At what time does parental discipline become abusive and who should ma

[Sepherose]

When I was younger I often got out of line with my parents. Neither of my parents physically abused me, but that doesn't mean that I didn't receive corporal punishment. My dad sometimes would just press down on one of my pressure points (like behind the ear) until I stopped. My parents also explained to me why what I was doing was wrong, and I think they did a decent enough of a job at it. I think punishment has to be flexible based on the type of behavior and it has to be consistent. Parents also need to be better role models or they will just breed bad behavior into their children. That is how we teach them what is right and wrong.

 

I also believe that some children are just born rotten to the core and that is where most of society's most troublesome come from. DNA is also factor in behavior, not just environmental factors alone.

 

Wow.... really? Now, I'm not saying that all kids are born good, but not many are born "rotten to the core" as you put it, nor are many born that are "saintly", for lack of a better word. Children could easily be naturally inclined to go one direction or another, but you can condition them, without violence or abuse, to be good people. In the end, environment and conditioning trump certain genetic traits (not all though).

[zegh8578]

in my opinion hitting kids should have to do with functionality, more than how "sacred" kids are or arent...

 

truth is, hitting has about as much practical applicability as yelling has, which is close to zero. kids are defiant by nature, and all methods of discipline are going to be tedious and fifficult - by default.

thus, the method that has the best _actual results_ are (?unfortunately) the long-lasting conversation, explanation, talking to the kid.

 

this method is "boring" tho, and takes a long time. and often the kid will defy their parents anyway, and people are quick to judge the method ineffective (mainly cus it was so boring) and go back to yelling and/or hitting (even if these have no lasting effect either)

 

like i said on another forum

if

A) hitting

and

B) explaining

has a similar efficiency (close to zero, if the kid is defiant a lot), but

A) has possible serious reprecussions

and

B) has no such possible reprecussions

 

you should always pick B.

Edited January 8, 2012 by zegh8578

[Deleted1744345User]

Wow.... really? Now, I'm not saying that all kids are born good, but not many are born "rotten to the core" as you put it, nor are many born that are "saintly", for lack of a better word. Children could easily be naturally inclined to go one direction or another, but you can condition them, without violence or abuse, to be good people. In the end, environment and conditioning trump certain genetic traits (not all though).

I didn't say that many children are born rotten to the core. I know my style of writing (if you can call it that) can sometimes confuse people. What I mean is that IMO, the worst of the worst are usually born that way. I am also fully aware that people can be conditioned, to an extent. Just like how you domesticate animals.

[Sepherose]

Wow.... really? Now, I'm not saying that all kids are born good, but not many are born "rotten to the core" as you put it, nor are many born that are "saintly", for lack of a better word. Children could easily be naturally inclined to go one direction or another, but you can condition them, without violence or abuse, to be good people. In the end, environment and conditioning trump certain genetic traits (not all though).

I didn't say that many children are born rotten to the core. I know my style of writing (if you can call it that) can sometimes confuse people. What I mean is that IMO, the worst of the worst are usually born that way. I am also fully aware that people can be conditioned, to an extent. Just like how you domesticate animals.

 

But that implies that no amount of conditioning can correct it, which is not true, that is the wonder of free will. We can choose to acknowledge what is wrong according to society, then we can choose to accept that or to throw it out the window and do it anyway.

[Nintii]

A loot of posts identifies physical abuses in this topic but how about Psychological Abuses, additionally with Black Pedagogy / Poisonous Pedagogy?

The damage is to a child's soul can be disastrous and last a whole life. Is it a crime as some people see it or is it a parents right to do this to a child ? Where is the border from normal behaviour to an abusive non physical harming behaviour to a child?

 

What I find amusing is that people tend to think that a child's brains are in their bottoms ... a good spanking will therefore produce brain damage, what nonsense.

A clay pot does not just manifest from a lump, you have to mold it ... to much pressure and it simply won't form properly, but pressure and effort to the desired form

must take place.

It's all "the bleeding hearts and artists" that have led this world to produce a generation of children who are going to "reach within themselves" and know what to do.

There is nothing within them to start with, they have no life experience, this isn't the Matrix where you go and get a "Neo" traing program uploaded into your brain and now

with your "inner" knowledge you draw from the "well within" ... children don't have a "well within" to draw from because they have no reference to consult.

You the parent are the reference so get some knowledge on parenting and enforce it ... tough love is good love that produces children that are self-controlled and very little

discipline as they get older.

The communists used say that if you give me a child for the first eight years then I have that child for the rest of their life ... why ? ... because the first eight are the years that determine

the way that child will grow up and what they will believe.

I don't have kids but I can clearly see those friends of mine who exercised discipline in their homes and those that did not ... the difference is like chalk and cheese.

 

To briefly address the topic subject ... Blood, if you see blood then it's abuse.

 

No honestly ... it's abuse when;

 

1) there is bloodshed ... that was an easy one.

 

2) When there is sensory deprivation during discipline.

 

3) When there is constant verbal abuse as in swearing and cursing and belittling the child ... "you're stupid good for nothing" type stuff.

 

4) When you hit the child because you're angry with your spuse, boyfriend whatever ... there should always be a reason for hitting your child as in them breaking a rule ... you should always tell your child why they are receiving discipline, "Because I told you that this would happen if you did that" ... there must be a reason ... and never just hit for the sake of hitting.

 

5) Also using your children as tools against your spouse, loved one etc., ... One of my friends does this and so to does her husband, they use the children in their "war" with each other ... this is abuse ... the kids get away with murder because the father allows it so that he can get "favor" with the kids while the mother who is trying to get order and discipline is fighting an uphill battle ... lopsided discipline ... you don't want to go into a household like that.

 

But on the whole the people living in the cities are normally ... i said normally, not always, less disciplined ... those who are more country folk or live in tight knit communities amongst their own kind - as in culture, and i say that respectfully ... always ternd to have more discipline.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Nintii

[myrmaad]

We have a rule, "hands to yourself". It applies to everyone. You can certainly have very strong discipline and never lay an angry hand on your children. (That requires you to model self-discipline.)

[Nintii]

We have a rule, "hands to yourself". It applies to everyone. You can certainly have very strong discipline and never lay an angry hand on your children. (That requires you to model self-discipline.)

 

There is no doubt that this type of discipline starts with self ... I suppose that this depends on the following;

 

1) You yourself would have been under some form of discipline,

 

2) Been personaly disciplined in this fashion yourself,

 

3) Have been a witness to this type of discipline.

 

Because, to achieve this type of control in and of yourself is quite simply rare ... rarer still is this just adopted from a book, no, when emotions are involved this type of behavior is adopted by

experience or observation.

Well that's that's how i see it anyway ... I doubt I could do it from some manual ... and from what I've seen from my friends who have kids, they simply did not have the gumption to do it themselves

or follow through.

 

Though I have a tremendous amount of self dicipline born out of business principles and observation and training by a mentor, of which I can say much - mentorship being a secret weapon in my personal growth ... I had a boss that I worked for for years that actually took the time to train me and build values and ethics into my life.

I owe him a huge debt.

My way of training my children would be based on a system of rewards and delayed gratification.

 

p.s - Thank you for understanding that when I say "you" it's a "for whoever out who reads this type of YOU", and not a personal "you", as has been misconstrued by others in this debates forum before.

 

Lastly (I always have a lastly), it is most unfortunate that in todays society, that many parents simply don't exercise discipline at all or refuse to because, "I cannot hurt my darling child", but they

have no alternative trainng or measures in place either.

 

How does "At what time does NO PARENTAL DISCIPLINE become abusive" sound.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Nintii

[Aurielius]

How does "At what time does NO PARENTAL DISCIPLINE become abusive" sound.

If you have ever been on a long trans oceanic flight with an uncontrolled brat being coddled by their 'new age ' parents..it sounds fine. :whistling:

[myrmaad]

How does "At what time does NO PARENTAL DISCIPLINE become abusive" sound.

 

 

Great point! I theorize it's why we have a world that seems to be in such trouble. Kids who have no boundaries, no parental limitations, no discipline at all show all signs of being abused by neglect, by the parental shirking of duties.

 

Also, you are right. I was raised in a house where my father's soft voice uncharacteristically raised scared the thunder out of me. I wish I could bottle it, because it works on all the grandkids and great grandkids too.

[Aurielius]

My father had a calm deadly tone that used to scare the daylights out of me, he never laid a finger on me ever but that voice made me sit up and take notice. I also attended a military school and and English boarding school that both utilized corporal punishment (of which I run afoul of) neither of them frightened me in the slightest.