Tips for Large World Space creation and workflow

[Xenogeist]

I've begun working on a mod that recreates the Kansas City area post apocalypse. I've finished turning an old elevation map I found of the area into a height map with photoshop that after many trials and errors I managed to implement into a suitable terrain in the creation kit. My worldspace goes from -40,-40 to 40, 40 so it has 6561 total cells and the playable space is from cell -34, -35 to 25, 27 with a total of 3780 playable cells.

 

I just thought I'd ask before I waded any further into this process if any veteran modders have any tips or tricks to speed up their workflow process or are aware of any hurdles I might be facing down the road.

 

 

Some big things I am aware of:

 

Heightmap: I thought I would share a bit on this stage for others who might find this because it gave me some trouble. After a lot of head scratching I was able to import my heightmap to create a world space. The major hangups I had for this process were saving my image file in the proper dds format for which I used https://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-texture-tools-adobe-photoshop and realizing that when setting the world boundary in the heightmap import window you need to have it start in the southwest corner (like -32, -32) and go to the northeast corner (example 32, 32). I was trying to get it to go from the northwest to southeast for the longest time and couldn't grasp why this was an invalid cell range. I didn't find this written anywhere else and it seemed counter intuitive so I thought I'd share it here.

 

The creation kit currently has a bug where you cannot sprint in a custom worldspace unless you generate precombined geometry and then precombined visibility and this must be done before adding any objects to the worldspace for some reason:

https://community.bethesda.net/thread/8561

I've tried pecombining geometry and visual data (is there an option to precombine visual data for an entire worldspace? All I could find was the option to precombine for loaded cells) and the sprint bug still persists so this is for bethesda to fix. I've learned a little about the importance of precombining thanks to this bug: http://www.creationkit.com/fallout4/index.php?title=Precombined_References

 

I'm not sure what this is, if they are referring to precomputing occlusion in the World LOD tab then the creation kit estimates it will take me 3.8 days which isn't something I'm in a hurry to do if it isn't necessary. I'm also not sure what this exactly does other than remove the bug that prevents characters from sprinting. If anyone has any advice regarding this I'm all ears.

 

I can create OPALs (object pallets) to speed up the landscaping process which I learned in this topic:

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/4162450-ck-tips-for-landscaping-faster/?hl=%2Btips&do=findComment&comment=38112455

 

I will need to generate LOD for my world but it sounds like I should wait until I have all objects and landscaping placed and the worldspace mostly finished first:

 

I can use regions to generate clutter like trees, rocks and terrain textures in my world space. I'm going to try to learn this next and I'm counting on it to greatly reduce my workload. If anyone has any tips for this process or give me an example of some of the settings they used that gave them good results I would find it very helpful.

 

 

 

I will need to create a usable pipboy map image for my world. I'm having a lot of trouble with this. Some people don't seem to have any problems with this process but myself and others over at the bethesda.net forums have been having a hell of a time getting it to work.

 

I wonder if someone who has been successful with creating a pipboy map for a worldspace could share a little of their knowledge. What dds file type did you use and what settings? (image type, mip map, etc). Did you use the Nvidia or Intel photoshop plugin to save it? What are your world dimensions? I've been scratching my head over what I'm doing wrong and can't figure it out.

 

I imported my heightmap using the creation kit. Because the cell dimensions are always odd ( 32 pixels per cell +1) I can't make a dds file of the same dimensions as my map if I use one the DXT1-5 dds file types because they must be divisible by 4. But I haven't even had luck replacing the default commonwealth map with one of the DXT dds files though so I'm not sure that is the problem. I've been able to get a few of the dds file types that don't have dimension restrictions to appear in the creation kit, just not in game.

 

 

So, any words of advice for someone whose ambitions are greater than their abilities?

Edited June 7, 2016 by Xenogeist

[TeamBacon]

I don't make large areas, so I can't really help you there.

 

But if you want any Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel assets, I am more than happy to share with you once I am done.

[Xenogeist]

Thank you, I might take you up on that. I haven't fleshed out a story yet but I plan on the Brotherhood of Steel having at least a small presence in the area. I haven't played Fallout Tactics where a lot of the lore for that area comes from but from reading the wiki I've learned a little bit. The Midwest brotherhood of Steel seems to have been the major power in the area after defeating (and maybe assimilating?) an army of super mutants and then gaining control of some advanced super computer army. I'm not sure how much of that is canon but I'll try to work with the lore whenever possible. Fallout Tactics ends in 2198 AD and my mod will be set in the same time frame as Fallout 4, 2287 AD, so that gives me 89 years between the two games for me to rewrite the balance of power in the area.

 

Reading the wiki also gave me ideas for some other factions in the area: Reaver remnants and the Ghouls of Gravestone.

 

Here is the old elevation map that I'm using as inspiration for my world space.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/topo/kansas/txu-pclmaps-topo-ks-kansas_city-1887.jpg

This area will allow me to include notable locations such as:

Leavenworth Prison

Fort Leavenworth

Multiple industrial cave systems which were used as fallout shelters that were owned and operated by a competing company of Vault-Tec

Gravestone, ghoul town which I'll probably put a little east of the ruins of downtown KC

World War 1 memorial (maybe, depends how difficult it will be to replicate the architecture)

Crossroads, a town south of the ruins of downtown KC

Stockyards and Union Station

KCI airport

Qualtiy Hill, settlement on the west edge of downtown KC

 

The northeast and southwest areas will be small settlements, raider camps and wilderness. Brotherhood of Steel could have a presence in the northeast and another faction, maybe Legion remnants, Reavers or a completely new faction could have a presence in the southwest area.

 

I'm open to ideas for quests and other story elements by the way. I have a rough idea of where I'm going with this but I'm still a loooong way from implementing anything. :)

[TeamBacon]

I've played Fallout Tactics again just recently and have been doing a lot of research with my own mod and how to fit it into the world of Fallout 4.

 

When the time comes, I can help you out with that information and how you can fit it into whatever story you want to tell.

 

 

 

I'm also making some Reaver assets. According to my story, the Reavers eventually set up their capital in Wichita, Kansas. They have other cities sprinkled across Kansas, Oklahoma, and Missouri.

 

The super mutants in Tactics are from 'The Master's Army' from Fallout 1. They moved out east because the Brotherhood was committing genocide on them back in California. Their main goal is to find the cure for their sterility, so they join the Midwestern faction of the Brotherhood if you promise to let them continue their research.

 

In my mod's backstory, the super mutants begin breaking the truce by attacking human villages around Missouri, primarily the remains of Branson. This forces the Brotherhood to stop working on the sterility cure at their research lab in St. Louis where many of my characters come from. The super mutants end up destroying St. Louis and long story short, the Brotherhood stationed there ends up at Vault 54 in Goddard, Kansas.

 

I haven't mentioned Kansas City at all in my story yet.

[Xenogeist]

I like your story so far and I'd be interested in playing it. I think the plains commonwealth area as it was known pre-war is a great setting for a fallout game and I'd be glad to see it come alive.

 

The story I have isn't much and shouldn't conflict with anything I'm hearing. My antagonist is new and doesn't belong to any pre-existing factions. I wanted an antagonist like the Master in the original Fallout and that is who I based him on.

 

My backstory so far:

An army general is abducted by aliens and is experimented on and tortured.
They return him to earth and he is a changed man.
He has visions of the world being destroyed in nuclear fire.
He forms a hatred for aliens.
He tries to get the army to help deal with this malevolent alien threat but they do not believe him.

Vault Tec does.

Vault Tec has a captured alien and they wish to conduct a vault experiment with the general as the overseer.

The experiment is that the alien is exposed to a strain of FEV that is designed to combine
human and alien DNA to create a hybrid. The results are to be monitored and if hybridization is
successful the alien will be mentally broken and conditioned to be loyal to Vault Tec
by mental manipulation experts in the vault.

The bombs fall and the experiment is conducted and hybridization is successful.

The Hybrid is conditioned to think it is human and his brain is wiped of all memories that he ever was an alien.

The general, in his hatred, mistreats the hybrid.

The general, after a long time in the vault with no word from the outside world, grows sick of the experiment and
shows the hybrid the FEV that changed him from an alien and explains what they did to him.

The general, wearing power armor, attempts to kill the hybrid but the hybrid resists and shoves the general
into the vat of FEV.

The Hybrid escapes the vault.

The general, after a long time in the vat emerges a hybrid himself.

The General leaves the vault and begins hunting for the hybrid.

The Hybrid, seeking to understand himself attempts to contact the aliens but they are hostile to him.

Finding acceptance neither in humankind nor alienkind the Hybrid returns to the vault and begins making more Hybrids,
starting with the mental manipulation experts that were staffed there.

The General returns to the vault and is captured by the Hybrid's growing army of super mutant hybrids. He is imprisoned.

The Hybrid begins to run out of the modified FEV and his army stops growing.

They Hybrid begins researching how to recreate the modified FEV to create more hybrids with his end goal being to convert
all humans (and aliens if he can find them) into hybrid super mutants.

His research continues...

[Xenogeist]

Updated original post with some info on heightmap importing and asking for advice on importing a pipboy map.

[deathleopards]

Second that to what Xenogeist said and add a detailed tut on worldspace creation with adding a map that's viewable on the Pip-Boy. Map image format isn't the problem, just the custom worldspace data is being ignored and the Commonwealth data is shown instead. Thanks in advance!

[Deleted4036430User]

Bumping this thread, got the same problem with the new Pip-Boy map not coming up despite seeming fine in the Creation Kit.

[aggressiveTurtle]

I've begun working on a mod that recreates the Kansas City area post apocalypse. I've finished turning an old elevation map I found of the area into a height map with photoshop that after many trials and errors I managed to implement into a suitable terrain in the creation kit. My worldspace goes from -40,-40 to 40, 40 so it has 6561 total cells and the playable space is from cell -34, -35 to 25, 27 with a total of 3780 playable cells.

 

 

Just wanted to say thanks to the OP, I am working on a similar type of mod using a heightmap of my local area, and I'm going to use some of your advice ASAP to see if I can finally get it working. Good luck with your mod!