Nexus Mod support request for console

[zanity]

It is hilarious seeing people who THINK they speak in some official capacity for the Nexus claim that Beth is every modders friend, and that Zenimax is a loving corporation that wishes nothing but the best for Nexus in the future.

 

Business is WAR, and the owners of Zenimax almost laugh themselves to death at the 'little people' at the bottom who try to distort reality in order to see the rich and powerful as 'saints'. Some people need to be made to read 'Animal Farm' over and over till they get the messgae.

 

Beth.net was set up for 100% COMMERCIAL reasons, and as such the Nexus, by definition STEALS potential revenue from Zenimax. As a corporation, BY DEFINITION, Zenimax will do everything it can to end this competition.

 

Stage 1 is dangling the promise of CASH in front of easily swayed modders- so said modders see no further than their own nose. As Steam PROVES, a successful game can make a fortune selling the most trivial of post release content. This falls under the MICROTRANSACTION concept so beloved by Apple.

 

Stage 2 is creating bad blood between modders, Nexus and Beth.net. In the short term, hate thrown at Beth.net (even if for the most valid reasons) does Beth no real hard at all, since the site is still in an experimental embryo stage. But the poison does established entities like Nexus real harm- since Nexus foolishly allows modders free range to do highly counter-productive things like hide their mods.

 

Stage 3 is to move Beth.net to a much more professional standing- with more money/competitions/sponsorship for modders.

 

Stage 4 is to introduce a modular modding system for future Beth games that is more robust, easier to support, and requires IP block signatures so each Mod requires Beth permission for distribution, so Beth can force all such mods to EXCLUSIVELY use Beth.net. Technically this is TRIVIAL to implement, IF a new open-world game engine is built from scratch to support mods with embedded IP block signatures- CLUE, that is what Beth has done with the new iDTech open-world game engine showcased early in Doom and Dishonored 2.

 

I am horrified at the fools who claim such an explanation is a 'conspiracy theory'. really we STILL have that dribble after everything Assange and Snowden have revealed (using OFFICIAL documentation) about how the world REALLY works. Beth's public facing PR people exist to LIE- to tell you 'comforting' things.

 

But here's something to think about. When Disney hopes to make a BILLION in film sales for some movie, it knows it needs to lay down at least 300 million in dev and promotion costs to make that film. When Beth made the BILLION+ in sales FO4, it gave the dev task to a hopeless B-team, and cheaped out on the dev costs to well under 50 million. That's the kind of spend to profit ratio Zenimax adores- and Zenimax adores how fools lavish praise on Beth even after it cheaps out on game development to such an extent as we see in FO4.

 

The AAA game industry makes 'Hollywood Accounting' seem like Heaven's own buisness practices by comparison, so let's stop with the 'nice' AAA developer nonsense, and get real. Beth's IP benefits from the modding community to an insane financial degree just as the Stra Trek and Star Wars IP were inflated in value to a monstrous level by allowing fans freedom to indulge in their own versions of the IP. This is NOT generosity by the corporations, but SLAVERY (the TRUE name you give to unpaid labour that makes another RICH).

 

I've said it before. The only real answer is for 'workers' to 'own' the 'means of production'- in other words for modders to be modding an OPEN-SOURCE game where EVERYTHING is community created. If Nexus was forward thinking (and sadly such resources never are) it would back a project to create a free and open post-apocalypic game, and a fantasy one - I mean could anyone do a WORSE job technically than what we see in the dreadfully coded FO4?

 

Such a project was never possible before cos of limitations in RAM, CPU and GPU resources. Now we can envisage infinitely extensible open gaming worlds, where crowd sourcing can be used to produce most of the content. If you think the alternative is 'better' (waiting 5+ years for Beth to make a game as poor as FO4), well you just are not thinking clearly.

 

But if modding continues to mean modding a BETH OWNED GAME, well Zenimax (and Sony and Microsoft) wins 100%, and such modding will only happen to draconian Beth rules on Beth.net.

[Syntensity]

There is no civil solution to this. The lines have been drawn, first by the thieves I might add, and now both side have dug there heels in beyond the point of no return.

 

This won't be resolved until one side loses, and when one side loses both sides will lose something. You simply can't win.

 

I wanted to give my mod to everybody, I even wanted to make an exclusive Xbox and PlayStation armor retexture as part of my mod that only the consoles would get to show that I support console gaming. But now... now I don't want to give it to anyone, not the Nexus, not consoles, not Bethesda...

You have every right to feel that way I supose. I myself am a (web)designer and if I'd see my work being stolen, I would definetly not appreciate that either. I do think that there is a civil solution to it though, even now stolen content gets removed from Bethesda... It's just that it takes a long time before they do so, which I can't really blame them for entirely. Maybe we need to be patient on both ends? The thievery affects everyone, not just the players but also the mod creators.

 

This only proves the point that it really is a global problem, it's not just console players stealing content it's everybody stealing other people's digital property from everywhere. It's not just mods, it could be anything really (logo's, pictures etc.) that's something that will never stop. I guess what I'm really trying to say is, that they should somehow find a way to monitor ownership of mods, that way people can't just get away with that kind of stuff. And it would re-encourage modders to place their content on Bethesda.net again. That would be a start I think?

[tartarsauce2]

It is hilarious seeing people who THINK they speak in some official capacity for the Nexus claim that Beth is every modders friend, and that Zenimax is a loving corporation that wishes nothing but the best for Nexus in the future.

 

Business is WAR, and the owners of Zenimax almost laugh themselves to death at the 'little people' at the bottom who try to distort reality in order to see the rich and powerful as 'saints'. Some people need to be made to read 'Animal Farm' over and over till they get the messgae.

 

Stage 3 is to move Beth.net to a much more professional standing- with more money/competitions/sponsorship for modders.

 

Stage 4 is to introduce a modular modding system for future Beth games that is more robust, easier to support, and requires IP block signatures so each Mod requires Beth permission for distribution, so Beth can force all such mods to EXCLUSIVELY use Beth.net. Technically this is TRIVIAL to implement, IF a new open-world game engine is built from scratch to support mods with embedded IP block signatures- CLUE, that is what Beth has done with the new iDTech open-world game engine showcased early in Doom and Dishonored 2.

 

I am horrified at the fools who claim such an explanation is a 'conspiracy theory'. really we STILL have that dribble after everything Assange and Snowden have revealed (using OFFICIAL documentation) about how the world REALLY works. Beth's public facing PR people exist to LIE- to tell you 'comforting' things.

But if modding continues to mean modding a BETH OWNED GAME, well Zenimax (and Sony and Microsoft) wins 100%, and such modding will only happen to draconian Beth rules on Beth.net.

ah, step 4 is a good way to put it, this is in fact what my own suggestion is aimed at... heading off I guess, personally I don't want an enclosed pasture system in the slightest, and I'm loyal to *this* current method

 

stolen content on bethesda "just works" for point 2 because regardless of what YOU, or ANYONE on nexus thinks, the only thing this will do for now, is drive up a higher RATIO of users on beth.net to nexus

once there's enough people it's possible to "flip the script" and send nexus packing

 

thus the only protections are "social" protections, things that the community engages in, and as such it's important to note that attempts to alienate people from the nexus, or to bethesda.net are always going to be suspect

 

drakethatmodguy

yeah, okay it's a bad idea then, there's not really any great ideas

reallllllly hating the manipulative behaviour of corporations now...

Edited June 9, 2016 by tartarsauce2

[TeamBacon]

 

This only proves the point that it really is a global problem, it's not just console players stealing content it's everybody stealing other people's digital property from everywhere. It's not just mods, it could be anything really (logo's, pictures etc.) that's something that will never stop. I guess what I'm really trying to say is, that they should somehow find a way to monitor ownership of mods, that way people can't just get away with that kind of stuff. And it would re-encourage modders to place their content on Bethesda.net again. That would be a start I think?

 

The thing is, the idea of ownership is a bit weird in the case of a free mod that I designed to give away for free to as many people as possible.

 

This isn't the same as 'everyone is taking my stuff without asking and I am not able to make money'.

 

My goal is to give my mods away, I want as many people as possible to play it and enjoy it.

 

 

 

The thing is, when you steal it and upload it under your name, or even worse, you take it and put it in a pack with other mods, then I don't get credit for it.

 

But it isn't as much about the credit, but just the fact that it is rude. And then the people on the Nexus answer back by being just as rude and hateful toward console players and start planning on installing Malware in mods to hurt people.

 

Modding shouldn't be about hurting people.

 

 

 

I don't need to protect my mod, I am not worried about that stuff. I am going to market it, add special exclusives for console players, and release it on Bethesda.net myself and nobody will even want to pirate it.

 

I just sometimes don't feel it is worth it if everyone both on consoles and on Bethesda.net and on the Nexus is going to be so hateful toward everyone else.

[Nixsy]

 

 

This only proves the point that it really is a global problem, it's not just console players stealing content it's everybody stealing other people's digital property from everywhere. It's not just mods, it could be anything really (logo's, pictures etc.) that's something that will never stop. I guess what I'm really trying to say is, that they should somehow find a way to monitor ownership of mods, that way people can't just get away with that kind of stuff. And it would re-encourage modders to place their content on Bethesda.net again. That would be a start I think?

 

The thing is, the idea of ownership is a bit weird in the case of a free mod that I designed to give away for free to as many people as possible.

 

This isn't the same as 'everyone is taking my stuff without asking and I am not able to make money'.

 

My goal is to give my mods away, I want as many people as possible to play it and enjoy it.

 

 

 

The thing is, when you steal it and upload it under your name, or even worse, you take it and put it in a pack with other mods, then I don't get credit for it.

 

But it isn't as much about the credit, but just the fact that it is rude. And then the people on the Nexus answer back by being just as rude and hateful toward console players and start planning on installing Malware in mods to hurt people.

 

Modding shouldn't be about hurting people.

 

 

 

I don't need to protect my mod, I am not worried about that stuff. I am going to market it, add special exclusives for console players, and release it on Bethesda.net myself and nobody will even want to pirate it.

 

I just sometimes don't feel it is worth it if everyone both on consoles and on Bethesda.net and on the Nexus is going to be so hateful toward everyone else.

 

 

 

These are the word of the day dude.

 

"I just sometimes don't feel it is worth it if everyone both on consoles and on Bethesda.net and on the Nexus is going to be so hateful toward everyone else."

[yzerman19]

The age of PC is over...we are in the age of Trump! So pick your side and dig in!

 

as for me...LONG LIVE THE PC MASTER RACE!

[PhillKills]

Well I appreciate you all not hating both Syntensity and my self for bringing this topic to light. We really to just appreciate any engagement at all right now. Whether anyone realizes it or not, these are the first steps to some kind of common ground. We linked this forum in our other forum on Bethesda.Net to send people here. Show those people what your view points and opinions are.

[DrakeTheDragon]

Just "Drake" is fine, thank you. I'm among friends here, or would-be friends at least.

 

I'm a little surprised the big players among the authors haven't chimed in here, yet, considering this is like the only civilized topic the two parts of the community are communicating in that I can see. But as they're likely already hanging around in your topic over at Bethesda.net anyways, this perhaps isn't the right place for them to do anymore either.

 

This topic so far has been kept mostly clear of those moronic PC vs. Console war talk you're seeing brought up everywhere lately either, well, apart from a few unwelcome interruptions which are already put on mental-ignore anyways. (Sadly I can't put them on real ignore, of course, because having to moderate these people I must be able to read their posts.)

 

But have you ever wondered why the stolen mods have multitudes of reports of broken games in their comments now? Or why the real authors of them haven't put up their work on console instead right on day one?

Guess what? They "knew". They knew their mods will break your games in their current state, and thus weren't putting them up over there themselves, "yet". They need time to make them compatible with your consoles, to port them the right way, or to maybe get around to first investigate what the right way even is to begin with. The thieves who stole their work prematurely and uploaded incompatible console-wrecking versions now instead did not do you a service. Best they achieved was putting a few of the authors off from even attempting to port their mods now. These are "your" enemies as much as they're "their's", remember.

 

@tartarsauce2: Don't get me wrong. Coming up with new ideas or suggestions to improve the current situation is always a good thing. I was just seeing a couple really controversial points inside your's and wanted to bring them up and why, so you're not that surprised when you address some authors about it and they react in the wrong ways to you in response.

 

And as for those technical / scripted means mentioned to make mods break on consoles or the like, this isn't actually what you make it out to be. Unlike the wrongly ported stolen ones now, what this niche group of authors came up with, and as far as I know likely isn't even really serious about to begin with, does not really damage your games. Some approaches will make them shut down, others CTD, again others "might" damage save games perhaps, but even then there's always an automatic backup from before the mod was activated, if I recall correctly, unless Bethesda removed this announced safety-net feature of modding on consoles again before going live. (How would I know? The SNES was the last console I used. ^^)

 

And let's not forget this isn't made to prevent things from "working on console". This is made so all the thieves can steal is useless junk which will shut down games and really cannot be used on consoles, unlike just letting it run without these means and causing "real" harm to your systems instead, like what the thieves' uploads do now. All you need to do is uninstall the stolen mod again, and your games will be back to normal, or at least that's what Bethesda was promising.

 

The majority in support of DRM measures proposed is favoring means to just detect use on console and pop up a message box informing you of the theft and that it's dangerous to go on using an incompatible damaging port in your game instead, or making it dependent on things you can't have so it can't even be used to begin with and cause damage to your consoles.

 

These authors are perfectionists, with a huge sense of professionalism as well. They cannot and will not ever post a mod for you to use that will just inevitably kill your console. If you don't see their mods on Bethesda.net right now, there's usually very good reason for. I'm not saying there aren't also those who aren't using the Bethesda.net platform, "yet", simply because they don't want to use the mess it is in its current state. But the supposed PC Elitists who flat out "refuse" to share their mods with consoles everybody and their mother over on that site is speaking of, quite frankly, I have an exceptionally hard time finding here.

 

 

(Well, basically I'm honestly talking out my a** here, for I'm neither owning a console nor part of modding that game. But I'm watching these things, also behind the scenes, and when I see you being purposely mis-presented intentionally falsified facts all places to drive along some weird agenda, that's mostly to your disadvantage also, then I think you should know.)

[Syntensity]

I've seen a lot of awesome replies to this topic right here, I think that's a great thing. I too am quite surprised that we haven't really had an official response yet. But the point Drake is making is definetly among the best reasons as to why those mods aren't available on Bethesda.net. I supose I'm just really curious and would happily want to find out what other possible reasons could be. And I'm happy that this community right here embraces this topic with open arms, that really means something guys.

 

MXR mods seems to mention something about it (don't mind the thumbnail)

 

A few possible reasons why there aren't many Nexus (or other platform) mods on Bethesda.net [XB1] right now

• The actual original (not broken), professional mods are in the works
• The mods may take time due to various reasons
  • Duties: we all have duties, a lot (if not all) create mods as a hobby, they make it available to us for free and because they have to do that on top of all the duties they have right now (sports, work, kids etc.) it makes it very time consuming for them. Perhaps that's why we just have to be patient and wait a little longer, I guess?
  • Compatibility issues: not everything that works on PC will work on console, so compromises need to be made
  • Bethesda: not supporting certain mods like: CBBE (even though right now people are pushing their limits and uploading nude mods all over the place on Bethesda.net)
  • Perfectionism: the author / creator of the mod doesn't want to upload their mod yet, because it simply isn't working properly yet or doesn't has the results he/she desires
  • Damage: some mods may damage your console, no author wants to be responsible for it
  • Testing: not every author owns a console which makes testing/bug fixing very hard and frustrating
  • Timing: maybe right now isn't the best timing, summer holidays are about the hit for most people the weather is great and the thievery doesn't make it better
  • Filesize: there is a 2GB limit on the xbox mods and this means that some mods simply won't hit the xbox due to their filesize, and if I'm correct you can't compress for xbox one (yet)
• A minority of PC elitist simply doesn't want to bring their mods to console (I haven't seen those, it's just a possibility)
• A boycott against the thievery going on (I get where the authors are coming from but it doesn't seem to affect the thieves only the players, however it does raise awareness and might give people the incentive to support the cause)

Above I've stated some points I think could be reasons why mod authors are less likely to put their mods on Bethesda.net for console, for now....

 

So to the modders out there what is your reasoning behind this (obviously could be anything else, but maybe it's one or more of the above), I would love to know so I get a better understanding of the situation ^^

Edited June 10, 2016 by Syntensity

[TeamBacon]

 

A few possible reasons why there aren't many Nexus (or other platform) mods on Bethesda.net [XB1] right now

• The actual original (not broken), professional mods are in the works
• The mods may take time due to various reasons
  • Duties: we all have duties, a lot (if not all) create mods as a hobby, they make it available to us for free and because they have to do that on top of all the duties they have right now (sports, work, kids etc.) it makes it very time consuming for them. Perhaps that's why we just have to be patient and wait a little longer, I guess?

 

It sounds like you are trying to make excuses for something we don't need to be excused from.

 

The Creation Kit was released in beta 6 weeks ago. We have barely even had time to get started on stuff. We don't need your excuses as to why we are not finished yet.

 

 

 

There are teams of people like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nenXX9wQRY that are still working on New Vegas stuff years later, because they are passionate about the work.

 

But now everyone is on YouTube watching MXR cover Skyrim mods 4 years later and wondering why 6 weeks into having the Creation Kit in our hands, we haven't given you that...

 

This will probably come off as rude of me, but I'm just being honest... The only excuse that needs to be made is for the entitled people who unrealistically expect the quality of mods that Skyrim had, on their Xbox, a short 2 weeks after we have been able to even see what console modding looks like.

 

 

 

2 weeks ago, we had no idea how console modding would even look, how things would perform, and what we could or couldn't do for a platform such as an Xbox. I'm willing to bet 99% of the people here have never developed a videogame for an Xbox before.

 

The Creation Kit, being Bethesda's own tool, we can assume is a bit more friendly to console developing. However, up until 6 weeks ago we only had tools such as Fo4Edit, which is a great tool, but has never in its history been tried on a console, not until 2 weeks ago.

 

We still don't know what exactly the long term consequences are of putting these 'pre Creation Kit' mods onto an Xbox.

 

2 weeks is not enough time for us to test it and make sure our product is safe.

Edited June 10, 2016 by TeamBacon