grow ANYWHERE. It would still be illegal in Mexico..... unless they update their laws as well. The cartels would instantly lose their market here in the states, their chief customers, as locally grown pot would be better quality, and significantly cheaper. Smuggling pot would become a thing of the past, as their would be no demand for it. We could STOP spending billions of dollars a year trying fighting a war that simply cannot be won, we would have a whole new growth industry, which would create jobs, and generate tax revenue. A winning situation all the way around.'

 

I won't go into whether or not legalization is medically sound or whether it's an addictive substance or not. If Prohibition is any indicator, it would remove the economic base for the cartels that deal in it. I personally am not an adherent of use of drugs. One observation though, the point of Rome's decline could be measured when their vices outstripped their virtues. It's a slippery slope that you are proposing, where it ends is really questionable.

[greywaste]

A greased 75 degree metal slide slippery kind of slope

 

It's a little dubious citing the softest of the illegal drugs in comparison to alcohol (and I'm wondering how many of those were cases of alcohol being the scapegoat - heart disease, liver problems etc)

Ultimately, any stats we can find are meaningless since the usage rates in those stats are going to be way out considering it's a comparison between a legal substance and illegal ones.

 

I know a lot, too much in fact, about drug use and users and due to my experiences I would never legalise *hard* drugs. Alcohol creates more than enough problems by itself.

While I can understand the arguments for and see reason in them I just couldn't agree.

 

The war on drugs is failing because it isn't a war on drugs.

In my mind the lesser of two evils here would be finding out where they live and send an Apache over, that or Special Forces raids, Bin Laden style and keep doing it until noone dared to step in and fill the last guys boots.

It seems worth a try to me in any case.

 

The cartels are prepared to wipe out entire town police forces (or any Americans who get too close for that matter)with military grade weaponry. Do an image search for some of the weapon caches they've recovered from these guys, they'll just turn to other forms of equally violent crime if their grip on drugs disappears.

Edited August 24, 2011 by greywaste

[marharth]

I guess it would help to just hunt down cartels.

[HeyYou]

I am NOT advocating for legalizing the hard drugs. (heroin, and things of that nature...) although, if that DID happen, a fair few of the problems inherent with those types of drugs would soon take care of themselves....... That will never happen though.

 

Pot, and cocaine though..... Yeah. Prohibition doesn't work. The war on drugs isn't going to work, unless, as suggested above, we go after the leaders of the cartels, and remove them from the scene. Of course, the Mexican government would be screaming bloody murder if we did that. (and is one of the reasons we haven't.......) So, that option probably is off the table. Not to mention the sheer volume of money to be made. Someone will always be handy to step up, and take the risk. Money does funny things to people.

 

I would also invite you to have a look at just what types of military weapons the cartels are using. Oh my, would ya look at that! American military weapons. Along with the ol' standard AK-47's and such. How did they get american weapons? Easy, we sold them to them. That was a brilliant plan, now wasn't it?

 

Marijuana is not addictive. Cocaine? Yeah, to about the same extent as alcohol is....... yet neither of the former substances kill as many as alcohol. Even if the numbers are restricted to only traffic fatalities, its still pretty scary. Yet, alcohol is 'accepted'. Right here where I live, there was an incident involving a drunk driver, that hit another car, and killed four of five members of a family in an instant. At the trial, it was ruled that his past history of drunk driving would prejudice the jury, and so the prosecution was not allowed to bring it up. And just what was his past history? 37 separate incidents. Thirty Seven. He had served a total of 90 days in jail for ALL of them. (over a period of several years.) He still had a drivers license. He could still get insurance. But, pot is illegal.......... a substance that doesn't harm nearly the number of people as alcohol, is not addictive, may or may not have some deleterious side affects. (munchies...... not enough info to judge for anything else....) but it is illegal.

 

Oh well. No one ever claimed that the law needed to make any sense whatsoever.

 

So, as far as drug smuggling is concerned, we are never going to put a stop to it. So long as there is money to be made, someone will be there to provide the service. Take away the motivation of money, and there will be no motivation to provide the service. Not to mention the other benefits I stated in an earlier post.