Can I do this with two mods? (Simple goal, long explanation)

[Striker879]

I think you'd have Glenvar as the active file left as an esp and Red Rose as the esmified master while you're editing Glenvar, but keep in mind we're venturing far outside the stone tools here, into the world of sharp knives, maybe even power tools. Any ideas I'm offering stem from reading about vs. doing. The problem I foresee about trying to do what you're asking this way is that I believe that Red Rose would always need to be installed after that for your edited Glenvar to work. I think you can get away with only having it installed as normal in your Data files but not activated in the launcher Data Files for the exterior part to show at Glenvar. That would give you only one Red Rose in Tamriel but no interior etc. If you have Red Rose activated in Data Files you'll have two Red Rose exteriors unless you can delete the one in the original Red Rose and use the one in your edited Glenvar AND not break the interior and quests for Red Rose. We're talking about stuff way above my pay grade here.

[miketheratguy]

I'm just confused as to why I'd need to include Glenvar at all. Granted, I want to ultimately use both so that the exterior of RRM is right there next to Glenvar- I intend to play both at the same time, assuming I can eventually get this project to work. But I don't know why I'd need GC to be a part of the actual modding at all.

 

Here's what I mean, because I know this probably sounds ridiculous:

 

The whole time I was doing this- moving RRM to its new location- I was only loading Glenvar Castle with it as a point of reference. Glenvar flattens the land on which it sits and also provides me with the castle so I can actually see where I need to place the RMM exterior. Glenvar has a huge outdoor courtyard and this is where I intend to put RMM. If I didn't have Glenvar loaded when moving RRM, I wouldn't know the exact coordinates to drop the building nor the correct elevation. BUT, since I only have Glenvar loaded as a visual reference and am not touching or editing it in any way, I don't know that I would need both mods to be merged or modifed; just RMM.

 

I suppose I could get on that other computer, load both mods, relocate the RMM exterior, and write down its new coordinates. From then on I'd at least know the right spot to drop it having to have Glenvar loaded at the same time. But THEN I'd be back to my original issue- fixing (or in this example, getting around) RMM's damage.

 

I mean, can't an esp somehow be altered (or renamed, or saved, or whatever) BEFORE the construction set so I can have a new copy of it to work with? My computer has apparently decided to lock my damage to the original RMM mod. Surely there's something that can be changed to make the CS view it as a fresh new plugin. Nothing else seems to be working.

 

I appreciate your help Striker but based on your situation I guess I'm asking anybody who reads this. You really should unionize, get a pay raise, and buy some sharp tools! :)

[Keirgarth]

Go to control panel/folder options and click on the view tab. In there you will see options to show hidden files and folders as well as to show extensions of known file types. As for where you created the games folder, I am almost certain that this falls into the control of the UAC still. Create a folder labeled Games in the root of your C: drive. Install there. Let us know how it works out.

[miketheratguy]

Uninstalled the game completely using the disc, ran ccleaner, reinstalled Oblivion to C:\Games, installed SI and the patch, installed the construction set. Still messed up.

 

I did enable the "show extensions of known file type" in addition to "show hidden files and folders" which I already enabled last night, so I guess I can view everything but I wouldn't know what to delete if anything.

 

Sigh. Any thoughts on what to try next?

[Striker879]

As far as I know any mods you want to edit with the CS need to have the esp located in the Oblivion\Data folder. That Data folder is kind of special to the game. The paths it looks for different types of assets are all hard coded into the game engine (which is why the common mistake of pasting a meshes folder into a meshes folder so that you have Oblivion\Data\meshes\meshes\MyArmor will always result in missing meshes for a mod installation ... the game looks in Oblivion\Data\meshes but can't find the MyArmor folder and so won't display the meshes). The game also loads all of the assets located in Oblivion\Data at startup, so even unticked esp files and meshes and textures from deactivated mods that have had their esp removed but not the nif and dds files are loaded. I have a Backup folder that's completely outside my Data folder for that reason. What I'm leading up to here is I don't see any reason that making a copy of Red Rose Manor's esp and renaming it will have any consequences provided you locate your backup copy of the original outside your Data folder. If the original Red Rose isn't in the Data folder the game or CS won't find it. Now whether that will make any difference to your problem is another matter, but you won't know if you don't try.

 

As for the which mod to edit issue, an esp is simply recording the changes that have been made to a master file (the esm that's listed when you make a mod active in the CS, normally Oblivion.esm). An esp can't make changes to another esp and have the game find the changes. The game loads the esm masters, then esp files and alters what it has in memory from the masters based on the edits recorded in the esp and associated with it's registered master. The smoke and mirrors that Wrye Bash and TES4Edit use are to get around this master must be an esm situation. In your case it's figuring out which esp should be esmified and which should be edited is the big brain problem. Perhaps using Red Rose as the esmified master but recording your edits in your own MyRedRose.esp is the answer, so that MyRedRose.esp is recording the changes you've made to Red Rose and all you use Glenvar for is the cell number and x y z coordinates to locate the Red Rose exterior.

 

The other caveat I have to offer is, has the cell for Glenvar been renamed (in other words, in the CS does the cell it sits in come up as Wilderness cell such and such or does it come up as Glenvar such and such). The reason I ask is that one way of getting around extensive landscaping (an onerous task, believe me) is to replace a wilderness cell with a 'redirect' to a new cell that's easy to edit (probably not the correct term as memory is sometimes patchy but the concept is solid). If Glenvar has done this then you can't simply drop Red Rose at coordinates x y z in Wilderness cell such and such and have it appear when Glenvar is loaded. You'll be able to tell by loading Glenvar in the CS and seeing what the cell name comes up as. The Aranmathi I've tweaked has it's exterior located in a vanilla wilderness cell, so any edits I've done to the exterior are done by loading the correct wilderness cell, not a special AranmathiExterior cell.

 

While your goal may be simple, you're probably getting the idea that achieving it may not be so simple. You may also be getting a notion of why I avoid sharp tools ... they can do more damage (now where did that finger drop when I 'trimmed' it).

[miketheratguy]

Although I'm still kind of confused, I can't recall if the worldspace that Glenvar castle occupies had a unique name or not. I'd have to re-download it and try loading it up again in the CS to see.

 

I do know that what you're talking about sounds about right to what I need to do: Simply find the spot where I wanted to drop the RRM exterior, track down its coordinates, then simply edit RRM (by itself) and give the new coordinates to the buildin's exterior (which I think can be done, right?). Presumably, if I do this on the "uncorrupted" computer- move RRM's exterior to my preferred coordinates- then save the mod with a different name- I should be able to bring it to my "corrupted" computer and install it, where it will be viewed as a totally new mod, right?

 

-Actually maybe not. I renamed the RRM esp and BSA to "MikeRedRoseManor" and the damn thing still won't work.

 

This is getting to the point of absolute ridiculousness. What am I doing wrong? How can ONE crash of the CS, which apparently I was helpless to prevent, have permanently scarred this mod to the end of eternity?!?!?

[Striker879]

Are you using a freshly downloaded copy of Red Rose and still running into this? When I'm replacing any files I always delete or move the old file to backup before I copy the new file (i.e. I don't overwrite, but I'm just particular that way ... or maybe some would say peculiar).

[miketheratguy]

I hadn't used another fresh download on this most recent install, but last week when I was talking to the others it was suggested that I try a fresh download of the mod and that didn't change anything (overwrite or otherwise). Edited October 1, 2011 by miketheratguy

[Keirgarth]

Did you clear everything out of your "My Documents" folder as well to be sure there wouldn't be any problems when you reinstalled? Another thing, when you installed the CS, where did it get installed? There might have been left over files in that install folder as well.

[miketheratguy]

I first uninstalled the game using the disc, then deleted (or backed up into separate folder and deleted) my saves, my mods, and a few Oblivion files in the previously hidden C:\Mike\user\appdata\local folder. Basically I deleted every Oblivion folder I could find. Then I ran ccleaner, and uninstalled everything from the CS to OBMM to OBSE. I tested the new install using only what was required- the game, SI, the SI patch, Red Rose Manor, and the CS. I left all my saves and other files in their relocated, renamed places.

 

I do believe that there's some hidden residue of the old game or CS install (well, obviously), I just can't seem to find and eliminate it despite what I thought were pretty thorough efforts.