Taxation

[Aurielius]

Who's talking about reality?

We are talking about whether taxation is morally wrong or not.

You are. You stated that sales tax is voluntary, which is a conclusive observation of fact. You did not state it COULD or MIGHT be voluntary if we change what sales tax is applied to.

 

Don't deflect blame to me for your own inability to accurately convey your thoughts in a manner that doesn't cause confusion.

 

I choose to pay sales tax or not to, by choosing to buy an item or not to buy it. This is a moral tax, in that it is my choice pay or not to pay.

Again, I pay sales tax on food and clothing. Can I choose not to walk naked in the cold? Can I choose not to eat? There isn't comprehensive public transportation where I live. I must drive a car to and from places. I pay a price for gasoline which includes something like a 30% upmark to account for taxes. Can I choose not to pay these too by not buying gas and being unable to support myself because I can't go to work? Your distinction is moronic at worst and naive at best.

Actually you can walk, just where do live that there is sales tax on food?

 

"Only Five states — Hawaii, Idaho, Kansas, Oklahoma, and South Dakota— tax groceries fully but offer credits or rebates offsetting some of the taxes paid on food by some portions of the population. These credits or rebates usually are set at a flat amount per family member. The amounts and eligibility rules vary, but may be too narrow and/or insufficient to give eligible households full relief from sales taxes paid on food purchases"

[Quetzlsacatanango]

@Quetzlsacatanango

Or you could choose not to work. No job, no income tax. Voluntary taxation, no?

That would seem to be the only alternative if one is deadset on both staying in the country and not being plundered.

[draconix]

I've been away, but it looks like this question is kind of directed towards me so I'll make an attempt..

 

The morality of taxation is a mixed bag, as taxation occurs is different ways.Income tax, sales tax, property tax, et cetera. The only taxation that I find immoral is the taxation of income. The income tax is morally sketchy in the principal of the way it is collected, (which is what makes it an income tax,) which must operate under the assumption that the government is entitled to the fruits of your labor, in that you only get what the government decides to give you what is left over when they're done with it.

 

Federal income tax is not only immoral, but unconstitutional because it was not a power explicitly granted to the federal government in the constitution. State income tax is not unconstitutional as all powers not granted to the federal government is delegated to the state-level. However, it still operates under the same assumption.

[marharth]

@Quetzlsacatanango

Or you could choose not to work. No job, no income tax. Voluntary taxation, no?

That would seem to be the only alternative if one is deadset on both staying in the country and not being plundered.

So how would sales tax be any different? You have to work and get a steady income to buy things. If you don't have money you can not buy things.

[Quetzlsacatanango]

@Quetzlsacatanango

Or you could choose not to work. No job, no income tax. Voluntary taxation, no?

That would seem to be the only alternative if one is deadset on both staying in the country and not being plundered.

So how would sales tax be any different? You have to work and get a steady income to buy things. If you don't have money you can not buy things.

 

A couple of obvious ways.

First, the contract is explicit and I can participate in it as en equal.

Second, I can never be in debt to the government, which is a pretty foul concept if you think about it.

There are probably more, maybe even more profound ways that others may come up with. These are the ones off the top of my head.

[marharth]

@Quetzlsacatanango

Or you could choose not to work. No job, no income tax. Voluntary taxation, no?

That would seem to be the only alternative if one is deadset on both staying in the country and not being plundered.

So how would sales tax be any different? You have to work and get a steady income to buy things. If you don't have money you can not buy things.

 

A couple of obvious ways.

First, the contract is explicit and I can participate in it as en equal.

Second, I can never be in debt to the government, which is a pretty foul concept if you think about it.

There are probably more, maybe even more profound ways that others may come up with. These are the ones off the top of my head.

Okay, but why does it change it to be optional with those two things?

[Quetzlsacatanango]

Sorry, maybe you can rephrase that? I don't understand the question.

[marharth]

How is sales tax not optional?

 

Having a contract or being in debt does not really make it optional or not.

[Quetzlsacatanango]

Sales tax is voluntary. That's what I've been saying all along :)

[marharth]

How is it more optional then income tax?

 

You can choose to buy things, but if you don't you pretty much have to live off the land. You can choose to have a job, but if you don't you pretty much have to live on the land.