What can be done to stop the violence on the Mexican/Amerian border

[RZ1029]

Why deport someone born into the country, when they didn't even have a choice in the matter? Doesn't seem very fair to me to take the kid out of the country they were born in, and put them somewhere else were they have never been before.

Your logic is flawed. Their parents are here illegally, they have no right to be here either. If 3 then 1 + 2 does not work when you should have 1 + 2 before you can get 3.

Also I can name a number of countries, the most obvious being Canada. Quite a few others, even Mexico itself has similar laws.

Similar, but both Canada and Mexico require the parents be in the country legally for the law to apply, if I recall correctly. I don't have the time to look it up at the moment, unfortunately.

 

The United States is historically a country of immigration. How much Native American blood do you have? Your ancestors were likely at one point immigrants, and its possible they were even illegal.

.1% or so, if that much. All of my great-grandparents came from Germany after World War I, and they all came through Ellis Island, legally, and I'm proud to say I still have their papers, and one of their journals.

Is there any strong evidence that "anchor babies" drive immigration?

The sheer numbers are staggering. In Stockton, California (2003), 70 percent of the 2,300 babies, born in San Joaquin General Hospital’s maternity ward were anchor babies.

First Google result. Again, lack of time prevents me from digging further.

 

Not to mention if this right was removed, how will it be handled for people now? People born into the country will not be able to be deported since they do not have a official citizenship elsewhere. Do you have to deport them to their parents country and force them to become citizens there? Its a problem that will require a great deal bureaucracy and problems. You may not even be able to figure out where the kids parents came from. What happens in this situation?

Parents here illegally? Send them back to their home country, with their baby, and let them sort out the paperwork. Since they're legal citizens there, the country would likely just grant the child citizenship with no problems. Parents here legally? Great. Welcome to America.

 

The 14th Amendment was enacted to give citizenship rights. If you support the constitution and its amendments? I know a lot of people here claim to support the constitution and what it says and stands for, but what does that mean if you have no problem with things being removed that you dislike?

Do not use sad tactics like this to win a debate, Marharth. You are smarter than that. If your best argument is 'you're either completely for us or completely against us', your last leg is shaking badly and you might not be able to stand on it much longer. That being said, I have issue with this portion of the 14th Amendment as it is currently used, which is not what it was intended to do when first passed. I also have some other issues with various bits and pieces of the Constitution, and how I believe it was intended to be used, and how it is currently being used, or the existence of some parts entirely. But that's more personal feelings than anything.

[marharth]

1. But it is not the choice of the child. Why punish the child due to their parents actions?

 

2. Canada and Mexico both have birthright citizenship. I believe that includes illegals for their laws and well.

 

3. I find .1% unlikely. I may be wrong, but is there a huge difference between illegal immigration and legal immigration? Does it not have the same or similar effect on the country and the economy?

 

4. That is not very much evidence. I understand that anchor babies could be a cause for immigration, I just don't know if there is any real statistics or studies behind it.

 

5. The problem is what if you don't know the parents? If the baby is born in the USA and the immigrants have no records, what do you do? How do you keep track of people who are not on record?

 

6. Fair enough. My problem is when people only use parts of the constitution and ignore the other parts.

[HeyYou]

1. But it is not the choice of the child. Why punish the child due to their parents actions?

 

2. Canada and Mexico both have birthright citizenship. I believe that includes illegals for their laws and well.

 

3. I find .1% unlikely. I may be wrong, but is there a huge difference between illegal immigration and legal immigration? Does it not have the same or similar effect on the country and the economy?

 

4. That is not very much evidence. I understand that anchor babies could be a cause for immigration, I just don't know if there is any real statistics or studies behind it.

 

5. The problem is what if you don't know the parents? If the baby is born in the USA and the immigrants have no records, what do you do? How do you keep track of people who are not on record?

 

6. Fair enough. My problem is when people only use parts of the constitution and ignore the other parts.

 

We reward the parents for illegal behavior? If you are here ILLEGALLY, you have NO right to be here, AT ALL. What happens while you are here is irrelevant. If a child is born of ILLEGAL parents, shall we keep the child here, and deport the parents? I really don't think so. Shall we allow the parents to stay, even though they came here ILLEGALLY??? Again, I really don't think so. The child has no clue about what is going on, and where said child is born, is irrelevant as far as the child is concerned. It simply does not care, all it cares about is being fed, changed, and a warm place to sleep. What country the child is in just doesn't matter.

 

In contacting foreign governments directly, the Center for Immigration Studies was able to confirm that only 33 of the world's 194 countries grant automatic birthright citizenship to children born to illegal aliens. Some countries which do have such automatic birthright citizenship policies rarely grant such citizenship to children of illegal aliens, however.

 

So, the US is in the minority here. Isn't that interesting.

 

Now, what happens with these illegals? They don't have a social security number, so, legally, they can't work, although, they CAN sign up for welfare...... If they DO work, it is unreported income, on which they do not pay taxes, and generally the money is sent out of country in any event. So, they put a drain on our economy, in that the government must support them, and they contribute nothing. And that's the whole idea behind anchor babies. Get into the states, give birth, get government assistance, and have a 'better' life than what they had in whatever country they came from. We spend BILLIONS of dollars a year on illegals, for just such reasons. As our country is borrowing 43% of everything it spends, something has to give. I don't think support criminals is a necessary, or even desirable expense. The reality is, we simply can't afford it.

[marharth]

We reward the parents for illegal behavior? If you are here ILLEGALLY, you have NO right to be here, AT ALL. What happens while you are here is irrelevant. If a child is born of ILLEGAL parents, shall we keep the child here, and deport the parents? I really don't think so. Shall we allow the parents to stay, even though they came here ILLEGALLY??? Again, I really don't think so. The child has no clue about what is going on, and where said child is born, is irrelevant as far as the child is concerned. It simply does not care, all it cares about is being fed, changed, and a warm place to sleep. What country the child is in just doesn't matter.

 

So, the US is in the minority here. Isn't that interesting.

 

Now, what happens with these illegals? They don't have a social security number, so, legally, they can't work, although, they CAN sign up for welfare...... If they DO work, it is unreported income, on which they do not pay taxes, and generally the money is sent out of country in any event. So, they put a drain on our economy, in that the government must support them, and they contribute nothing. And that's the whole idea behind anchor babies. Get into the states, give birth, get government assistance, and have a 'better' life than what they had in whatever country they came from. We spend BILLIONS of dollars a year on illegals, for just such reasons. As our country is borrowing 43% of everything it spends, something has to give. I don't think support criminals is a necessary, or even desirable expense. The reality is, we simply can't afford it.

 

Fair enough on your first point. You haven't replied to other my other points though.

 

Just because the US is in the minority does not mean its incorrect. Quite a lot of good things are in the minority as well.

 

How about if we made it so you had to confirm citizenship status for welfare? What about making citizenship easier?

[draconix]

Regarding illegal "immigration"

I think the "immigration issue" is really just a lot of racist and nationalist sensationalism. Considering the roots of the United States, who the hell are we to complain about illegal immigration? The first "American" immigrants from Europe founded and expanded the nation on forcibly taking the land from the people who rightfully owned and developed it. (We also bought some land in the Louisiana Purchase, but we bought it from people who didn't actually own that land, go figure.) If anybody should be complaining about illegal immigration, it should be the few Native Americans left that somehow survived our slavery, disease, warfare, and now "welfare".

 

Everyone who is in America right now is only here because of an incredibly lucky hand in a game of chance. That doesn't make us any more important or better than anybody else in the world. Shutting people out of America because they're Mexican or Cuban or otherwise, is incredibly selfish. These people come to America to improve their situation, and if you could do the same, you would too.

 

People complaining about "immigration problem" are ignorant hypocrites, and it astounds me to no end to hear the utter garbage that projects from their mouths. Can you believe that I've heard people compare America to middle-eastern countries? Stating that our government should be more like Pakistan or Iran because of the way they handle their borders? Stating that people who try should just be shot... What is the Land of the Free coming to? Granted, we've never really been out for anybody but ourselves from the first, but we could at least do a little better in acting like the good little Christians that the majority of the US claim to be.

 

TLDR: We're all illegals, here by a stroke of luck. We should all strive to be better people, even to the people who need it the most.

[HeyYou]

Regarding illegal "immigration"

I think the "immigration issue" is really just a lot of racist and nationalist sensationalism. Considering the roots of the United States, who the hell are we to complain about illegal immigration? The first "American" immigrants from Europe founded and expanded the nation on forcibly taking the land from the people who rightfully owned and developed it. (We also bought some land in the Louisiana Purchase, but we bought it from people who didn't actually own that land, go figure.) If anybody should be complaining about illegal immigration, it should be the few Native Americans left that somehow survived our slavery, disease, warfare, and now "welfare".

 

Everyone who is in America right now is only here because of an incredibly lucky hand in a game of chance. That doesn't make us any more important or better than anybody else in the world. Shutting people out of America because they're Mexican or Cuban or otherwise, is incredibly selfish. These people come to America to improve their situation, and if you could do the same, you would too.

 

People complaining about "immigration problem" are ignorant hypocrites, and it astounds me to no end to hear the utter garbage that projects from their mouths. Can you believe that I've heard people compare America to middle-eastern countries? Stating that our government should be more like Pakistan or Iran because of the way they handle their borders? Stating that people who try should just be shot... What is the Land of the Free coming to? Granted, we've never really been out for anybody but ourselves from the first, but we could at least do a little better in acting like the good little Christians that the majority of the US claim to be.

 

TLDR: We're all illegals, here by a stroke of luck. We should all strive to be better people, even to the people who need it the most.

 

We have gone from the land of the free, to, the land of the free lunch.

 

And we don't discriminate against anyone. We just ask that folks come here LEGALLY. It's now 200 and some change years later, the situation is NOT the same, but, according to you, we should just open up our borders, and let anyone in that can get here? Unregulated? Terribly sorry, but, your altruistic position would bury this country in short order. (not that we aren't doing a fine job of it in any event... just not quite so quickly.)

 

I am a hypocrite? I was born here. My parents were born here. THEIR parents were born here, THEIR parents were born here, and their parents emigrated here LEGALLY. So, you will have to excuse me if I take exception to someone sneaking into this country, taking advantage of the services available, and contributing NOTHING. Does that make me a hypocrite? Ok, that's fine. I can live with that.

[draconix]

Looks like you too are nothing more than a freaking grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-anchorbaby, just like me huh?

Who's land do you suppose you're living on? Just because some FOBs from Europe decided to set up some sort of government here, you think that government is somehow valid because it's been here for a whopping 200 years? Do you have any idea how old European nations have been around? And yes, you are a hypocrite for the stance that you are taking on this. You were born into this world with the proverbial silver spoon up your butt because you were born in the states, but what have you done to earn the right to live here? Why should they have to do anything more than you did besides just coming into existence in the US?

 

EDIT:

 

In addition, your comment about the illegals coming here and not contributing anything is just shy of using the phrase "Lazy Mexican." You're assuming that they come here to mooch rather than to work, which is clearly not the case based on the way they're "taking all our jobs!" as claimed by many proponents of your side of the debate. The fact of the matter is they work harder and longer hours for less money than most Americans will. They are probably America's only hope to regain some of our debt from China. If it were up to the fat, lazy Americans, we'd just spend more and dig deeper into debt.

Edited August 23, 2011 by draconix

[RZ1029]

I don't care what race they are. They could be Martians for all I care. They're still going to have to file for their green card with ICE. No, that wasn't racist toward Martians, because everyone knows they're green.

[marharth]

I am going to make a new topic on immigration, this is supposed to be on border violence.

[Deleted1848331User]

Maybe I play too many shooters but chain guns are a very good form of defense if you can aim :P

 

If the illegal (should've said that) drugs were legalized I don't think it would be good. Sure, we'd make money off taxing it, but imagine what it would be like if there we hundreds of people who were high running around. Besides, it damages the brain and lungs and other organs...