Question about racial abililities?

[SpellAndShield]

I always thought racial abilites were very cool and I want them to stay in but I was hoping that they might be a little refined; one of example of this was Argonians who were immune to poison AND could water breathe; two very useful abilities.

 

I think instead of just giving certain races more points in say, archery or block or what have you, give them substantial abilities such as the Argonians'.

 

Example:

 

Dark Elf: +25% damage with Destruction Magic and Archery

 

By making them more distinctive you also get more distinctive game play styles...

 

What say you?

[LordWushin]

I believe I read somewhere that the races abilities and stats are all the same as they have always been. I can't find the reference tho.

[Bloodinfested]

I am hoping that there is no immunity that is way too godly Over powered for my taste at most maybe 70% resistance would be fine even that is a lot imo

[Alcrin]

Call me crazy, but I think race should be a purely cosmetic thing just like hair and eye color are. Why? Because you choose your race at the start of the game before you begin playing. If the differences in race matter mechanically, then you're having the player make a gameplay decision before they've even started the game. A decision they won't be able to change later if they decide they'd prefer a playstyle that their character is poorly fit to execute. Classes were dumped for this reason. Edited August 19, 2011 by Alcrin

[Corakus]

I believe they said that aside from having the same movement speed and jump height, that the racial differences would remain mostly the same.That might not have been their exact words but was their implication.

[AxeAlot]

I always thought racial abilites were very cool and I want them to stay in but I was hoping that they might be a little refined; one of example of this was Argonians who were immune to poison AND could water breathe; two very useful abilities.

 

I think instead of just giving certain races more points in say, archery or block or what have you, give them substantial abilities such as the Argonians'.

 

Example:

 

Dark Elf: +25% damage with Destruction Magic and Archery

 

By making them more distinctive you also get more distinctive game play styles...

 

What say you?

 

I like that very much! lol

[Vagrant0]

Call me crazy, but I think race should be a purely cosmetic thing just like hair and eye color are.

Yep, you're crazy...

 

The races are what essentially decided your early level play based on starting skills and your ability. The racial abilities are designed in a way where they aren't particularly useful at higher levels, but can save your skin at lower ones. As such, like birthsigns were, it really is only a choice which matters in the beginning of the game.

 

Half the replay value is also in trying different races and playstyles. if you make races purely cosmetic, there really isn't much point in playing through the game more than once since it's exactly the same in the beginning unless you purposely limit yourself to just using bows, ect.

 

In many ways, this premise of having race/gender not mean anything other than cosmetics in RPG games is probably the reason why so many of them lately have been overly bland. There is a difference between being merely defined by a race, and using a race as a basis for a character but not being limited by it. Without this aspect, there is no internal challenge to cross, and when handled right, it makes the character seem that much better. RPGs aren't just a game played in a computer, but they're a game played in our heads as we ask ourselves how that character (even if a mirror of us) would respond.

[Alcrin]

The races are what essentially decided your early level play based on starting skills and your ability. The racial abilities are designed in a way where they aren't particularly useful at higher levels, but can save your skin at lower ones. As such, like birthsigns were, it really is only a choice which matters in the beginning of the game.

 

Half the replay value is also in trying different races and playstyles. if you make races purely cosmetic, there really isn't much point in playing through the game more than once since it's exactly the same in the beginning unless you purposely limit yourself to just using bows, ect.

 

Two things:

 

1. Why not let the player's in-game play decisions decide their early level playstyle, rather than a menu selection they won't be fully informed of on the first playthrough? Choices like that can only be responsibly made when you know the full consequences of each choice. Lemme give a personal story: I chose Marksman as my only weapon skill in Morrowind, thinking I could go around sniping things, then discovering I had to make a random attack roll to hit with the arrows in addition to aiming so I gave up and just went around bashing things with a sword, my major skill going totally to waste. Racial bonuses aren't as big as major skill bonuses but it's only a difference of degree. I eventually restarted the game and made a less useless character but is that really a good thing? Do we want players to have to restart the game a few times before they get something they can enjoy the game with? Removing classes was a step in the right direction toward solving this problem, and removing Racial differences would be for the exact same reasons.

 

2. By your own admission, racial differences only matter at the beginning. Does it really add so much to the game that you can make a save file as every race to see what it's like to play as one? There are far more fruitful avenues to increasing the amount of fun that can be had from the game, I think.

[Vagrant0]

Do we want players to have to restart the game a few times before they get something they can enjoy the game with?

People will likely do this anyway. If not some point after chargen, then the first time they are pressed with some other decision. Either people make mistakes and learn from them. You wouldn't want a story that removed your ability to make decisions, even if there was some chance that the result might not be what you want... Take SI for example. Part of what made that expansion fun was deciding who to side with. Sure, there were some who didn't want to decide, but it was your decision that changed how events played out, atleast in part. Sure, when you have decisions the player has to make, you open up the chance for someone to make a decision they regret... But without that, you just have a story on rails... and those generally suck.

 

Although the narrative aspect is important, so is the gameplay one. The gameplay one is the part that is harder to ignore and which forces us to actually have to deal with the results of our decisions, for good or ill. Yes, I may have regretted siding with Bliss when I was someone who used heavy armor, but that didn't stop me from playing the game or making use of the better swords which were available to me. Likewise, in your decision of classes or starting skills, it didn't keep you from using other weapons, it just meant that you were better with bows at the start and used that stat as component for determining level.

 

Actually, one of the main strategies with TES games was to take skills you would rarely use, or were particularly bad at lower ranks as those for your class skills, and primarily use other ones so that you remained capable at any level instead of trying to micromanage your stats as you level so you don't get stuck in a corner unable to advance. Which is really why classes were taken out. It's not that it was a decision presented to players before they knew anything... It's because the system was broken to the point where taking skills you used made you level up too quick to cope with threats, and taking different skills was rather contrary to the very notion of classes.

 

In comparison... Unlike classes and even story decisions, decisions of race really don't change end-game or even major components of the game. If you pick a race with an ability you don't use or like, it doesn't break a character or even necessarily make it harder... it just gives you some extra ability that can help you out of sticky situations or before you build up magical talents to do the same things in other ways. Which is kinda why it isn't such an important decision. People still choose their race based primarily on the appearance, but the difference in starting skills and the ability is just icing on the cake. It's what gives you a basis for how to start that character.

 

Also, Skyrim really didn't get rid of classes, they just got rid of the part that suggests a lasting implication of them and gave the player a way to change their specialization as they play. Your main skills are still the ones which have the strongest impact on your level, and specialization is still the thing that determines which set of skills is easiest to raise. All they really got rid of was the exploit in mastering non-major skills at level 1 and beating the game by level 3.

 

Sure, they also got rid of the troublesome class definitions, but really, those havn't fit very well since Daggerfall when dozens of skills were removed, and fit even less in Oblivion when skills were trimmed down further where the difference between two classes might be 1 or 2 skills, and usually not important ones. If anything, all classes led to was this assumption that class skills were meant to be the only ones you ever used... Which in the case of one or two classes, meant having absolutely no offensive skills. TES games have always been open-ended, so all a class traditionally meant was what skills you focused on or were initially skilled in.

[IAMASNAFU]

I like the idea of Race abilities, i read somewhere that the bosmer has the ability of like "animal friend" or something, whether they've gone beyond just a spell that lets u control animals or if it is permanent trait of that character where wild animals arnt going to attack u i don't know.

 

I think its good because different characters have different "traits" so I'd be more willing to try different ones out. Like the only reason I ever used a argonian (not a big fan) was that fact the could breath underwater, so i didn't have to use a water breathing spell or ring or something that let me breath under water. So the race abilities i think is a good idea, i do wish that they are more like; not some number that says this class is better with bows bu instead has some perk type thing that makes you better with bows (Faster draw time or something *quick thought*)