3 attributes...

[tesshouldberpg]

I agree with those saying that the Fallout Attribute system was much improved over Oblivion. And unlike Oblivion, at character creation, you had the option to lower your Attributes in order to bump others up higher, which was totally cool. And for those who really lament the loss of the Attribute system I can see where you're coming from. If there was any feature in a game series that I really liked and it was done away with I would be disappointed to see it go too.

I appreciate you looking to see the other side of the story. There are some people that simply cannot get their heads past their own point of view.

 

For me, in the case of Attributes, I don't have the feeling that they were central to my gaming experience. I like the newer, streamlined approach. I find it to be aesthetically appealing in the sense of stripping things down to their base essence and removing clutter. It's like E=mc2. A simple, elegant formula that works is cleaner and stronger because of it's simplicity. Einstein didn't dumb-down physics because he was able to express a lot of complicated phenomena down to a few, iconic formulas.

This is mainly just me teasing but... you missed the delta. You see, energy released = the change (delta) of mass (m) x the speed of light ( C )^2. There has never been a straight mass to energy conversion; there is always waste matter. And it wasn't that Einstein was trying to make it simple, it was just a coincidence that it happened to be simple. If you can call the speed of light simple, or even measurable. I suppose it's as simple as pi. :biggrin:

Edited October 19, 2011 by tesshouldberpg

[Morilibus]

I did like the fallout SPECIAL system. However;

 

The one downfall was you had to have a good idea of what was in the game and what certain perk or item requirements were before you started the game to ensure you built character so you could do and use what you wanted to.

 

At least in skyrim you can have a good idea on how you want to play the game, but if you come across something you are unable to do, or a weapon you are unable to use effectively, all you need to do is work on that skill.

 

Where there were certain things in fallout 3/nv that had a set Strength requirement. If you didn't anticipate need say a 10 Strength before you started the game, you were never going to be able to use or do that part of the game.

 

At least in Oblivion you could raise those attributes, so you still had a chance to modify your character in game to adjust to what you would like to do with them.

 

I'm not sure how I will like the new system, I wonder what happened to things like "chance to dodge" "or "running speed". Do all races run at the same speed now? or is it a hidden attribute associated with STAMINA? I'd like to build a low health assassin, who can't take many hits but shouldn't have to as he would have a very high Agility and avoid most attacks. How do I reflect that in Skyrim?

Edited November 8, 2011 by Morilibus

[krewjew90]

I agree with those saying that the Fallout Attribute system was much improved over Oblivion. And unlike Oblivion, at character creation, you had the option to lower your Attributes in order to bump others up higher, which was totally cool. And for those who really lament the loss of the Attribute system I can see where you're coming from. If there was any feature in a game series that I really liked and it was done away with I would be disappointed to see it go too.

I appreciate you looking to see the other side of the story. There are some people that simply cannot get their heads past their own point of view.

 

For me, in the case of Attributes, I don't have the feeling that they were central to my gaming experience. I like the newer, streamlined approach. I find it to be aesthetically appealing in the sense of stripping things down to their base essence and removing clutter. It's like E=mc2. A simple, elegant formula that works is cleaner and stronger because of it's simplicity. Einstein didn't dumb-down physics because he was able to express a lot of complicated phenomena down to a few, iconic formulas.

This is mainly just me teasing but... you missed the delta. You see, energy released = the change (delta) of mass (m) x the speed of light ( C )^2. There has never been a straight mass to energy conversion; there is always waste matter. And it wasn't that Einstein was trying to make it simple, it was just a coincidence that it happened to be simple. If you can call the speed of light simple, or even measurable. I suppose it's as simple as pi. :biggrin:

Forgive me if I'm wrong now but I thought that there was a law that stated that mass is neither created nor destroyed so a theoretical equation like e=mc2 would measure the amount of energy released from an entire mass in the conversion to energy. Then you could take out slight impurities in the conversion with *x% for whatever mass may not have been converted. I don't think the delta is necessary. Atleast that's what my chem professors have always implied.

 

In other words to stay relevant... Skyrim Rules!

[macole]

Looking at the health/endurance statement and it just doesn't seem right to me. To me, endurance and stamina are basically two terms meaning the same thing, staying power or how long one can perform a task before weakening. Whereas health relates directly to how much damage you can take before you die. Simply put my prefered attribute list would look as follows.

 

+ Strength

+ Dexterity

Health

Magicka (willpower)

Stamina/endurance

 

Never played Darklands but the skill system sounds incredible and very realistic.

[stormguy85]

The Darklands system was very good for the type of game it was. You had to make "dice rolls" on events that happen in the game: such as trying to scale a wall, or perform a cleansing ritual. So, it needed talents like that to decide what multiplier you get when it does the dice role. Skyrim has no dice, so there is no reason for a system like that.

 

Basically, you can take any concept and stretch it across a line. At one end of the line you have the start, and at the other you have the end result. There can be many things that go along in the middle of that line, but the start and finish are clearly defined.

 

For example, lets talk about Damage. Damage starts at the weapon, and ends with a number of damage performed. Lets say your weapon is a short sword (base damage 10), and the actual damage you cause to your enemy is 25.

 

Lets create some theoretical formulas to figure out how this damage is achieved... In Oblivion your damage was modified by weapon skill (capped at 100), strength (capped at 100), luck (capped at 100). Then it is reduced based upon opponent armor level (capped at 95).

 

In Skyrim you have your weapon skill, perk decisions (many attacks can be affected by upwards of 10+ perks), modified damage from equipment, possible critical modifiers. Then the damage is mitigated by your opponent's armor: which is in turn reduced by your armor penetration.

 

These are assuming just a standard melee swing. Skyrim has numerous additional power attack options that go beyond what Oblivion had available.

 

Just the fact that you won't have stats that are capped, you have far more potential to raise your damage against an opponent in Skyrim then you did in Oblivion. You can make far more unique (non-integer) modifications to your damage.

 

The ability to customize your damage output is possibly ten fold in Skyrim. I still don't see what all the fuss is about. Stop being so narrow minded.

Edited November 8, 2011 by stormguy85

[xaliqen]

I'd also like to voice my concern about the removal of the previous attribute system as well as birthsigns and, to a lesser extent, character classes. These were three of the primary elements that made your character unique to your own idea of who that character is and how they act and allowed you to actually 'role-play' in the RPG.

 

I don't know how it's going to work with those removed, and am worried player characters might have less distinguishing characteristics. I guess we'll all see how well it works in a couple days. :wink:

Edited November 8, 2011 by xaliqen

[stars2heaven]

First let me say that I don't care which system is used. I only care about which one is better. ATM, since I haven't played Skyrim, I don't know which one I like more. Now on to my post

 

I disagree with the posters here who think that damage needs to be related to phsyical attributes like strength. With the possible exception of very heavy blunt weapons, strength has little to do with the damage that a weapon can do to another persons body. With a blade, it takes very little pressure to pierce the skin, and the momentum of a blunt object is more than enough to compensate for any lack of strength that the person wielding it may have. Once again, with most blunt weapons it takes little effort to inflict real damage to a person.

 

That said, I think that skill is a much better indicator of what kind of damage a person can do with a weapon. It represents how they handle it and that they know how to inflict the most damage possible with it. A very strong person who has no training in the use of a rapier will not defeat a much weaker person who is an expert. It will be no contest at all for the weaker individual. The same is generally true for just about any weapon.

 

Therefore, I don't think that these attributes are essential in Skyrim for accurately defining how much damage a person can do. An orc who sucks at swordsmanship should never be able to beat a Bosmer who is an expert.

Edited November 8, 2011 by stars2heaven

[vykon]

I haven't played Skyrim yet so is hard to say witch system is better.Playing with only 3 attributes will be more of a challange :whistling:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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