A real world perspective on "stolen mods"

[marcmorr6]

Hi everyone,

 

I have been reading a lot of threads, written by aggrieved parties who are upset that their "IP" is being stolen and reposted. I am going to make myself very unpopular by trying to educate you on the realities of being a creator who bases their work on someone else's platform. I have personal, real life, business experience in dealing with this type of issue so I will tell you a bit about me first.

 

My name is Marcus Morris. I am autistic. I created a method of using MMO's (Second Life) to teach real world social and vocational skills. I did this because I was tired of seeing so many people who needed help, only receiving help if they could pay for it or had really good insurance. You can look up my real world experience by googling Marcus Morris Autism Billings. I tried to put a link to the newspaper stories but links don't work for me here for some reason.

 

I created a real world nonprofit to use my work to help people. There was an attempt by my board of directors to push me out and keep my work for themselves in the name of the company I created. I had to hire lawyers in order to protect myself and soon came to the realization that there was NO protecting yourself if you play by the existing rules of business and legal precedent.

 

What you can actually protect:

 

1. I could protect any files and papers that I had personally typed or written that were not using any code or writing that belonged to any other party.

2. I could protect any artwork that I had personally created using no other pre existing works.

 

What you can not protect:

 

1. Concept's are not viable for protection. Idea's are not protected.

2. I could not protect the name of my work, as I had not set up copy write before the troubles started.

3. I received an internal memo from a friend who remained on the board after I was pushed out that stated " Look, let's just use his work anyway and by the time we launch it will be too late for him to say anything"

 

I know a lot of mod creators are from many different countries with many different laws when it comes to IP rights, Copy writes, Artist protections (Lets face it, you are all artists whether you claim to be or not.) For the purpose of this issue, that doesn't matter. Ultimately Bethesda owns the code that you are modding with their permission. That means that any legal protections that exist are solely in favor of Bethesda. The exception to this would be any coding and artwork that you create from scratch and add into the mod... that part you could possibly have copy write protections on.

 

Second Life handles IP a little differently than any other MMO that I am familiar with. They built their business model by charging for virtual land that you build on... the creators of new world items, scripts, etc are then protected because the world code itself is set up in such a way that Linden Labs owns the tools that you use but you retain ownership of the creations you build with those tools.

 

I hope this helps all of you understand where you actually stand when it comes to IP ownership and copy write protections. Realize that what Bethesda has been doing to protect original content and original creators while seeming only a half effort is actually far more effort than legally required of them. They are spending real world man hours to do what they are already doing to protect your work from scavvers (fallout humor) and they are making NO money from this process. That means that every single man hour used to protect work that you create... that generates no revenue for them is a LOSS in their profit and losses statement.

 

Like any artist you want to protect yourself and your creations. Like any artist, sadly the legal world doesn't do as much as it should to protect you.

 

You have a choice to make,

 

1. Abandon doing something that you love because the world isn't fair and you can't abide the disrespect you are receiving online.

 

2. Find creative ways to keep doing what you love and protect yourself at the same time by making sure credit is given where it is due

a. Custom loading screens with every mod you create that thanks the user, directs them to your nexus or personal website, directs them to your personal social media site.

b. Use the same technique that the "Eyebot" mod does that adds a one time screen on login that gives information about the mod, the creator, etc

c. Use existing code to make your mod incompatible with xbox or ps4.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[iXenite]

I'd be curious to know how similar the EULA is for Second Life and Fallout 4. I can only assume that they are very different in terms of the legal ownership of content considering that Second Life was as much a business opportunity as it was a game.

 

I'm not a lawyer (nor am I the best at this sort of thing), but from what I have seen others indicate by their reading of the EULA for Fallout 4 (most importantly the opinions of some staff members) the mods do in fact belong to the mod creators, pending they are not selling them for money. I believe Dark0ne mentioned this fact in his public statement on the Bethesda.net website. Could be wrong about that last part.

[RS13]

You seem to think that either (1) Bethesda really owns the copyright on mods or (2) Mods can't be copywritten because they're concepts. (2) is clearly false, mods are files. And the "mod thieves" are not stealing the idea for a mod and then recreating it--they're taking the actual files and posting them for download without the creator's permission.

 

So, I think you probably mean (1). Which brings me to:

For clarity, ZeniMax Owned UGC does not include (i) any Content that You create or develop if such Content or if the creation or development of such Content would constitute a breach of this Agreement or any Supplementary Terms or would violate any law, (ii) any Content that You create or develop without the use of Content provided or made available by ZeniMax or (iii) ANY GAME MODS (as defined below).

--Zenimax terms of service Section 2, subsection B, paragraph 5. https://bethesda.net/#en/termsofservice.

[marcmorr6]

I'd be curious to know how similar the EULA is for Second Life and Fallout 4. I can only assume that they are very different in terms of the legal ownership of content considering that Second Life was as much a business opportunity as it was a game.

 

I'm not a lawyer (nor am I the best at this sort of thing), but from what I have seen others indicate by their reading of the EULA for Fallout 4 (most importantly the opinions of some staff members) the mods do in fact belong to the mod creators, pending they are not selling them for money. I believe Dark0ne mentioned this fact in his public statement on the Bethesda.net website. Could be wrong about that last part.

 

From what I have seen... there is a lot of "mis-reading" of the EULA.... the reality is that the EULA was written to protect Zenimax from the content created by third parties moreso than to protect the content creators themselves. The best way to read the EULA in regards to ownership of mods is that the mod creator owns them unless Zenimax decides they don't. The fact that Zenimax can unilaterally decide at will which mods are owned by whom is the really telling portion of the EULA because to give rights to anyone, one first has to own those rights.

[marcmorr6]

You seem to think that either (1) Bethesda really owns the copyright on mods or (2) Mods can't be copywritten because they're concepts. (2) is clearly false, mods are files. And the "mod thieves" are not stealing the idea for a mod and then recreating it--they're taking the actual files and posting them for download without the creator's permission.

 

So, I think you probably mean (1). Which brings me to:

 

For clarity, ZeniMax Owned UGC does not include (i) any Content that You create or develop if such Content or if the creation or development of such Content would constitute a breach of this Agreement or any Supplementary Terms or would violate any law, (ii) any Content that You create or develop without the use of Content provided or made available by ZeniMax or (iii) ANY GAME MODS (as defined below).

--Zenimax terms of service Section 2, subsection B, paragraph 5. https://bethesda.net/#en/termsofservice.

 

See my most recent comment... If you read the EULA in its entirety you see that it is written in such a way that Zenimax ultimately retains control over everything while protecting themselves for content created by third parties. The EULA was not written to protect content creators, at least not as a primary concern.

[RS13]

I'm not sure why you think "The best way to read the EULA in regards to ownership of mods is that the mod creator owns them unless Zenimax decides they don't." Where's your evidence? I gave you chapter and verse.

 

Second, while you are right that the EULA is designed to protect Zenimax, it doesn't mean that Zenimax can just require *anything.* In many cases, Zenimax qualifies their statements with "except as prohibited by law." The EULA can only protect Z as far as the law will allow.

 

And on that point, copyright law is designed to protect *creators.* Zenimax will never, ever, even after the bombs fall be able to have ownership of anything a modder creates. If all you do is change the weight on a weapon or change a game setting, they might have some claim to own that (though I doubt it). But they absolutely cannot have claim to models, textures, scripts, stories or new voice files added by modders.

[iXenite]

Zenimax will never, ever, even after the bombs fall be able to have ownership of anything a modder creates. If all you do is change the weight on a weapon or change a game setting, they might have some claim to own that (though I doubt it). But they absolutely cannot have claim to models, textures, scripts, stories or new voice files added by modders.

 

This part is not exactly true. The EULA does state that if you try and sell your mods, then Zenimax owns them. This is true because the mod was created with their tools. It would be not much different than Epic Games claiming the legal right to royalties on any product made with Unreal Engine. Zenimax would be entitled to royalties if mods were put behind a paywall, this is why they got a cut of mods when paid modding was going on.

 

[marcmorr6]

I'm not sure why you think "The best way to read the EULA in regards to ownership of mods is that the mod creator owns them unless Zenimax decides they don't." Where's your evidence? I gave you chapter and verse.

 

Second, while you are right that the EULA is designed to protect Zenimax, it doesn't mean that Zenimax can just require *anything.* In many cases, Zenimax qualifies their statements with "except as prohibited by law." The EULA can only protect Z as far as the law will allow.

 

And on that point, copyright law is designed to protect *creators.* Zenimax will never, ever, even after the bombs fall be able to have ownership of anything a modder creates. If all you do is change the weight on a weapon or change a game setting, they might have some claim to own that (though I doubt it). But they absolutely cannot have claim to models, textures, scripts, stories or new voice files added by modders.

 

 

To be protected under copyright law... you actually have to copyright your work.... filing fee's, paperwork, etc. It isn't your's just because you created it at least not from a legal perspective. You have to legally claim ownership which is a process I would bet many in the modding community don't do. They could even copyright protect the names of their mods as well.

[iXenite]

 

To be protected under copyright law... you actually have to copyright your work.... filing fee's, paperwork, etc. It isn't your's just because you created it at least not from a legal perspective. You have to legally claim ownership which is a process I would bet many in the modding community don't do. They could even copyright protect the names of their mods as well.

 

 

I'm not so sure that is 100% true. However, I do believe it was Arthmoor that suggested mod authors do just that to give their DMCA forms more weight if it came to that.

[marcmorr6]

 

 

To be protected under copyright law... you actually have to copyright your work.... filing fee's, paperwork, etc. It isn't your's just because you created it at least not from a legal perspective. You have to legally claim ownership which is a process I would bet many in the modding community don't do. They could even copyright protect the names of their mods as well.

 

 

I'm not so sure that is 100% true. However, I do believe it was Arthmoor that suggested mod authors do just that to give their DMCA forms more weight if it came to that.

 

 

I experienced this first hand with my nonprofit company. It is exactly how the legal system would handle any claim made. If you want to have real, tangible and protectable copyright you have to actually file all the right documents and if someone else files them first you have to prove that you are the original creator which can be a very long process.