Debates Section Pole...Kepp it or Lose it?

[lukertin]

You are also miscontruing me. I was querying the school of thought on here which questions the validity of real life experience. I did not say that theoretical discussion has no place in a debate, or is less important than RL experience. I actually said that there are those on here who dismiss any mention of RL experience as being inferior to theoretical discussion. I obtained a law degree by examination both in writing, viva voce and by completing a dissertation, all of which contained theoretical discussion. You see that is precisely what the problem is on here, as others have pointed out. People posting here often take the stance that two concepts are mutually exclusive, and that if, using this as an example, you believe that real life experience is important, it follows therefore that you think theoretical discussion is not.

In that case I apologize for causing confusion. (though I don't think I ever claimed you said that theoretical discussion has no place in a debate, or is less important than real life experience) To address your original point, though, I believe people raise objection to the use of anecdote in argument because it is the use of a particularized fact in support of a general conclusion; and when absent consideration of other sources of evidentiary support, it rankles people because (to borrow a principal from statistics) if the mean of a population is X there will always be positions outside of a standard deviation from X, and the use of anecdote is improper because we don't know if your anecdote is representative of the mean X, or if it is an outlier.

 

The use of personal anecdote is of course a powerful persuasive tool to support a general point of view in combination with other arguments, I don't think people honestly believe that the use of anecdote, by itself, is improper in a debate simply by the quality of it being an anecdote. It is the use of anecdote alone, absent other argument, which should not be allowed.

 

Now if I'm mischaracterizing what people have been doing on these forums (not out of the question, but people tend to act similarly across the board, so this is an assumption I make freely) then disregard everything I just said, I haven't read through enough threads to get an idea of how posters really respond to anecdotes and in what context they are used, but in my experience users on internet forums tend to just post a personal anecdote and let it stand for itself as proof or rebuttal of someone else's opinion. That sort of conduct is understandably obnoxious

 

That is not the case at all, and is emphatically not what I said. But here we are again, taking two and two and making five, and assuming that because I have said there is merit in one side that there is none in the other. We would be better served in these debates if we did not insist that people have to be at one extreme or the other.

I'll be more careful in the future, though I don't think I made judgment on you or your actual argument, just questioned your presumptions :psyduck:

Edited October 5, 2011 by lukertin

[Lisnpuppy]

As Myr said this IS supposed to be fun, first and foremost. I do not have any issue with someone questioning a post and asking someone NICELY to be more specific or to provide other EXAMPLES OF THEIR THOUGH. SOme of you people act like you are the sole caretakers of the intellectual property of this section.

 

LIGHTEN UP PEOPLE AND GO BACK AND READ MY POST!!!

 

This can be intellectually stimulating without being so formal. I personally am not going to spend hours looking up wikipedia articles to repost int his thread. IF you people don't like what I say then move past it.

 

When some of you are in an arguement with each other I can go back and provide examples of when you have ignored dozens of other post to focus on the ONE PERSON you have decided to take issue with.

 

I love that sooooo much. Its like you may as well have me on the ignore button for all the notice you take.

 

This is why I voted for the option of making this a debate/opinion thread. No one is ever going to get it to work like a true debate which would only be between to people or teams anyway. If you want to do that why not have threads to invite one person or we pick teams to represent so that it doesn't dissolve into chaos?

[grannywils]

Whoa! Do NOT mess with the lady from West Virginia :unsure:

[stars2heaven]

When some of you are in an arguement with each other I can go back and provide examples of when you have ignored dozens of other post to focus on the ONE PERSON you have decided to take issue with.

 

I love that sooooo much. Its like you may as well have me on the ignore button for all the notice you take.

 

 

I do this sometimes. Though I usually only do it because someone posts something off topic. For instance, in the thread about AI I payed absolutely no attention to the discussion about humans possibly having some Neanderthal heritage. Though I do have an opinion on the matter, I didn't see the relevance to the topic. Therefore I only responded to those who were talking about the AI stuff.

[Keanumoreira]

Well...I think that, for once, at least in the majority; that we are all finally coming together to meet a common consensus. Lisn, I want to thank you sincerely for posting this thread. I will never understand why it's with usually with you, but every time I read your enlightening posts, it just adds some sense of diplomacy (ever thought of being one? That is, if you weren't one already. ;) ), like...some kind of Debate Siren, lol. But a good Siren of course. :biggrin: I agree with your proposal, not because I want to use that button (and I won't if it is enacted), but because I just want this place to go back to what it was when I first arrived three years back. I was once an enthusiast in the Debates Forum (If Vagrant is still around, he'll tell you, lol. I'm more than certain he still remembers me and my Debate habits then), and in many respects, I still am. It's just been a little sour lately, and if it takes an "hey...ignore me" button to sort everyone out, then make one. Anything to bring back a stable forum, please.

 

 

As I mentioned before, people have the sole ability to make a change to their lives. It isn't some stone tablet held in a statue's hand from an unreachable position, or some type of paper nailed to a public wall for all to see. It's easy to make a change, but what makes it difficult is when it is easy to do nothing at all.

[Nintii]

Yeah well I'm not interested in a "bless me club" ... I both agree and disagree with many but I feel that it defeats the object of posting on this section if you are going to sit in a boat full of people who think exactly the same as you do.

Isn't that why you are here, to enjoy the opposition, the challenge and opportunity to perhaps learn something new ?

I sometimes search the web to get material to offer a better arguement and in so doing learn a lot ... don't you ?

 

I'm not here to win a popularity contest, I'm sure that I've made that abundantly clear by some of the things I've said or stances I've taken, but still I try to maintain an "open" attitude.

If you want to stick me on your "ignore" list then please go ahead, you know my name.

But I am not going to be manipulated under the guise of "keeping the debate section or losing it" when no such planned action has come from the powers that be, because that's exactly what this is.

 

I am in total opposition to this nonsense, to my friends I'd like to say, this does not mean that I'm compromising my beliefs etc., and to my opposition this does not mean that I'm in acceptance to your views.

No, this means that i'm going to roll with the punches and take the good with the bad ...

[draconix]

If that is your decision to ignore the opposition, then... so be it. It's unfortunate.

 

There were times when I considered ignoring other users, and I probably would have ignored Aurulius if I could have found the feature at the time, but I'm glad that I didn't. Not because since that time he has started agreeing with me on all of my positions, and not even because he makes sense to me all of the time, but because over time I've begun to be able to see him as a human being, rather than as some faceless "other" on the internet.

 

I'd also like to point out that you cannot defend against that which you cannot detect. If other people see you not respond to valid posts made by those you have chosen to ignore, your position will look suspect.

 

...But... Whatever makes you happy, whatever you want. I'll leave so you guys can get back to your high-fives and patting each other on the backs. I'll see you guys around, whether you see me or not.

 

Edit: I guess in order to block Aureilius, I'd have to learn to spell his name too. :facepalm:

Edited October 5, 2011 by draconix

[grannywils]

@Nintii, I consider you my friend, but I gotta tell you I think you are missing the point of this thread entirely

 

First of all, the OP, LisnPuppy, never said anything about using the "ignore" button. If I am not mistaken, I believe I was the first one who made any reference to it. Secondly, I never said anything about using it in order to ignore those with whom I disagree. As you well know, you and I hardly ever agree, at least politically. That has never stopped us from having discourse on these forums. The same goes for me and many others from the right. If you have read what some of us have said, you will see that our problem has to do with making an attempt to have a reasonable debate on a specific subject and finding ourselves in the midst of a (pardon the expression) "pissing contest" between one or two or maybe even three posters who no longer care about the topic but just want to hear their own voices and prove themselves right.

 

Debates are by their own definition comprised of "disagreement" or at least differing viewpoints. No one here is suggesting we all want to sit around and pat one another on the back and tell each other how bright and "right" we all are. I don't even believe for one moment that you thought that. What we would like to do is be able to listen to differing viewpoints and cogent arguments which are directed at the subject at hand and not have to wade through a mire of verbiage unrelated to anything but someone's need to make noise.

 

If you see it differently, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I respect it and will back off quietly. But I just wanted you to understand at least where I stand.

 

 

[marharth]

The problem with that is it is your opinion to say that certain people "always want to be right" or take part in a "pissing contest."

 

You are still ignoring a opinion, a lot of people try to justify it by saying others are breaking the rules by posting things.

Edited October 5, 2011 by marharth

[Nintii]

Ok alright, after some deliberation I take back the "bless me club" that was unfair and a low blow to those I care about ... sorry.

But I stick to the rest of my placard waving.

Edited October 5, 2011 by Nintii