I could truly use some support...Please

[TroloWiseEared]

''Is it not fitting how, in Skyrim, we find ourselves in a land of turmoil and an age of uncertainty? With dissident groups growing, and the Empire's power dwindling? It is truly the birth of a new era.

 

It can be said that this setting is analogous to the situation here in reality, for we are experiencing, or about to experience, the very development of the meaning of the Elder Scrolls series. It is both an exciting and troubling time, as this series which some of us have cherished for so long is now teetering on the precipice. It is the nature of this precipice that I want to examine, which I shall get to in a moment.

 

As I'm sure many of you know, there is a large rift in the Elder Scrolls fanbase. I think you all know what the prime divider of this rift is and which two groups I am referring to. Those are: pre-Oblivion fans and post-Oblivion fans (pre-O and post-O). It seems to me that, at times, these two groups cannot understand one another at all. This makes sense, since Morrowind and Oblivion are two radically different games. But the problem stems from the fact that these two games are in fact two radically different games which are part of the same series. Yes, I know each Elder Scrolls game is supposed to be “their own unique, individual game” but one cannot ignore how related and interdependent they are when it comes to defining the series and lore as a whole. And yes, I know that it is not a “one or the other” thing, and there are many who love both games equally for what they are. But that still does not reconcile many of the misunderstandings of both groups. Of course, much of the problems come from the simple fact that each group has their own definition of what “Elder Scrolls” means. Morrowind fans remember being lost in a whimsical, immersive, hostile world of alien landscapes and intrigue, while Oblivion fans recall exploring a more familiar, friendly world of lushness and traditional fantasy. But how come so many per-O fans feel no magic, or even let down by Oblivion? Well... there are many reasons that I won't list here (trust me, I could if I wanted to take up the whole page). They are not important to bicker over. Suffice it to say that, while each game made many valuable contributions to the series, overall Morrowind had many things that Oblivion didn't have, but Oblivion only had a few things Morrowind didn't have. It was clear that, with Oblivion, the series was bound to be taking a different direction in general. These are the main reasons why I think many pre-O fans felt the sequel to their beloved series to be somewhat lacking. Some post-O fans simply cannot understand this I think – and that's just because they had a completely different introduction to TES, which is fine. (Side note: it frustrates many pre-O fans when post-O fans play the “all you ever wanted was a Morrowind 2” card. This is simply not true, and plus what the hell does it even mean? The pre-O fans indiscriminately looked forward to Oblivion with maddening anticipation despite the obvious impending departure, only to have many of them let down afterwards due to a culmination of other factors which will not be focused on here. Anyway, I know most post-O fans are not like this) Also, it is necessary that I (reluctantly) mention how part of the new direction set with Oblivion was the intention for TES to expand into the console market, since it is commonly known that console focused players and PC focused players often share very different views regarding video games in general, which can at times make their mindsets seem worlds apart. I am aware that Morrowind was released on the Xbox, but that was not it's primary target market. That is all I will say about that.

 

But whatever one thinks about Oblivion as part of the TES series, one cannot deny that it was a commercial success. It expanded the fanbase radically, and received much more attention than Morrowind ever did. It certainly will be the same with Skyrim over its predecessor as well. But, at what cost? To the newly obtained fans, nothing, since they had nothing to begin with ( I do not mean that in a negative way). Yet I think there are definitely some pre-O fans who are starting to feel alienated as a result of this new direction of “streamlining” and “accessibility”. And as we get to the root of why this direction over another, it should be no surprise.

 

We see this reoccurring phenomenon time and time again with commercial successes. They start out small with a small dedicated niche fanbase, and as they taste more and more success it naturally channels them to the path which will attain even more success, perhaps leaving the old niche fans feeling forgotten or even betrayed in the process, since these dedicated few have such different impressions of the “artist”than the masses. This often happens with popular bands and the like. I don't want to apply the harsh “Sell-out” term to BSG (yet), for this is the precipice I meant in the beginning. Even if they're not there yet, they are getting dangerously close. There are some who ponder the claim of how BSG is putting the same land area, less factions, less hand-made quests, and less overall features in a game with more budget, more technology, and more staff. It seems there are many who accept the haphazard explanations of “folding superfluous features into others” by Todd “The Liar” Howard whose promotion of the game often stretches the truth at the best of times. Perhaps they've forgotten the promises made during the promotion of Oblivion, or maybe even never followed it in the first place? But these are all pessimistic speculations, and are hopefully proven otherwise. Still, the new direction cannot be denied, and causes worry in many.

 

As for myself I am cautiously optimistic for Skyrim and the future of Elder Scrolls. Despite the 3-steps-forward-2-steps-back feeling I get sometimes, there does seem to be at least a few genuine solid improvements over the last game, even if they are a bit one sided (by that I mean more action/gameplay focused improvements rather than story/plot/setting). As for the new direction set by BSG, can we really blame them? It is clear they want to make the game as popular and make as much money as possible, but perhaps that is just how the industry works. And this makes sense, since it is how basic human nature works. It is our greed that drives us, and yet will also be our downfall. Can we really expect the hard working people at BSG to forsake all concerns and financial comforts to have instead complete creative freedom? Can they carry the burden of attempting to make a true timeless piece of art, rather than a good entertainment product? Sadly, the answer is no. I used to dream of Video Games obtaining literature status, with great games like Morrowind, Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate, Myst, and the early Fallouts being put on library shelves next to the great classic novels of our time. But no longer, or at least not any time soon. Video games are now entertainment products over artworks, being mass-marketed and mass-manufactured. Less and less often are they games being made by gamers for gamers, but instead products being made by corporations for mass consumption. Whether Skyrim will follow suite and fall one way or another or stay on the edge, we shall soon see in the coming weeks. ''

 

This is a discussion which I read earlier today. ever since i have been in a slight downhill depression. not just because of the game, but because of the real world applications and the sadness of human greed. I do not know, for i have not played morrowind, so would anyone be kind enough to offer there opinion on the matter. as well as knowledge. Thank you, truly.

[chikawowwow]

Wow............ That post was looooong!

Give us a few hours to read and reply lol.

[Odai]

Morrowind was a better GAME to play

Oblivion was a better game to PLAY

 

 

Because of the lack in voice and visuals in Morrowind the developers had to spend more time with words and encounters.

 

Because of tech improvements Oblivion was able to have a visual depth to the game and speak more to an emotional level as opposed to a logical one.

 

Skyrim, at least from what we know, seems to appeal to both sides of the spectrum. Bringing back the puzzles and mysteries and histories of TESIII and prior, while making it visually and emotionally stimulating as Oblivion was.

 

I have full faith that Bethesda wont sell out on us. In fact, they are returning many things that the original fanbase wanted.

 

Keep in mind that the Xbox 360 was new and top of the line tech in its time. MS didnt reveal ANYTHING about it. So the devs werent sure what they should/ could do about it. Now that they have near mastered the tech, the game will have elements of FO3, Oblivion, and Morrowind if not even earlier games from the series.

[MizerD]

there is no way in hell im reading this! far too much like work! :armscrossed:

[jedimembrain]

that was about two and a half pages of a book .. and I'm about to go to silverwood for some halloween events with the family so there is no way I'm reading this o__o .. but judging by the replays it sounds like morrowind vs oblivion again .. um... morrowind has more detail in the world but with no voices and horrible combat .. oblivion was pretty empty and not as flushed out as morrowind .. but had fully voiced NPC which made the world feel more alive in a lot of ways as well as a better combat system .. Skyrim seems to hit all of these marks I'm pleased to say ^_^

[chikawowwow]

I think that Skyrim may let some people down in some matters, and impress people in others. The main thing to remember is that- to date- no other RPG compares to the scope and freedom of TES and Fallout. You can pay £30 for a TES game which can give you 100s of hours gameplay, and buy a highly commercialised game for the same price which takes only 11hours to finish (Mafia II so I'm told). So although there may be aspects that are dissapointing, you are getting much more than you would otherwise.

For PC also remember if a dissagreement is shared by many people there will be a mod to change that aspect.

Another thing to consider is that although TES has changed each game either better/worse, you are not just buying the game because of the label--each time is a new experience. Call of Duty is a good example of how the brand name can be re-used over and over for sales and leave the buyer with not much more than just updated graphics and models.

[Stormcrown]

People will be let down if they are looking to be let down.

 

It's honestly like 70% about your mindset when you go into the game.

[Schattenu]

Guys, this only took me like five minutes to read, if that, it's not like War and Peace. No need to be put off by it.

 

Anyway, I think this is reading a little too far into things. Yeah, Bethesda might be appealing to a wider audience, because nobody wants their company to lose money and potentially go out of business. It's kind of a necessary evil due to the economy issues nowadays. Still, I've retained a lot of respect for Bethesda, because while they are branching out to a wider audience, they are by no means "selling out." I've noticed over the past couple months that they seem to be still listening very closely to its fans.

 

I'm of the pre-Oblivion group. I spent a ridiculous amount of time in Morrowind back in the day, and I spent just as much if not more time in Oblivion. I still missed a lot of Morrowind's general feel, but Oblivion kept me going because I hated Morrowind's combat (just not a fan of the dice-rolling type of stuff, that's why I can't play things like Final Fantasy). Oblivion's wasn't great, but I still found it better than Morrowind's, and considering how much other stuff was packed into the game, I could let it slide.

 

Regardless, I don't think the gap between Oblivion and Morrowind players is quite as big as your article suggests, and Skyrim does seem to be promising a lot for both sides. I have a lot of faith in Bethesda, because like I said, while they are looking for money (it's a business, can't blame them), they're not ignoring its fans to make another Call of Duty-esque brainless game. They wouldn't have kept the Dark Brotherhood's return and reveal such a big secret if they didn't know that it had one of the most popular questlines in Oblivion, for example. And they've openly stated how much they learned from Shivering Isles and how much people liked it.

 

I don't think we have all that much to worry about with Skyrim, I remain optimistic that it'll be awesome.

[Lord J]

I enjoyed the article.

 

I'm personally a bit of an anomaly. I was first introduced to TES with Oblivion but have since enjoyed TES Lore so much that I've gone back and played Morrowind, Arena and Daggerfall. While I enjoyed Morrowind for its story, Oblivion was certainly more "fun" to play. The most noticeable between Daggerfall and Skyrim is the constant reduction of skills. Daggerfall has a tone of skills; most of which are pretty useless. Even Morrowind was a bit of an overkill with medium armours and all things in between. Skyrim looks to really trim the skills down to their core state which I think is definitely a plus particularly for anyone new to the series. Even going back to Daggerfall found me consulting online guides to work out WTF each skill did and which ones to choose. I mean DF included different languages! (Nymph, Centaur, Daedric, Giant etc.)

 

My gripe with Oblivion was the somewhat stupid and contrived story.

 

Pretty much in RPG games I look for story and immersion over graphics so Skyrim looks promising considering its the culmination of all the events from TES 1 to 4.

[Odai]

I enjoyed the article.

 

I'm personally a bit of an anomaly. I was first introduced to TES with Oblivion but have since enjoyed TES Lore so much that I've gone back and played Morrowind, Arena and Daggerfall. While I enjoyed Morrowind for its story, Oblivion was certainly more "fun" to play. The most noticeable between Daggerfall and Skyrim is the constant reduction of skills. Daggerfall has a tone of skills; most of which are pretty useless. Even Morrowind was a bit of an overkill with medium armours and all things in between. Skyrim looks to really trim the skills down to their core state which I think is definitely a plus particularly for anyone new to the series. Even going back to Daggerfall found me consulting online guides to work out WTF each skill did and which ones to choose. I mean DF included different languages! (Nymph, Centaur, Daedric, Giant etc.)

 

My gripe with Oblivion was the somewhat stupid and contrived story.

 

Pretty much in RPG games I look for story and immersion over graphics so Skyrim looks promising considering its the culmination of all the events from TES 1 to 4.

 

 

Like I said...

Morrowind was a better GAME to play (meaning the detail, the story, the thought... its an amazing game)

Oblivion was a better game to PLAY (meaning it looked better, was less clunky, the combat was better, the systems and everything were more fun)

 

As to the skills...

Skyrim only has fewer skills as a technicality. Realistically (as I mentioned in the attributes topic) Skyrim has MORE skill dedication and specificity than Morrowind, and its uncertain so far, but potentially more than daggerfall. The keys are in the trees. Block and 1H are just folders that hold the real skills associated with them.