Brainstorming getting a Flail to work

[fore]

Thanks, Mage. I'm afraid I have talked myself into something. There are 43 onehand animations, and all have to be modified to some extent. Oh my. :whistling:

fore, I know it's a tall order and I wouldn't blame you if you didn't want to do it. I tried an idle and a onehandedidle and they sort of worked, but I wouldn't trust my own animations enough at this point to release them and risk screwing up anyone's game.8)

I don't want to be disrespectful (towards girls reading this), but if I can animate H-cup breast, so why shouldn't I animate flails. :)

 

In most of those 43 animations (I disregard sneak and swim) the weapon simply hangs down or swings stiffly. That's easy. I didn't promise that I will be 100 % physically correct. And I only promised to make 4 attack animations. Some (e.g. castalt) cannot be done anyway. So I come up with 26 easy, and 4 attack. That' ok.

 

I wont say it's not possible but I have no idea how to do it and I've never seen it done. Sure you can put clothes or armour in those slots in the race menu in the cs, but doing it from the inventory menu or a script is another matter. Also, if you could use the mouth slot that would mean all the races would have to be changed to be compatible with the flail, and then there is the issue of using a rigged item in those slots screws up the character in chargen, leaves you looking at your tummy instead of your face.:P

Why not attaching the flail to some gauntlets, and use the hand slots, as it should be?

 

This is project that is kind of dear to my heart. You see my very first post on the Beth forums about 4 years ago was a request for someone to make GoGo Yubari's flail from KillBill. At the time I was a total noobie and some very polite and knowledgeable modders explained to me why it would not be possible. In spite of that I always hoped that maybe someday it could be possible.:yes:

Sometimes dreams come true. :D

[fore]

Just a little teaser: the OnehandFastForward animation for a flail in Blender. So if I had a working nif ... :)

 

I'm not a weapon and combat expert. So I dont know if the amount of swing is realistic for a heavy flail. I hope I'll find a video (ore someone can point me to one) where I can see this stuff in real action.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUMLThKEsuc

[RGMage2]

Why not attaching the flail to some gauntlets, and use the hand slots, as it should be?

Probably the right way to go. I think most people would be OK with that.:yes:

 

The video looks good,:) I will see what I can do to get you a flail to test.

[RGMage2]

@ fore I have a rigged flail for you https://rapidshare.com/files/2474045055/Steel_Flail.nif let me know if there are any problems with the download.

 

I set it so the handle fits into the hand so you shouldn't need to do anything with the hand bones. At the end of the handle the chain has a slight bend as it comes back to follow the whip bones. If you need it done any differently or you want a gauntlet attached to it let me know. It is a very easy thing for me to do.:)

[RitualBlack]

This would be a amazing resource to have on tesnexus. I also wanted flails in the game. I remember when I first started messing with files I tried to make a oblivion chain a weapon... needless to say it did not work out :sweat: . I also read that is was impossible to do, so I was really surprised when upon reading this. If you decide to upload this to nexus as a resource that would be great :happy: . Just think of the endless amount of flail models which could be made. RGMage2, believe it or not, I was thinking recently about how it would be possible for GoGo's flail (actually called a "Meteor hammer") to work in game. My concept was to have the rotating animation for static use like the J3X animated flails, and than the swing animation would be replaced with the "flail kick" like in the movie. I do not have the know how to do anything except for a static model + maybe the texture of my idea anyways, + actually allowing it to move naturally like your idea is much cooler. Anyways, great work and I really hope to see this as a modders resource one day :D .+ kudos to jamochawoke, RGMage2 and fore, you guys have created something great. Edited September 28, 2011 by tttttt

[fore]

@ fore I have a rigged flail for you https://rapidshare.com/files/2474045055/Steel_Flail.nif let me know if there are any problems with the download.

 

I set it so the handle fits into the hand so you shouldn't need to do anything with the hand bones. At the end of the handle the chain has a slight bend as it comes back to follow the whip bones. If you need it done any differently or you want a gauntlet attached to it let me know. It is a very easy thing for me to do.:)

Thanks, RGM, your flail works great. :thumbsup: I made it a hand slot armor, and my running animation did almost as expected (for a 1st try though). The grip is a little high, and hands are missing right now, of course.

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7796/flail02.jpg

 

I have 2 things I don't understand, and 1 big problem.

• When I equip an additional one hand weapon, I get "spikes to infinity", just if I don't have the right skeleton. But I have it of course, because the animation works when rename it to walkfastforward.kf and use it without a weapon drawn. But this problem should go anyway, if a invisible pseudo weapon is connected.
  
• The pattern of the animation looks somehow different to what I see in Blender. I can't really describe (because of the next problem). First I thought that it's caused by the way the handle is rigged (including whip01 and 02), but that can't be)
  
• But my big problem is the way the whip swings left/right during run (and all similar animations). The flail will follow, and that's not good. I need a way to figure out, how I can make whip01 go EXACTLY downwards. If I just approximate, the flail head will zig-zag, and that's not good, either. I know how to figure out global position, maybe there is something like "global rotation".
  

Anyway. What I want to say: as usual I have underestimated the task, and it will take more than anticipated. :P Back to work.

[RGMage2]

@fore To change the position of the grip try moving the whipRoot bone. On frame one pull it up and reposition it in the hand and then Loc it. Then rotate it in the hand for a good fit and LocRot. I exported the walkfastforward.kf with just this change and it worked nicely.

 

I’ll try a few things with the side to side motion, I’m sure we can figure it out.

 

@tttttt Resource yes, something like this has to be for everyone. The animations are the key, if fore can do them then we will have our flails, all kinds of them. With jamochawoke, fore, and anyone else who wants to jump in here I am sure we can do this.:yes:

 

GoGo might need some specialIdles, gives me another reason to watch the move again.:D

 

 

[fore]

@fore To change the position of the grip try moving the whipRoot bone. On frame one pull it up and reposition it in the hand and then Loc it. Then rotate it in the hand for a good fit and LocRot. I exported the walkfastforward.kf with just this change and it worked nicely.

I know how to do it ;) but I don't think that's the right way to do. If you add a gauntlet or a hand mesh then this has to match. So for the animations I need to wait how your next flail version comes across.

 

I’ll try a few things with the side to side motion, I’m sure we can figure it out.

I think I know now how to do that. Makes the non-combat animations the costly ones. But what the heck, I love this project now. :D

 

@tttttt Resource yes, something like this has to be for everyone. The animations are the key, if fore can do them then we will have our flails, all kinds of them.

Question: I'm neither weapon expert, nor native english speaker. Bur what we make, isn't that called a "Chain Mace", and not "Flail". :P I don't mind, because I like this weapon much more.

[RitualBlack]

fore, actually both chain mace and flail are acceptable terms. A chain mace specifically means a mace head on the chain, but a flail is a weapon with a blunt object on the end of the chain (including mace heads :happy: )

 

Either way, I cant wait to see this when its ready to be used as a modders resource. From the video and images it looks really impressive :D.

Edited September 29, 2011 by tttttt

[Striker879]

Just a suggestion/question that may simplify things (or maybe complicate them). If you were running with the chain mace pictured in fore's example wouldn't you grasp the chain close to the mace head while continuing to hold the handle, and then release the chain and mace head to swing free once you'd stopped running? To run with something like that free to swing around would be dangerous to yourself and would throw off your gait. Walking with the weapon at ready is completely understandable, however.

 

I agree, this could lead to some awesome mods!