NPCs causing lag

[ArchNihil]

Hey all !

 

I'm having a little problem with my Oblivion install lately.

 

I'll try to make it short. Every NPC in the world makes me lag, even if they stay ariound doing nothing.Horses and creatures make me lag to a lesser extend. I can have max 2 visible NPCs on my screen at a time, MAX. If I get... 5-6 NPCs fighting, I'll often get below 10 FPS... If they're around me, but not in my FOV, they don't affect my FPS either. Everything else runs smoothly. I've got HD replacers for everything, All Natural, all settings to the max, FCOM and no matter where I am, I don't lag. I get 30 stable FPS at all times except when grids load where I can get down to... Say 20-24 for a split second. All in all, it plays great... As long as no NPC is around, that is.I get a CTD every now and then, but nothing major.

 

I remember my last install seemed to run smoother in the IC... And I had better cities... And even then, I didn't think it was all that normal...

 

Specs :

 

Intel I7 920 @ 2.66... OCed it to 2.9 to see if it'll be any better... Will try 3.2 afterwards. I have little faith in this however as I read Oblivion doesn't like OC.

6GBs DDR3 1600MHz... I know Oblivion uses only 2. 4 with the patch that seems to be half-working.

ATI Radeon HD 5850... 1GB GDDR5, Doesn't seem to be the culprit however.

My HD sucks... Regular SATA 500GB HD... Not that it really matters anyway...

 

My computer is as fast as it can be. I just re-installed my OS, am always ghosted anyway and closes every process and unused services while playing. I'm also virus/spyware free and defrag daily with MyDefrag. I use Windows 7 64bits. Disabled UAC and all...

 

I use OSR (I should try to tweak the INI a little...) and Streamline only for the Streamsaves and Cell purging. I ain't sure yet if this helps or not. I installed most mods using OBMM, have installed FCOM a few times already, and know how to read manuals.

 

My load order is as is.

 

 

Active Mod Files:

 

00  Oblivion.esm
01  GTAesgaard_2.esm
02  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.3]
03  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]
04  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]
05  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.73]
06  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]
07  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]
08  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]
09  Armamentarium.esm  [Version 1.35]
0A  Artifacts.esm
0B  CM Partners.esm
0C  ScreenEffects.esm
0D  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.3.6]
0E  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp
0F  DLCShiveringIsles.esp
10  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.3]
++  Shivering OOO.esp
11  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp
12  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp
13  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp
14  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp
++  Francesco's Dark Seducer Weapons Patch.esp
++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]
++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]
15  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]
16  Fran_Lv30Item_Maltz.esp
++  LoadingScreens.esp
17  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.3]
18  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 1.3]
++  All Natural - MMM Patch.esp  [Version 1.3]
19  OBGE - Liquid Water.esp
++  Symphony of Violence.esp
1A  Atmospheric Oblivion.esp
1B  Diverse Voices.esp  [Version 0.1a]
1C  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 1.3]
1D  Ayleid Loot EXtension.esp
1E  Ayleid Loot EXtension - OOO Dungeons.esp
1F  Book Jackets Oblivion.esp
++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.78]
20  Torch Arrows.esp
21  VAs Better Gold with no Menu Icon.esp
22  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 5.3]
23  Crowded Roads Revisited.esp  [Version 1.1]
24  Display Stats.esp  [Version 2.0.1]
25  DropLitTorchOBSE.esp  [Version 2.4]
26  Oblivion Graphics Extender Support.esp  [Version 0.42]
27  Streamline 3.1.esp
28  Dynamic Map.esp  [Version 2.0]
29  DLCHorseArmor.esp
2A  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.6]
2B  DLCOrrery.esp
2C  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]
2D  DLCVileLair.esp
2E  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.7]
2F  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
30  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]
31  DLCSpellTomes.esp
++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]
32  DLCThievesDen.esp
33  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]
34  Slof's Oblivion Robe Trader.esp
35  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.73]
36  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]
37  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp
38  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]
39  Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp
++  FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp  [Version 0.9.9]
3A  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp  [Version 1.09]
3B  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB5]
3C  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]
++  OOO-Water_Weeds.esp  [Version 1.33]
3D  OOO-No_Guild_Ownership.esp  [Version 1.33]
++  OOO-DLT_Remover.esp  [Version 1.33]
3E  Alluring Potion Bottles v3.esp
3F  Alluring Wine Bottles.esp
**  OMOBS_SI.esp  [Version 2.0]
++  ArmamentariumLLVendors.esp  [Version 1.35]
40  ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp  [Version 1.35]
41  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]
42  Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]
43  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]
++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]
44  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]
45  FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp  [Version 0.9.9]
++  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]
++  FCOM_LessRats.esp  [Version 0.9.9]
46  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]
++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]
47  Mart's Monster Mod - Zombies for Body Meshes.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]
48  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]
49  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]
++  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]
++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot OOO.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]
++  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]
++  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]
++  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]
**  FCOM_FriendlierFactions.esp  [Version 0.9.9]
4A  FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns.esp  [Version 0.9.9]
4B  FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp  [Version 0.9.9]
++  ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp  [Version 2.01]
++  ArmamentariumLLMagicOOO.esp  [Version 1.35]
++  FineWeapons for OOO.esp
**  LoadingScreens-OOO.esp
4C  KDCircletsOOOOptimized - Loot Only.esp  [Version 1.2]
**  RustyItems for OOO.esp
4D  Geomancy & Gem Dust OOO.esp
4E  OOO-WaterFish.esp  [Version 1.34]
4F  TamrielTransportationNetwork.esp
50  Artifacts.esp
++  Artifacts - ArmaCompleteAddon.esp  [Version 1.0]
51  Insanity's Pet Shop.esp
52  GTAesgaard.esp
53  GTAesgaard_2.esp
54  Gates To Aesgaard 2 Delayer.esp  [Version 1.0]
55  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp
56  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.6]
57  DLCFrostcrag.esp
58  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]
59  Knights.esp
**  Knights - Book Jackets.esp
5A  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.1.1]
5B  The Lost Spires.esp
++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]
++  FCOM_SlofsRobeTrader.esp  [Version 0.9.9]
5C  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]
++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]
++  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]
5D  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]
5E  ANB_No_FastTravel.esp
5F  Enhanced Economy - House prices.esp  [Version 1.0]
60  Quest Award Leveling SI.esp
61  NoBackwardsRunning.esp
62  TeachSpell.esp
63  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.90b]
64  SM_ShiveringIsles.esp  [Version 0.90]
++  SM_DLCSpellTome.esp  [Version 0.90]
++  SM_OOO.esp  [Version 0.90]
++  SM_MMM.esp  [Version 0.90]
++  SM_COBL.esp  [Version 0.90]
65  SM_EnchantStaff.esp  [Version 0.90]
++  SM_Scrolls.esp  [Version 0.90]
++  SM_SigilStone.esp  [Version 0.90]
66  FearsomeMagicka.esp
67  Oblivion XP.esp
++  OOO-Level_Stock.esp  [Version 1.33]
++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.78]
68  CM Partners.esp
69  CM Partners Special NPCs.esp
6A  CM Partners NPC.esp
6B  CM Partners More NPCs.esp
6C  CM Partners Marker NPCs.esp
6D  CM Partners Extra NPCs.esp
++  Mart's Monster Mod - Resized Races.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]
++  Slof's Oblivion Better Beasts.esp
6E  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]
++  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.68EV]
++  bgMagicEVStartspells.esp  [Version 1.68EV]
6F  bgMagicBonus.esp  [Version 1.7EV]
++  bgMagicEVAddEnVar.esp  [Version 1.68EV]
++  Visually Enchanted 2.1.esp
70  SnArrowEffects.esp
**  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 0.9.9]
++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]
**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.3]
71  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

 

 

Not that I have 1000 mods either, eh ? All I have not listend in here are various OBSE plugins required by mods and texture replacers for everything... Except body replacers. I do like the look of having some kind of medieval pornstar walking around naked, but I enjoy playing the game rather than looking at it. ;] Apart from improved facial and hair textures, characters are stock. I'm totally lost and fed-up and would greatly appreciate your help. I'm ready to try a lot to avoid re-installing... Coudln't stand doing it all over again.

 

If there's anything else you need to know, just ask.

 

Cheers.

Arch.

 

P.S : I really think RAEVWD looks awesome. I'd like to install that with AWLS... Think it'd cripple my PC to no end ?

Edited November 8, 2011 by ArchNihil

[MShoap13]

ATI Radeon HD 4850...

 

It's normal to see some slowdown when NPCs are in the frame. Especially if multiple NPCs are in the frame and even more so if they're fighting. Your card isn't a particularly good card and even though Oblivion is 5 years old, all the texture replacers etc. seem to be taking their toll.

 

Your card vs. a 9800 GTX

Why a 9800 GTX? Because it's really the first card that performed exceptionally well with Oblivion on max settings @ 1080p (without mods). Pay close attention to the Texel rate.

Edited November 8, 2011 by MShoap13

[ArchNihil]

ATI Radeon HD 4850...

 

Uh...

 

Wat ?

 

EDIT : I meant 5850. Sorry.

 

EDIT : Wiped Oblivion.ini and made a new one. Seems to have improved my game generally a little. Doesn't change a thing with NPCs though. The OC either made it slightly better or it didn't change a thing. Still haven't decided. Going to mess with OSR...

Edited November 8, 2011 by ArchNihil

[ArchNihil]

ATI Radeon HD 4850...

 

It's normal to see some slowdown when NPCs are in the frame. Especially if multiple NPCs are in the frame and even more so if they're fighting. Your card isn't a particularly good card and even though Oblivion is 5 years old, all the texture replacers etc. seem to be taking their toll.

 

Your card vs. a 9800 GTX

Why a 9800 GTX? Because it's really the first card that performed exceptionally well with Oblivion on max settings @ 1080p (without mods). Pay close attention to the Texel rate.

 

As I said when I edited my post, I have a 5850... Which obviously pwns a 9800 GTX in all aspects. It ain't my GPU. (Well, I SERIOUSLY doubt it.)

 

I just tried setting core affinity also... Didn't do s***.

 

EDIT : Tried messing around with OSR... Didn't change a thing either. I'm sort of running short on ideas...

Edited November 8, 2011 by ArchNihil

[shinobi2008]

ATI Radeon HD 4850...

 

It's normal to see some slowdown when NPCs are in the frame. Especially if multiple NPCs are in the frame and even more so if they're fighting. Your card isn't a particularly good card and even though Oblivion is 5 years old, all the texture replacers etc. seem to be taking their toll.

 

Your card vs. a 9800 GTX

Why a 9800 GTX? Because it's really the first card that performed exceptionally well with Oblivion on max settings @ 1080p (without mods). Pay close attention to the Texel rate.

 

As I said when I edited my post, I have a 5850... Which obviously pwns a 9800 GTX in all aspects. It ain't my GPU. (Well, I SERIOUSLY doubt it.)

 

I just tried setting core affinity also... Didn't do s***.

 

EDIT : Tried messing around with OSR... Didn't change a thing either. I'm sort of running short on ideas...

Unfortunately no matter what GPU you have, the game is going to lag a bit sooner or later because it was not optimized to use the current technology back then. :confused: Also the game is not set up for multi-core CPU. I would suggest not to mess with core affinity because it screwed up my game when I did. :wacko: :blink: Try toning down your graphic settings a little to see if that helps i.e setting anisotropic filtering to 8x instead of 16x if you have that set up etc etc. :wallbash: :psyduck:

[ArchNihil]

ATI Radeon HD 4850...

 

It's normal to see some slowdown when NPCs are in the frame. Especially if multiple NPCs are in the frame and even more so if they're fighting. Your card isn't a particularly good card and even though Oblivion is 5 years old, all the texture replacers etc. seem to be taking their toll.

 

Your card vs. a 9800 GTX

Why a 9800 GTX? Because it's really the first card that performed exceptionally well with Oblivion on max settings @ 1080p (without mods). Pay close attention to the Texel rate.

 

As I said when I edited my post, I have a 5850... Which obviously pwns a 9800 GTX in all aspects. It ain't my GPU. (Well, I SERIOUSLY doubt it.)

 

I just tried setting core affinity also... Didn't do s***.

 

EDIT : Tried messing around with OSR... Didn't change a thing either. I'm sort of running short on ideas...

Unfortunately no matter what GPU you have, the game is going to lag a bit sooner or later because it was not optimized to use the current technology back then. :confused: Also the game is not set up for multi-core CPU. I would suggest not to mess with core affinity because it screwed up my game when I did. :wacko: :blink: Try toning down your graphic settings a little to see if that helps i.e setting anisotropic filtering to 8x instead of 16x if you have that set up etc etc. :wallbash: :psyduck:

 

In fact, I used to run Oblivion with the same rig at better speeds on my last install... I'm not using it right now. I'm pretty sure this is CPU related rather than GPU related actually... I don't get lag except with NPCs. Pretty sure I did something wrong during the setup which is eating my resources... Have no clue where to start looking though.

 

Though, as you suggested, screw core affinities... Didn't notice much of an improvement anyway...

 

Next things I'm going to try... Tae care of my computer's dust. Trying disabling Streamline... I think I notice some general FPS increase, however I'll put it back on if I notice anymore crashes. Will try to play with all sounds disabled... And... Anything else anyone might mention on here.-_-

 

EDIT : Disabling sound didn't do a thing.

Edited November 8, 2011 by ArchNihil

[David Brasher]

It is my understanding that NPCs cause lag when they are loaded into memory. It does not matter if they are in the viewing frame or not. (If they are wearing armor with a high poly-count, that will cause even more lag, but that lag is from graphics. NPCs cause lag because of AI and scripting.) So an NPC is loaded into memory and being fully processed when in the same interior cell you are in, or the same 5x5 exterior block of cells. The "persistent actor" thing is sort of a joke. The computer treats them differently than it treats non-persistent actors, but it takes so many shortcuts in faking their behavior while you are not around, that it even looks fake in-game. Clearly these actors are not loaded into memory. Like the teleporting actors, actors that move at unreasonably fast or slow rates, the actors that levitate or pick locks while you are gone, and all those actors who don't do anything until you enter the room, and then they suddenly start following their AI packages and idle animations.

 

So if your game lags because of NPCs, remove your mods that add extra NPC, remove things that cause graphical lag or other lag (Better Cities, Unique Landscapes, etc.) and turn your settings so low that the game becomes a real fright to look at.

Edited November 8, 2011 by David Brasher

[ArchNihil]

It is my understanding that NPCs cause lag when they are loaded into memory. It does not matter if they are in the viewing frame or not. (If they are wearing armor with a high poly-count, that will cause even more lag, but that lag is from graphics. NPCs cause lag because of AI and scripting.) So an NPC is loaded into memory and being fully processed when in the same interior cell you are in, or the same 5x5 exterior block of cells. The "persistent actor" thing is sort of a joke. The computer treats them differently than it treats non-persistent actors, but it takes so many shortcuts in faking their behavior while you are not around, that it even looks fake in-game. Clearly these actors are not loaded into memory. Like the teleporting actors, actors that move at unreasonably fast or slow rates, the actors that levitate or pick locks while you are gone, and all those actors who don't do anything until you enter the room, and then they suddenly start following their AI packages and idle animations.

 

So if your game lags because of NPCs, remove your mods that add extra NPC, remove things that cause graphical lag or other lag (Better Cities, Unique Landscapes, etc.) and turn your settings so low that the game becomes a real fright to look at.

 

The NPCs I have are stock NPCs and CM Partners. Reference used is IC Market Diswtrict with no NPC mods. I do not have Better Cities, Unique Landscapes, The only setting that helps with this problem is the actor distance. Setting it to 0 makes it great. As long as I don't get more than 3-4 NPCs in my field of view. Is there anyway to make them sort of... Retarded ? I swear they do nothing but walk around and it slows me down...

 

Things I think are weird : Much worse when I look at them... Don't thiink it could be texture replacers... I take Qarl without much difficulty... So it's really down to AI or scripts ? Any way to know if it could be a script messing with everything ?

Ain't as bad with creatures... Even in combat.

Makes me manage to lag more inside than outside...

It wasn't as bad on my last Oblivion install.

 

Also, not sure I got the "Persistent Actor" joke...

 

Also, if anyone cares, I opted against Setting core affinities. Made sound anomalies and caused stuttering. I still left the priority at high which seems to help. Played some more with OSR. Helped some more again. I still get to 15 FPS in the IC. I realised it wasn't that bad. The only thing that's bad are the combats...

[David Brasher]

To address your problem, maybe you could build a mod in which you disable all the NPCs which don't have important roles, which are in the IC Market District. Like you could keep the guards and shopkeepers and quest-related people, but disable everyone else. Your CM Partners mod will not be causing lag unless some recruitable NPCs are wandering the streets of the Market District, or partners are following you while you are in the Market District. Having partners causes lag. For best results, you will want to use 0-3 followers. If you have 6 or 8, you are going to have lag.

 

The persistent actor thing is a joke because Bethesda implies that those actors are persistent, but they are not, or to be more precise, not very. But it is sort of the opposite of your problem. The persistent actor problem is bad when you want to build a mod to have NPCs do things while you are not present. Your problem is that there are too many actors doing things, and it slows your game. So you can be glad that the actors who are not present are not actually taking up a lot of processing power.

[eric31415]

Most of the times i have heard of this problem, it was caused by hi-res NPC face replacers. You mention in your first post that you use one of these...

 

As for your question about RAEVWD, you can run city plugins, ayleid ruins, fort ruins, statues, large rocks, and ships without too bad of a hit in performance. The parts of it that add full LOD for the outlying cities, IC, and wilderness architecture are the real hogs here. The OMOD will let you install only what you want. But unfortunately, when also using AWLS, you will only be able too see the city lights from afar if you use full city LOD.