The story in Lonesome Road

[Sepherose]

Again thats not what we are talking about Sepherose. We are talking about long term infiltration and integration into Caesar's Legion by a large number of people in the Enclave. Just because The Courier can do it does not mean the Enclave can The Courier is a "Hero" after all...

 

Of course its very hard to argue against this when you guys arent saying how they would infiltrate the Legion your just saying they could...

 

No one but you has said anything about a large number of people. But I'll point out that it would be exceptionally easy for an ex-Enclave soldier to integrate into the Legion. I say this because the Legion and the Enclave have very similar mindsets about outsiders: They are either with them, or against them. That is that. Enclave soldiers are highly trained individuals as well, and their expertise might even get them an easy in if they were to simply prove themselves after stating they were part of the Enclave. That is even more of a draw for them. The Legion would be likely to accept them into their ranks simply because the Enclave has such bad blood with the NCR. Doesn't mean they wouldn't be kept on a short leash, but it does mean they have a chance to earn trust and respect within the ranks of the Legion. All the while, they very well could have an ulterior motive.

[Fallout10mm]

I have extreme douts that anyone in the enclave would even think about joining the legion. Legion is ultra low tech, Enclave? Pinicle of technology. Legion is about throwing away all the crutchs that (they think) are holding humanity back, Robots, Firearms, Modern Medicine. Enclave were all about restoring america back to its prewar glory. Remember what they say about the legion, if you were in one of the tribes that was conquered, they killed every mature male, and enslaved everyone else.

 

The only reason you (the courier) are allowed to join is because Ceaser himself thinks your worthy and can carry out his will west of the Colorado (Like he says about the bunker, he cant send his boys down there as they wouldn't know what to do) basicly he wants you to become a Frumentari, who unlike the main legion, actually do all the dirty work and get to use forbidden technology and knowledge, not quite unlike Ulysses.

 

Now back to the topic, Where did this package come from: Ulysses doesn't know, the reason is because they left it open for you to decide, he does however say that it had familiar markings, similer but not the same as those in the Divide, that you found it somewhere out west (perhaps Navarro or another abandoned Enclave outpost) and for whatever reason decided to bring it back to the Divide with you, which once you arrived, somehow activated and began broadcasting the self destruct codes to the underground missiles (or perhaps just the launch codes and the doors were stuck shut), the question I want to bring up is What exactly did Big MT do to Hopesville in the first place (something to do with the weather I suppose) and why wasnt hopesville destroyed during the war (from what I can tell it seemed like most of the damage to the area was caused by you, not the war)

[minngarm]

I dont recall him wording it as you decided to bring it back, more so that you were hired to deliver it is what i gathered from the sum of the conversations. There was no true reason to go to the divide other than when delivering or passing through it.

 

As for the possibility of Enclave infiltrating the Legion, again its highly likely. The first thing you should do when encountering a rising powerful force that may appose you is send in scouts to assess(sp) and infiltrate its ranks. With the Enclaves tactics of raising their own and not really recruiting from without, they could easily send in a well trained child to grow up into the ranks of the legion and thus mesh in to gather details to report back via markers, drop locations, or by sneaking off when the time was right basicly.

 

You just have to put some thought into it and youll realize that every group that accepts any none "native" borns into its ranks is accepting spies. Then theres always the easy possibility that some of the Legions own "true sons" could have been bribed.

[marharth]

Children have to be captured as slaves to join the legion. I doubt a child could keep his mental guard up well into adulthood.

[ModelV]

Children have to be captured as slaves to join the legion. I doubt a child could keep his mental guard up well into adulthood.

 

What he said^

 

 

The chances of a child spy successfully integrating the Legion and very low. The Enclave could brainwash a child but thats 2 or 3 years of brainwash vs growing up in the Legion. Then you have the low survival rate in the Legion so the child is very likely to die.

 

 

Oh and your still forgetting about how rank in the Legion works which is not given like normal ranks in NCR or Enclave rank in the Legion is given by ability in Combat which further reduces odd of the spy getting anywhere.

 

Plus the child has to remember how to contact the Enclave from age 7 with no notes, or radios, or anything because these would be found etc...

 

Chance of success: 1 in 100,000

 

 

@Sepherose

 

Twisted Hairs, White Legs read about them.

 

The Legion wont accept outsiders into their Ranks not in such a way at least. They would set up the Enclave as an ally then when the time is right betray them like they have time and time again.

Edited October 3, 2011 by ModelV

[minngarm]

White legs were not a part of the legion, nor were they going to be. Ulysseys set them up to think they would earn it by destroying the New Canaanites.

[Sepherose]

Children have to be captured as slaves to join the legion. I doubt a child could keep his mental guard up well into adulthood.

 

What he said^

 

 

The chances of a child spy successfully integrating the Legion and very low. The Enclave could brainwash a child but thats 2 or 3 years of brainwash vs growing up in the Legion. Then you have the low survival rate in the Legion so the child is very likely to die.

 

 

Oh and your still forgetting about how rank in the Legion works which is not given like normal ranks in NCR or Enclave rank in the Legion is given by ability in Combat which further reduces odd of the spy getting anywhere.

 

Plus the child has to remember how to contact the Enclave from age 7 with no notes, or radios, or anything because these would be found etc...

 

Chance of success: 1 in 100,000

 

 

@Sepherose

 

Twisted Hairs, White Legs read about them.

 

The Legion wont accept outsiders into their Ranks not in such a way at least. They would set up the Enclave as an ally then when the time is right betray them like they have time and time again.

 

 

I know about both of them, and I knew how Legion conquered the tribes before New Vegas was ever even hinted at. Try reading the Van Buren Design docs, specifically the ones about Legion. It is possible. I never said it was likely.

[ModelV]

White legs were not a part of the legion, nor were they going to be. Ulysseys set them up to think they would earn it by destroying the New Canaanites.

God damn it i need to stop making a new game every damn time a new DLC comes out so i can play this stuff sooner.

 

Was Caesar involved or was he on his own? Dont explain if he was on his own.

 

If Caesar was involved then who is to say they wouldnt pull the same thing with the Enclave?

 

I know about both of them, and I knew how Legion conquered the tribes before New Vegas was ever even hinted at. Try reading the Van Buren Design docs, specifically the ones about Legion. It is possible. I never said it was likely.

 

I think i just won.

[marharth]

White legs were not a part of the legion, nor were they going to be. Ulysseys set them up to think they would earn it by destroying the New Canaanites.

Wasn't he part of the legion at the time?

 

If so, the previous statement he made still stands.

 

The legion pretends to help people, but betrays them. Since Ulsseys was part of the legion, it might be still been the legion tricking them correct?

[Fallout10mm]

The white legs were set up from the begining by Ullysses, who as a legion Frumentarii was ordered to destroy any NCR resistance or Allies (Such as the New Canaanites) via the White legs. He lied to them saying the legion valued skill with firearms and other technology to get them to destroy New Cannan, who's walls had repelled previous attempts by the legion to destroy. Think of the Whitelegs as Irregular troops, or special forces for the Legion, They get sent in to do the dirty work a regular Legion force couldnt do with thier lowtech/notech weapons. Once the whitelegs had finished off the Canaanites they most likely would have been enslaved like every other tribe ceazer had as an ally, most adults butchered, tribal identity erased, children raised the legion way. Remember Ceaser doesn't have allies, only slaves (see what happened to the twisted hairs, what would happen to the Khans if they side with them).

 

The enclave have never really shown to utilize human gathering intelligence or spies for the most part, in thier war with the Brotherhood on the east coast was there ever a time you found or heard of a actual spy? Most likely they would ether pay merchants or use whats left of the sat network to gather what info they thought they needed.

 

Personally my opinion on what happened to the divide was whatever the courier found out west was the equivalent of a attack order on a wifi usb, ment to have been brought to the divide and used by the enclave to wipe out the NCR/Brotherhood incase the Airborne FEV didnt do it's job, only to have some kind of malfunction of the missiles themselves (or the silo doors) screw up their last ditch effort. Or a self destruct so that the NCR/Brotherhood wouldn't get a hold of a fully functional ICBM base. Like I said Lonesome road is ment to be open for interpretation, not to nail down a exact sequence of events, so you can have /some/ history but not be tethered to it.