marharth Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Traders don't seem to be allowed too far inside of the fort. Most secret information is kept by ceaser and people close to ceaser. I mean even simple plans to screw the great khans was kept in ceasers tent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepherose Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 Traders don't seem to be allowed too far inside of the fort. Most secret information is kept by ceaser and people close to ceaser. I mean even simple plans to screw the great khans was kept in ceasers tent. Except Cassidy, and Raul both make mention of traders being allowed free travel through the heart of Legion territory, and plans MUST be sent through the ranks, meaning there could always be a leak of intel somewhere. Also, the plans on how to deal with any enemy of the Legion must be sent through the ranks if they are to do anything about it. I seem to recall idle chatter about the Great Khans amongst the typical Legion troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minngarm Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Sounds like Seph hit the nail on the head, as he/she said, exceptions are made, and the examples in game show that its done so in a varid many ways. Besides with a mindset like that of the general legion population, there are bound to be many who want to take advantage to get the upper hand over each other. Its completely competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModelV Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Sounds like Seph hit the nail on the head, as he/she said, exceptions are made, and the examples in game show that its done so in a varid many ways. Besides with a mindset like that of the general legion population, there are bound to be many who want to take advantage to get the upper hand over each other. Its completely competitive. Im ignoring everything you say about the Legion since ive proven you dont know a lick about the Legion. @Sephorose Everything before this @tag^ is not directed at you same with the last post. A ballistic fist, thermic lance, and howitzer are only slightly more complicated then combustion ballistic small arms. Enclave however have Plasma weapons. Oh and the mole in the NCR was Legion before he was NCR they are THAT good at infiltration. He was sent to the NCR long before the conflict to act as a spy. Also eaves dropping as a trader is a lot different then what we were arguing about initially which was infiltration and integration into Legion ranks and power structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minngarm Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 You havent proven anything but that you read a wiki article I have not. Which being wiki, is open to public rewrites, and thus not able to be confirmed as fact. Sorry but any college freshman can tell you that wikipedia is not a valid source of information. Its the internet equivelant of asking Steve down the road. Now for what its worth, it very well could be valid and accurate, but until it can be confirmed from a reliable source theres no way of confirming it is. As for the tech, the thermic lance is a bit more complex than you make it out to be, but yes a ballistics fist could be developed fairly easy without any real training, you would just need a large supply of test subjects to try it out each time you modify it before finding a proper usable version. Cannons are also easier to develop than firearms, as minaturization(sp) is quite a hard feat to accomplish without a decent lab. Apparently though your too much of a Legion fan-boy to believe them to be human, if you think they can not be infiltrated or spied upon just as easily as others. All of the previous suggestions are not only viable, but proven successful in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Wikpeida and other wikis require you to cite sources. The way wiki's are supposed to work is that you check the sources to be sure they are valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModelV Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) My source isnt wikipedia my source is Dialogue with Joshua Graham, Caesar, and that one old ranger in camp golf(cant remember his name). And i carry the Old World flag not the Bull thank you very much. I just dont like people saying that the Legion are a bunch of idiotic raiders because thats simply not true. Dont underestimate your enemy. So in conclusion ive proved you dont know a thing about the Legion. Edited October 7, 2011 by ModelV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepherose Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 My source isnt wikipedia my source is Dialogue with Joshua Graham, Caesar, and that one old ranger in camp golf(cant remember his name). And i carry the Old World flag not the Bull thank you very much. I just dont like people saying that the Legion are a bunch of idiotic raiders because thats simply not true. Dont underestimate your enemy. So in conclusion ive proved you dont know a thing about the Legion. And never overestimate them as well. Which is exactly what you are doing. I choose a middle ground: The Legion would be tough to infiltrate, and tougher to integrate into, but it is possible. There is literally no reason it wouldn't be possible considering that you get to witness multiple times where exceptions were made to the typical rule of how one becomes a legionnaire. Ulysses is a good example of this, as he was conscripted, meaning he was at the very least a teenager. As is Lanius, he was brought into the Legion AFTER the battle of Hoover damn, this is evident because Graham never knew him. Also, it is no secret that Lanius hates Caesar. It is mentioned in game at least a few times. Even though he hates him, he still respects him. But these are two high profile cases where someone who actually has reason to completely screw the Legion are knowingly put directly into a position where they could. These two characters do prove my point that under the right circumstances, the Legion could be fooled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModelV Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Yes but not by the Enclave. Ulysses is an incredible scout and Lanius is a monster of a man they fit perfectly into the Legion vision of the perfect soldier due to their physical abilities the Enclave however are soft people due to intense use of power armor and advanced tech. Caesar would shun them just like the NCR as they are the perfect embodiment of the evils of humanity in Caesar's eyes even more so then the NCR. This is why i dont think the Enclave could do it but minngarm said it would be far easier to infiltrate the Legion then the NCR which is complete BS which is why the argument scaled to where it did but ive proven my point. The Legion arent infiltration proof but they almost certainly are from the Enclave at least in integration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepherose Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Yes but not by the Enclave. Ulysses is an incredible scout and Lanius is a monster of a man they fit perfectly into the Legion vision of the perfect soldier due to their physical abilities the Enclave however are soft people due to intense use of power armor and advanced tech. Caesar would shun them just like the NCR as they are the perfect embodiment of the evils of humanity in Caesar's eyes even more so then the NCR. This is why i dont think the Enclave could do it but minngarm said it would be far easier to infiltrate the Legion then the NCR which is complete BS which is why the argument scaled to where it did but ive proven my point. The Legion arent infiltration proof but they almost certainly are from the Enclave at least in integration. You read about Horrigan, then say that all Enclave soldiers wouldn't fit into the same concept as Lanius. And Horrigan was a monster before all the augments. People like him were not a complete anomaly in the Enclave. Now, I will say that infiltrating a nation like the NCR would be easier, but that does not make the Legion impervious to a potential Enclave remnant getting into the ranks. Especially after the fall of the Enclave. Also:Yea there is no way they could have infiltrated the Legion. NCR sure but it would be impossible for them to hide in the Legion. And:Not always, Espionage is the easiest and oldest trick in the book when it comes to gov'ts and organizations, the Enclave could easily have infiltrated the NCR or even the Legion, and started working their own mechanics. So yes, you did say it wasn't possible, and no, minngarm did not say it would be easier infiltrating the Legion over the NCR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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