Should people without health insurance, etc. be allowed to die?

[marharth]

The other reason why health insurance is so expensive is illegal immigration. It is why every border hospital in the country is bankrupt. That is why hospitals charge 10 dollars per cotton ball. Insurance companys are paying 10 dollars for a cotton ball and 15 dollars for a tongue depressor because they are the only ones paying a hospital bill ad thus keeping the hospital alive. In our border hospitals, 85-90% of the patients are illegal immigrants who do not pay for anything, and insurance companys are picking up the tab.

This is entirely false.

 

I live near the southern border in California, I can assure you my hospitals are doing fine. Is there any studies or anything you can link to that can prove those claims? Seeing as I live rather close to the border and I have never in my life paid 10 dollars for a cotton ball or 15 dollars for a tongue depressor, I feel those claims are completely falsified. I can also assure you that 90 percent of people who visit my hospital are not illegal immigrants.

[PowderdToastMan]

The other reason why health insurance is so expensive is illegal immigration. It is why every border hospital in the country is bankrupt. That is why hospitals charge 10 dollars per cotton ball. Insurance companys are paying 10 dollars for a cotton ball and 15 dollars for a tongue depressor because they are the only ones paying a hospital bill ad thus keeping the hospital alive. In our border hospitals, 85-90% of the patients are illegal immigrants who do not pay for anything, and insurance companys are picking up the tab.

This is entirely false.

 

I live near the southern border in California, I can assure you my hospitals are doing fine. Is there any studies or anything you can link to that can prove those claims? Seeing as I live rather close to the border and I have never in my life paid 10 dollars for a cotton ball or 15 dollars for a tongue depressor, I feel those claims are completely falsified. I can also assure you that 90 percent of people who visit my hospital are not illegal immigrants.

 

That is what they charge the insruance. Not an individual. Depending on the laws of your state the hospital will "settle" with an individual. and their prices are different - but that is hospital exclusive.

 

An 2,000 dollar ambulance bill that includes 200 dollars to install an IV, and 15 bucks for gauze is about the only way you will be exposed to what insurance companys actually pay.

 

a lot of people assuming things here. And - because you've never seen it - is not a reason to assume the latter. That just means you dont have experience in what your trying to debate.

 

Edit*

also, i would suggest you try walking in the front door of a public hospital in southern california if you really think that there is no issue.

[marharth]

The other reason why health insurance is so expensive is illegal immigration. It is why every border hospital in the country is bankrupt. That is why hospitals charge 10 dollars per cotton ball. Insurance companys are paying 10 dollars for a cotton ball and 15 dollars for a tongue depressor because they are the only ones paying a hospital bill ad thus keeping the hospital alive. In our border hospitals, 85-90% of the patients are illegal immigrants who do not pay for anything, and insurance companys are picking up the tab.

This is entirely false.

 

I live near the southern border in California, I can assure you my hospitals are doing fine. Is there any studies or anything you can link to that can prove those claims? Seeing as I live rather close to the border and I have never in my life paid 10 dollars for a cotton ball or 15 dollars for a tongue depressor, I feel those claims are completely falsified. I can also assure you that 90 percent of people who visit my hospital are not illegal immigrants.

 

That is what they charge the insruance. Not an individual. Depending on the laws of your state the hospital will "settle" with an individual. and their prices are different - but that is hospital exclusive.

 

An 2,000 dollar ambulance bill that includes 200 dollars to install an IV, and 15 bucks for gauze is about the only way you will be exposed to what insurance companys actually pay.

 

a lot of people assuming things here. And - because you've never seen it - is not a reason to assume the latter. That just means you dont have experience in what your trying to debate.

 

Edit*

also, i would suggest you try walking in the front door of a public hospital in southern california if you really think that there is no issue.

 

I live in the exact area where you claim that hospitals are nearly bankrupt. If nearly every border hospital was bankrupt I would know. I am telling you right now that it is not like that at all. I haven't seen it because it does not exist.

[HeyYou]

@ Hey you

 

You do not know what you are talking about.

 

I can tell you from experience and first hand knowledge that you are wrong. Malpractice insurance is not even close to a major factor in why services cost so much.

 

The majority of money charged by the doctor does not go to malpractice insurance. That is a small fraction of the cost. You have been misled or simply assumed incorrectly.

 

A doctors office is a for-profit company, and they do all those unnecessary services because people understand that they are not picking up the tab. Which was my point that you completley ignored. - Ostrich technique i suppose.

 

IF you paid for every service out of pocket, you would pick and choose what you could afford.

 

The other reason why health insurance is so expensive is illegal immigration. It is why every border hospital in the country is bankrupt. That is why hospitals charge 10 dollars per cotton ball. Insurance companys are paying 10 dollars for a cotton ball and 15 dollars for a tongue depressor because they are the only ones paying a hospital bill ad thus keeping the hospital alive. In our border hospitals, 85-90% of the patients are illegal immigrants who do not pay for anything, and insurance companys are picking up the tab.

 

Please do not assume the things you conjure up in your head are correct.

 

Really? I don't? You mean, all those nurses that I talked to that got out of the field because malpractice insurance was so expensive were lying to me? I am stunned......

 

On a more serious note, malpractice insurance IS an issue. (ok, where I am it is...... maybe not where you are.) And yes, insurance companies take it up the rear, as they are indeed the only ones that *reliably* pay the bills. But, if you think the doctor is making anything from sending you to the hospital for an MRI, Catscan, whathaveyou, you are mistaken. The only services the doc charges you for are the ones that he, or HIS staff, actually perform. If you go to the hospital (not your doctors office) for lab work, additional tests, etc, the doc is NOT making money off of that. He is covering his ass.

 

Bear in mind, I spend a LOT of time in hospitals..... I talk to EVERYONE there...... I base my information from what I hear from people that actually work in the field. The range goes from 3rd year med students, to department heads. The story is pretty much the same. (aside from the students.... they don't have that concern yet, residents do though.)

 

I will also agree that illegal immigrants do indeed drive up healthcare costs. The contribute nothing to the system, and are only a drain. The very definition of "parasite". if I had my way, they would get minimum care to stabilize them for transport, and then they would be transported BACK to their country of origin. Same goes for any other government assistance program, if you are here illegally, you do NOT qualify. You get a one-way ticket home. THAT would save a boatload of money.

[PowderdToastMan]

@heyyou

 

Ive worked in the medical field extensively and am now in law enforcment in that field, and i can tell you that you are incorrect.

 

Lets take for example a 50,000 dollar surgery that takes 6 hours at a hospital. You haved been duped into believing that a decent portion of all that money goes to Malpractice insurance? sure, its expensive and costs several thousand dollars a year depending on your field; but that is 50 grand for the work of 8 or 9 people in the span of less than a day. Not even a small percentage of that goes towards malpractice insurance. It goes to keeping the hospital alive financially due to all the people not paying.

 

Lets say that malpractice insurance was actually 1 percent of that bill. that would be 500 dollars. And like my veterinary coparison earlier that same procedure in a land without health insurance at a private practice would cost around 1000 to 2000 dollars. So tacking on that 500 bucks of malpractice insurance makes it 2500 at max. Thats a stark contrast to the 50,000 dollars the hospital charged for the procedure.

 

And "because a nurse told me so" really?

[draconix]

The other reason why health insurance is so expensive is illegal immigration. It is why every border hospital in the country is bankrupt.

I live less than 3 hours from the border, none of the hospitals around here are bankrupt. Probably because it's the northern border. :teehee:

 

@Marharth, assuming you do live in Southern California near the border, since I have no reason to doubt you, you still have to admit that the California border is a pretty small border, comparatively when you consider other states with more border to worry about, like Texas or Arizona. What I mean to say is that it is possible that there is rampant bankruptcy of hospitals on the border overall, yet in your city or town, there may be relatively less bankruptcy. Particularly if you are in a larger city with more people who can provide the (insurance)cash-flow to keep the hospital afloat. I would think that a smaller town with a single hospital would be more heavily affected by such issues. But I'm no expert.

 

However I do agree that we wouldn't want to take PTM's claims at face value, as they are extraordinary. Are there studies or statistical evidence (from non-biased sources) to support (or refute) the claim?

[marharth]

The other reason why health insurance is so expensive is illegal immigration. It is why every border hospital in the country is bankrupt.

I live less than 3 hours from the border, none of the hospitals around here are bankrupt. Probably because it's the northern border. :teehee:

 

@Marharth, assuming you do live in Southern California near the border, since I have no reason to doubt you, you still have to admit that the California border is a pretty small border, comparatively when you consider other states with more border to worry about, like Texas or Arizona. What I mean to say is that it is possible that there is rampant bankruptcy of hospitals on the border overall, yet in your city or town, there may be relatively less bankruptcy. Particularly if you are in a larger city with more people who can provide the (insurance)cash-flow to keep the hospital afloat. I would think that a smaller town with a single hospital would be more heavily affected by such issues. But I'm no expert.

 

However I do agree that we wouldn't want to take PTM's claims at face value, as they are extraordinary. Are there studies or statistical evidence (from non-biased sources) to support (or refute) the claim?

While it is true that California's border is not very large, it is still one of the easiest methods of getting into the country. I am not positive, but I am pretty sure that Texas and Arizona both have stronger border security then California.

[PowderdToastMan]

@hey

you

Addendum - nurses may be getting out of the field because of malpractice insurance, and i diddnt adress that. sorry

 

 

but the issue of why everything costs so much, is the point of what i am talking about.

 

As far as you talking about doctors sending people to hospitals for services, i never spoke anything about that and dont know where you got it.

[PowderdToastMan]

Sorry,

 

85-90 percent is people without health insurance at hospitals, bit in some of the hospitals here in houston, which is nothing but illlegals, that is the case.

 

the houston area has between 700,000 and a million illegals living in this area. All of which use the hospital, not for emergency services, but as their private practice physican, and none of them pay a penny for it. As i work for the health department here, we have WIC clinics here for child services and i can assertively say that 85 to 90 percent of the people who use the free services of the wic clinics that we run are illegal immigrants.

[HeyYou]

The other reason why health insurance is so expensive is illegal immigration. It is why every border hospital in the country is bankrupt.

I live less than 3 hours from the border, none of the hospitals around here are bankrupt. Probably because it's the northern border. :teehee:

 

@Marharth, assuming you do live in Southern California near the border, since I have no reason to doubt you, you still have to admit that the California border is a pretty small border, comparatively when you consider other states with more border to worry about, like Texas or Arizona. What I mean to say is that it is possible that there is rampant bankruptcy of hospitals on the border overall, yet in your city or town, there may be relatively less bankruptcy. Particularly if you are in a larger city with more people who can provide the (insurance)cash-flow to keep the hospital afloat. I would think that a smaller town with a single hospital would be more heavily affected by such issues. But I'm no expert.

 

However I do agree that we wouldn't want to take PTM's claims at face value, as they are extraordinary. Are there studies or statistical evidence (from non-biased sources) to support (or refute) the claim?

While it is true that California's border is not very large, it is still one of the easiest methods of getting into the country. I am not positive, but I am pretty sure that Texas and Arizona both have stronger border security then California.

 

I think the miles of desert, with nothing even remotely resembling civilization around may have something to do with it. :D

 

 

Sorry,

 

85-90 percent is people without health insurance at hospitals, bit in some of the hospitals here in houston, which is nothing but illlegals, that is the case.

 

the houston area has between 700,000 and a million illegals living in this area. All of which use the hospital, not for emergency services, but as their private practice physican, and none of them pay a penny for it. As i work for the health department here, we have WIC clinics here for child services and i can assertively say that 85 to 90 percent of the people who use the free services of the wic clinics that we run are illegal immigrants.

 

Consider the amount of money the government would save, by NOT spending it on illegals.