Mages, do they need armor?

[endgamecutter]

I decided to make a mage type character since I haven't yet, but I can't really decide on the build. I've got something like:

 

Spec: Magic

Attribute: Intelligence, Endurance

Skill: Destruction, Restoration

 

and...can't actually think of anything else. I know there's a bunch of useful stuff in the other spell lists, but a lot of it is stuff I can't really see myself using. Even Restoration is up for debate because of the whole Full heal waiting deal. I considered alchemy, but thats something I use all the time, and it might boost my level higher than my actual combat skills can match. Conjuration is something I'm considering, but I can barely swing a sword when I have allies because they always run in front of me and cause a bunch of friendly fire, so summons would likely do more harm than good. Bound equipment might be interesting though, especially since I intend on downloading Midas Magic, but that would interfere with and enchanted gear I'm using, plus I can just use a glitch to have permanent bound armor that I can unequip at will if I want the gear.

 

Sorry about going off subject, I thought I had more of a concrete build in my head when I went into writing this thread. Back at hand, I'm not sure if I should really wear armor as a mage, since it limits mobility, apparently weakens spells and weighs a lot, in addition to, at this point, looking fairly ugly (mods not included) since I've seen it all so many times. A lot of the problems (not the looks though) go away once I get high skills though, and since I doubt I'd remember to refresh a defensive buff every fight my defense would be fairly horrible. Also, good looking clothing is kind of hard to come by.

 

TL;DR Is Armor a good idea on a mage? what kind? Whether or not armor is a good idea, whats a good looking mod for mage armor/clothing set that works for a male character? What skills should I actually bother with? Thanks in advance.

[Hickory]

Armour is never a good idea on a pure mage. It limits your magic abilities and speed/manoeuvrability quite badly, and doesn't make up for it fully in defence. If you are going to be a pure mage, specialise, specialise, specialise -- you don't want to be wielding a sword except for defence. Leave that to the warriors and nightblades. To avoid the awful default Oblivion levelling issues, use something like Oblivion XP, then you can forget about problems with using skills that would otherwise harm your levelling stats. Summoning is a great way of diverting attention away from yourself in sticky situations, and for taking on harder foes so don't dismiss it. If you use Oblivion XP, go all out for your mage boosters (Willpower and Intelligence are a must) and forget about Endurance. If you don't specialise your character will always be at risk as a pure mage.

[endgamecutter]

well, I never said FULL mage, just primarily a mage. Seeing as some of the schools of magic wouldn't really get used by me at all (I'd forget to use illusion beyond charm 100pt for 1 second, I'd get tired of having to recast defensive buffs every fight, and mysticism doesn't look like it has much use beyond screwing around and enchanting...except for the fact that I can get better gear from sigil stones or unique items than I would through enchanting my stuff*) So I imagine myself taking some non-magic skills to support myself, which is the main reason I'm confused as to most of the build. If I just wanted pure mage I wouldn't have much trouble, simply taking all the mage specialization skills.

 

*although to be fair, midas magic might add some value to the magic schools I've otherwise dismissed as stuff I don't have a use for.

[Zephyr2011]

I have two mage characters one is a pure and the other is something I call a warwager who's a smattering of all 3 specializations but a little more magic leaning.

 

Pure

Race: Altmer

Sex: Male

Sign: Apprentice (yes he's uber weak to magic but he also has more magic than you can shake a stick at)

Attributes: Intelligence & Willpower

Skills: Destruction, Mysticism, Alteration, Illusion, Conjuration, Alchemy, Restoration (basically all magic specializations)

I use Kobu's Character Advancement System which levels you automatically and gives you attribute gains as you progress in skills. You can alter how attributes increase with 'paths of destiny' I personally like to use 'the great wheel' which boosts multiple attributes at different rates based upon the skill you increase (thus improving my intelligence and willpower with all of my skill increases) This is my pure mage concept and it's pretty ballsy when going against necromancers and conjurers but it works well.

 

My other mage is probably more what you're looking for

Race: Dark Elf

Sex: Male

Sign: Apprentice

Attributes: Intelligence & Agility

Skills: Destruction, Conjuration, Illusion (or substitute with Alteration or Security), Blade, Sneak, Marksman, Light Armor

The early game is difficult with this one but once you hit level five or get some good equipment its smooth sailing. Destruction is clearly useful for most of your fighting, Conjuration can give you much better weapons than you'll find at early levels (bound swords, bows and the like can be invaluable when all you have is an iron shortsword) and the summons are supremely helpful when the character is still a little wet behind the ears. At higher levels summoning Xivilai and Spider Daedra makes conjuration very useful as you can mostly sit back and enjoy the show while your minions do the hacking and slashing. Illusion is helpful to paralyze enemies and silence mages when you're doing the Mages Guild quests (nothing cuts Mannimarco down a few notches like a silence and weakness to magicka spell) but since this class has no real way to bypass locks you could substitute in security (and change specialization to stealth) or alteration. Blade is good for the occasional melee or when your magicka's run dry, marksman and sneak makes taking out weaker targets fairly easy and the light armor doesn't restrict too much and still allows for decent protection.

[Master Marksman]

As longs as you have Alteration, you really dont need armor.

[InAComaDial999]

My current character is level 25, has never worn armor. Who needs armor when you can enchant clothing, cast defensive spells, and create potions that weigh 0.1 and give you 40+ points of Shield for 200 seconds?

[endgamecutter]

Okay then, so I guess that means no armor is fine, but it still leaves the issue of what skills to take. Since I don't intend to use all the magic skill sets (I guess we can spread it to Destruction, Restoration, Alteration now), what else would complement a mage build? and for what it's worth, does anyone know of a good male clothing mod that isn't skimpy?

[thiafy]

For non-skimpy armor: Documn kindly pointed out the following list to me, indirectly --

Non-Sexy Armor

It's for both genders. It hasn't been updated in a while, but I know for a fact that some of the male-only armor in there is supremely fantastic (because I only roll girls, and I was hella jealous. XD)

 

As for the question of whether or not to bring armor -- you need either Alchemy, Alteration, or an Armor skill, generally (or very good Restoration and mad dodging skills. Block doesn't hurt). But the three are frankly interchangeable, depending on how you want to play -- and if you don't want to have to keep finding Potatoes and such for potions, and you don't care to keep recasting Shield spells, then Light Armor tends to be easier on your spell effectiveness than Heavy Armor.

 

Presently, my concept for a spellcaster (spellsword, specifically) which I plan to implement shortly is as follows:

Race: Breton or Altmer

Attributes: Endurance and Willpower (may replace one for Luck)

Major Skills: Alteration, Athletics, Blade, Block, Destruction, Illusion, Speechcraft.

No armor, just a good ol' shield spell and some well-timed blocking. Lots of Destruction, Alteration and Illusion use, but no plans to build much or any skill with the various other types of magic (except Restoration/Alchemy, as needed).

 

More skills?:

To complement your current skill set, you need a good idea of how you want your class to feel. The above is supposed to be a bit of a spellsword/bard.

 

You can also take into account what skills your character's race is particularly good at (see here) -- if you're playing an Altmer or a Dunmer, for instance, you may as well take advantage of the starting racial bonus for Destruction. It's a very nice one. Note that your Specialization adds an additional +5 to related skills: a Breton Magic-specialist with a major skill of Conjuration, Mysticism, or Restoration will start out with 40 points in that skill -- 10 away from Journeyman level.

 

Since magicka is an essential resource for a mage, a way of causing damage without magic (in case it does run out, which it will) is rarely a bad idea. You may want to invest in Hand-to-Hand, Blade or Blunt -- Destruction makes Marksmanship a bit pointless (if you're building up your Magicka anyways and you've got good Destruction, that's actually a bit objectively-better, so I hear), but something you can pull out at close-quarters can be very useful. Additionally, Speechcraft, Mercantile, Athletics, and Acrobatics all never hurt anyone (especially if you're using a mod which fixes the levelling issue of which you speak -- I use Abo's Realistic Levelling and OOO), and are good standbys. I generally choose two out of those four and throw them in, depending on the type of character I'm making.

 

Other notes: If you're going into Alteration, security will become useless fairly quickly. Generally (depending on mods), you can skip it over and just focus on your Alteration without any worries. Block is most useful if you plan to use some armor (i.e. a shield), but doesn't hurt regardless. If you are using any type of armor, the Armorer skill is generally invaluable (in my experience).

Edited August 25, 2011 by thiafy

[RatcatcherOfKvatch]

To get the 5 points of Endurance every level you need to use Heavy Armor and do a lot of Blocking.

Once you've maxed Endurance ditch the armor -- all of it. Your spells will gain 100% effectiveness, and if you bind Transcendent Sigil Stones with Frost, Fire, and Shock shield that's 25 armor each for a total of 75. With the Bladeturn Cowl you're maxed without a single scrap of armor.

 

Once I endured the tedium of blocking sewer rats for 12 levels I became convinced in subsequent games that it wasn't cheating to use a skill mod. Letting yourself be bitten by a rat repeatedly to increase your armor skills is also completely retarded. Using a mod doesn't feel like cheating now that I've leveled Endurance without using a mod.

[Nobody09]

As ratcatcher said. Using the trancscedent sigil stone of shock, fire, and frost gets you 75 armor class. Which is about as good protection as full daedric with 100 armor skill. The limit on armor is 85. And the difference between 75 and 85 is nonexistent for a very long time. In fact you only need 25 to 50 ac till about level 15 to max damage mitigation pretty much. Unless you play at max difficulty (6x damage or 2/3rd difficulty 4x damage.).