Repudiate Congress

[Marxist ßastard]

Is the current Congress so corrupt that we'd do better with a bunch of folks picked off the street?

 

More precisely: If a magical fairy waved a wand and made Congress into:

• A single house,
• With one representative per congressional district,
• Each chosen at random,
• From the district's qualified and interested citizens,
• Via a fully-transparent paper lottery,
• Held every two years.

Would the fairy have made things better or worse?

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PLEASE NOTE:

This is a thought experiment.  An

intentionally   stupid   question

posed so we can discuss political

science theory.  Take  any “real”

suggestions to  the other thread.

Don't try  to improve the  stupid

one.  Because that would make you

a stupid person.                 

[HSovieticus]

Comrade. I'm not sure how to approach this. If, as you say, a magical fairy affected these changes, how can this thought experiment tell us anything at all about material reality? In this thought experiment, you have the immaterial god-spirit (for whom your love has been expressed :tongue: ) affecting the material superstructure of capitalist society. Yet, the material basis for capital's power over labour still exists. So does the fairy abandon us after making these changes, allowing the base to restore the original superstructure? Or does the fairy remain in perpetuity to enforce this unnatural governmental system through force of magic alone? Are we not then living under the dictatorship of magic (as opposed to labour or capital)? Call me stupid if you like, but i do not understand how magic can teach us anything about matter. Nor do i think any meaningful discussion could be had over such a hypothetical. It must also be said that the concept of social governance has absolutely nothing to do with eliminating corruption -- ie. your hypothetical implies that the current system of governance was supposed to be social in the first place. Do you want to perfect capitalism, or do you want to destroy it? Edited November 2, 2011 by HSovieticus

[marharth]

We pick random people for murder trials and such. I don't think it would make any difference.

 

Not like anyone in congress is actually professional anyways.

[Marxist ßastard]

how can this thought experiment tell us anything at all about material reality?

Directly? Absolutely nothing. Indirectly? People's confidence in Congress. The need for experienced politicians. Corruption. Greed. Whether we can tolerate pure chance when faced with a known-bad alternative. How much power should go to a single voting body. How far a republic's government should be abstracted from its citizens. And anything else that comes up.

 

So does the fairy abandon us after making these changes

Yes. But by sheer coincidence, nobody ever tries to game the system or get elected twice. (But people still attempt to lobby/bribe each set of representatives.)

 

Do you want to perfect capitalism, or do you want to destroy it?

I don't think you quite get the point. If the lottery picks out 70% of the House to be card-carrying Communists, they'd probably make reforms toward Communism. If the 70% came from Rand's cult, things would go the other way. In either case, the lottery would probably be dissolved or the field of candidates limited. It's statistically inevitable that one situation or the other will happen. How long do you think it will take?

 

We pick random people for murder trials

Juries send innocent people to prison all the time. And they rarely think about the fairness of the law, simply because the trappings of the legal system make them believe they're part of the law. Would you trust the same sort of people to write and pass bills? Is it possible that an average Joe placed in a congressperson's seat would automatically become corrupt, since “that's what congresspeople do”?

[HeyYou]

Considering congress has the lowest approval rate it has EVER had...... Damn near anything would be an improvement. I would change a few details though..... If someone actually WANTED to be in congress, they would automatically be disqualified from serving. Straight lottery. If your number comes up, you go to washington, and play congressperson for two years. Just like the draft. There would be reasons for self-disqualification though...... unfit to serve for health reasons for instance. I am also not sure I would like the guy that had 34 drunk driving convictions in congress either. :D

[grannywils]

As a thought experiement, I'll take a shot. You say "qualified", and since we are not going to get too heavy on this one, I will accept that. In that case, all things being equal, why not. I'd say things might possibly be a tad better. In my opinion a large number of our current Congresspeople are unqualified, and possibly not all that interested. So, we already have an improvement.

 

 

 

For all of you who became unhinged by my use of Comic Sans, I really hope that you are reveling in my use of these other fonts, as I HATE them!!!:biggrin:

 

 

[Marxist ßastard]

If someone actually WANTED to be in congress, they would automatically be disqualified from serving

In my opinion a large number of our current Congresspeople... possibly not all that interested

Well, wait: Is it better to have interested or uninterested representatives? An interested representative would probably absorb themselves within congress's culture – so would they keep clean to avoid censure, or would they take bribes since that's part of the game? Would an uninterested representative fare better? Or would they take the stance that they didn't want this anyways, so they don't have to act responsibly?

[HSovieticus]

Hmmm, well... I think the bourgeoisie will be in a far better position to appropriate the new legislative system similar to how the social-democrats appropriated the german revolution (which they tried desperately to prevent) so as to reverse it and set the conditions for the open declaration of fascism.

 

Honestly, I believe the media must be under democratic control before there can be any governmental or economic reforms. Our lumpen-congress needs to know his potential employers do not have the power to control the flow of information. He must know very well that betrayel will be publicized and retaliation will be praised.

Edited November 3, 2011 by HSovieticus

[Marxist ßastard]

Our lumpen-congress needs to know his potential employers do not have the power to control the flow of information. He must know very well that betrayel will be publicized and retaliation will be praised.

But the representatives aren't elected, and anyways we assume there's no chance they hold office twice. Thus they aren't directly responsible to the media – is this an advantage or a disadvantage?

[HSovieticus]

Still, every dictatorship (democratic or not) must be legitimized by a friendly media apparatus. Can these representatives not be recalled or impeached? Can they not also be harassed and threatened... or worse? Media determines more than just the outcome of elections -- it establishes Morality, it shapes Mass Consciousness, and it (mis)directs our efforts. Elections have less to do with picking bad apples -- most people are easily corrupted -- and more to do with placing the blame for this failure on the electorate. Random appointment would serve this function almost as well, if not better. Society, to be truly democratic... it must have some sort of mechanism through which the democratic mandate can be enforced. Edited November 5, 2011 by HSovieticus