Don't get angry, get organised! (Stolen mods)

[steelfeathers]

You know what? Arguing about what rights we do/don't have isn't going to get us anywhere.

 

So let's talk about the real reason this thread exists - how do we get ourselves organized so that we can talk to Bethesda and present our suggestions?

 

I know I've heard that some modders are in contact with various Bethesda developers, but I don't remember their names. Do you guys know of any modders we can contact who have an "in" with bethesda?

[Casputin]

I know this is the internet but can we try to keep this a constructive discussion? That's the whole reason this is here, to try and discuss the issue together under a common cause and see what we all agree on.

[steelfeathers]

Oh, and by the way Trykz:

 

http://imgur.com/dJENwIO.jpg

 

 

Read that part again. In laymans terms, it means that Bethesda technically owns everything we make.

 

 

 

 

Back on track: We need contacts at Bethesda to talk to, and an organized channel to talk to them from. I think I might know someone who has contact with a Bethesda developer, so I'm going to go chat them up for the info.

Edited June 8, 2016 by steelfeathers

[Trykz]

I know this is the internet but can we try to keep this a constructive discussion? That's the whole reason this is here, to try and discuss the issue together under a common cause and see what we all agree on.

 

Agreed. I made my suggestion. Both here and on Beth.net. And it conforms to every other major modding site's solution to the letter. As it has for over a decade.

 

Remove the mod in question first, make the uploader verify later.

 

It doesn't get any simpler.

 

Trykz

[Casputin]

Read that part again. In laymans terms, it means that Bethesda technically owns everything we make.

 

Which is why we're relying on Bethesda to do the right thing and need to communicate with them, rather than locking horns with them. If we had an "official" voice to represent our concerns, we could maybe make Bethnet and console mods work for everyone. I honestly don't believe they hold us in any contempt, contrary to a lot of what's being said.

[steelfeathers]

 

Read that part again. In laymans terms, it means that Bethesda technically owns everything we make.

 

Which is why we're relying on Bethesda to do the right thing and need to communicate with them, rather than locking horns with them. If we had an "official" voice to represent our concerns, we could maybe make Bethnet and console mods work for everyone. I honestly don't believe they hold us in any contempt, contrary to a lot of what's being said.

 

 

I agree completely. So let's start brain-storming! Start throwing out ideas, guys.

[Trykz]

Oh, and by the way Trykz:

 

http://imgur.com/dJENwIO.jpg

 

 

Read that part again. In laymans terms, it means that Bethesda technically owns everything we make.

 

 

 

 

Back on track: We need contacts at Bethesda to talk to, and an organized channel to talk to them from. I think I might know someone who has contact with a Bethesda developer, so I'm going to go chat them up for the info.

 

You should rely on more than just a companies EULA to prove your points:

 

What is copyright?

Copyright is a form of protection provided by U.S. law to the authors of "original works of authorship" fixed in any tangible medium of expression. The manner and medium of fixation are virtually unlimited. Creative expression may be captured in words, numbers, notes, sounds, pictures, or any other graphic or symbolic media. The subject matter of copyright is extremely broad, including literary, dramatic, musical, artistic, audiovisual, and architectural works. Copyright protection is available to both published and unpublished works.

Under the 1976 Copyright Act, the copyright owner has the exclusive right to reproduce, adapt, distribute, publicly perform, and publicly display the work. In the case of sound recordings, the copyright owner has the right to perform the work publicly by means of a digital audio transmission. These exclusive rights are freely transferable, and may be licensed, sold, donated to charity, or bequeathed to your heirs. It is illegal for anyone to violate any of the exclusive rights of the copyright owner. If the copyright owner prevails in an infringement claim, the available remedies include preliminary and permanent injunctions (court orders to stop current or prevent future infringements), impounding, and destroying the infringing articles, and monetary remedies.

The exclusive rights of the copyright owner, however, are limited in a number of important ways. Under the "fair use" doctrine, which has long been part of U.S. copyright law and was expressly incorporated in the 1976 Copyright Act, a judge may excuse unauthorized uses that may otherwise be infringing. Section 107 of the Copyright Act lists criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research as examples of uses that may be eligible for the fair use defense. In other instances, the limitation takes the form of a "compulsory license" under which certain limited uses of copyrighted works are permitted upon payment of specified royalties and compliance with statutory conditions. The Copyright Act also contains a number of statutory limitations covering specific uses for educational, religious, and charitable purposes

 

And this as well:

 

This is a frequently misunderstood topic because many people believe that you must register your work before you can claim copyright. However, no publication, registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is "created" when it is fixed in a "copy or a phonorecord for the first time." For example, a song can be fixed in sheet music or on a CD, or both. Although registration with the Copyright Office is not required to secure protection, it is highly recommended for the following reasons:

• Registration establishes a public record of the copyright claim.
• Registration is necessary before an infringement suit may be filed in court (for works of U. S. origin).
• If made before or within 5 years of publication, registration establishes prima facie evidence in court of the validity of the copyright and of the facts stated in the certificate.
• If registration is made within 3 months after publication of the work or prior to an infringement of the work, statutory damages and attorney's fees will be available to the copyright owner in court actions. Otherwise, only an award of actual damages and profits is available to the copyright owner.
• Registration allows the owner of the copyright to record the registration with the U. S. Customs Service for protection against the importation of infringing copies.

source: http://www.uspto.gov/learning-and-resources/ip-policy/copyright/copyright-basics

 

In layman's terms, it means Bethesda CANNOT circumvent the law through wording in their EULA, because they cannot *take* my works and use them in ANY manner that I do not give my express permission for. Yes, I used THEIR toolkit to put MY assets into their game. But the use of their toolkit does NOT give them control of my assets. Because that would be like CD makers taking an artists music and doing as they please with it, merely because they used a CD to record it on. As the cited example CLEARLY states.

 

Trykz

[steelfeathers]

 

Oh, and by the way Trykz:

 

 

Trykz

 

 

I agree...for things like original armor. If you mod ONLY uses Bethesda assets, however...those assets are still bethesda's assets, regardless of how you've rearranged them.

[XX4HorsemenXX]

 

 

Read that part again. In laymans terms, it means that Bethesda technically owns everything we make.

 

Which is why we're relying on Bethesda to do the right thing and need to communicate with them, rather than locking horns with them. If we had an "official" voice to represent our concerns, we could maybe make Bethnet and console mods work for everyone. I honestly don't believe they hold us in any contempt, contrary to a lot of what's being said.

 

 

I agree completely. So let's start brain-storming! Start throwing out ideas, guys.

 

US copyright law trumps an EULA any day. If Bethesda truly owned what we made, then when a mod containing a new custom made asset is uploaded, it would mean we wouldn't legally be allowed to use said asset elsewhere. Since that's NOT the case it means mod authors retain the rights to what ever assets they create, regardless of the format it may be converted to.

Edited June 8, 2016 by XX4HorsemenXX

[steelfeathers]

 

 

 

Read that part again. In laymans terms, it means that Bethesda technically owns everything we make.

 

Which is why we're relying on Bethesda to do the right thing and need to communicate with them, rather than locking horns with them. If we had an "official" voice to represent our concerns, we could maybe make Bethnet and console mods work for everyone. I honestly don't believe they hold us in any contempt, contrary to a lot of what's being said.

 

 

I agree completely. So let's start brain-storming! Start throwing out ideas, guys.

 

US copyright law trumps an EULA any day. If Bethesda truly owned what we made, then when a mod containing a new custom made asset is uploaded, it would mean we wouldn't legally be allowed to use said asset elsewhere. Since that's NOT the case it means mod authors retain the rights to what ever assets they create, regardless of the format it may be converted to.

 

 

I'm not talking about custom, completely new assets. I'm talking about mods that just re-use existing assets. Which, frankly, is most mods.

So, again, it does us no good to approach Bethesda like an angry mob. Because most mods that we make are essentially just re-arrangements of the existing legos. (Not that that makes them bad, not at all. It's just that we don't own those existing legos.)