Is Yes Man the best thing for NCR and Legion as well?

[adman85]

That's true, not to mention that there are probably ghouls who consider themselves NCR members and/or rangers. (there might even be a supermutant ranger or two)

 

If given the choice of only these four ultimatums I guess I'd go with Mr House, or Yes Man, but mostly because the NCR/Legion war is so hypocritical. (I'm sorry but I find it just as hard to side with a group of dark ages psychopaths, than with a bunch of post apocalyptic cowboys)

 

I really felt a connection with the Followers of the Apocalypse's mentality, the only problem I could see with them, was their lack of assertiveness. They really would be taken advantage of by almost every other faction if they did somehow come into majority power.

 

Nonetheless, they were one of the few human made factions that I actually felt something for, (far beyond the, "wow, these guys are dicks" reaction I had from the rangers and the legion)

[ModelV]

Now all I need to do it make you see how anarchy is bad...

 

They are Ghouls in the NCR military(I think they are at station echo) and they are or were Super Mutants in the ranger ranks. There arent any in New Vegas but were there in Fallout 2 back when the Rangers were less attached to the NCR military.

 

The followers of the Apocolypse are a good bunch but there ideal world isnt quite possible. I believe its something on the lines of lawless socialism. Anyway the Core Region wouldnt have advanced like it did without them they even had a hand in the destruction of the Master but the Followers have become much more passive in the recent years it seems as before they were no strangers to espionage and military action when needed.

 

No back to my main point: Yes Man its a bad bet as paying attention to the end he takes control of New Vegas himself(think skynet). Also remember that you wouldnt be alive without Mr. House and really the Mojave would not be the Oasis it is without House so its rightfully his and youd have to be a really evil person to kill the man who saved your life.

 

 

And he did. While he admits he is unable to reliably control a securitron he still instructed Victor to save you. Just try making Victor help you with the powder gangers and see House's intervention. >.>

[adman85]

But if he hadn't of given you the platinum chip, there wouldn't have been a bullet in your head.

 

P.S. You'll probably have a hard time convincing me that anarchy is not the way.. I'm far too chaotic neutral for that. 8)

 

The skynet idea (while horrible) is still a great ending, if anything it would force some enemies into bed for the sake of a "common enemy", which could lead to a merging of ideologies, or even a new ideological approach to the situation.

 

I'm still not really convinced that Mr House is the best choice, yes he saved the city from nukes, yes he set up the strip after the war (which could easily be seen as simple self preservation).. But as was mentioned earlier, what has he done lately?

He cut off a whole section of the city, basically leaving them to fend for themselves (playing favorites while being elitist).

As opposed to using his robot army (or at least the technology) to prevent at least some human deaths in this war, not choosing a side and just sitting back and waiting for the war to go his way (while countless die under him), just seems like another form of tyranny.

And how much money has he skimmed out of both sides, let alone the "innocent" citizens. Surely by now he could have built a hospital or two, maybe some rad clinics or something.. But he stays in his ivory tower (probably doing some Scrooge Mcduck money swimming animations while no ones looking at the screen).

 

To be frank, he's almost as scary as skynet. He's basically a billionaire businessman from the 50's with more power than he knows what to do with, so he just sits on his power and bleeds it to those he considers friends (and what lovely friends too, like the Omertas, the Chairmen and the White Glove Society).. Yeah he'd be great as a leader, as long as you were on the "good" list.

Edited December 13, 2011 by adman85

[ModelV]

Ah yes of course Anarchy a situation of complete chaos where everyone can kill, rape and steal from you with no consequence other then by your own power is "cool". Im sure someone will tell you one day that murder suicide is "cool" aswell.

 

Back on topic:

 

Countless deaths under him? I really dont think your paying attention. The only people fighting are the NCR and Legion(and the fiends...and some other people but they dont matter.)

 

Lets see what has Mr. House done lately?

Restore a Dead city to nearly its pre-war glory inspring hope throughout the wasteland that this dark age will eventually end.

Form a treaty with the NCR preventing the Mojave from being swallowed up by the tyranny of the NCR.

Collect a massive amount of money which gone directly to hiring salvage teams and Couriers to reclaim the Platinum Chip which is the key to preventing the tyranny of the Legion and the NCR from claiming the mojave in the long run.

 

The Three Families are not House's friends they are his employees and he has given very little favor to them unless it help promote New Vegas's casinos and he hasnt been giving money to freeside or anyone else because again every single cap hes made has been used to retrieve that damn Chip. He doesnt have any money he doesnt care about money either except as a tool to achieve his goals in human society.

 

 

You cannot blame House for you getting shot you took the job you were just as aware of the dangers as House was(Neither of you knew about Benny's plot btw...). Benny shot you. Mr. House ordered Victor to dig you out of the ground.

 

 

Basically the entire story of New Vegas faction war backs down into this: Should I kill and steal from this guy? And if I do who should I give stuff to me or somebody else? New Vegas is Mr. House's city taking it from him means your no better then the people who killed the Native Americans or the people currently killing the Palestinians.(I should really just add this to my signature...)

[adman85]

But Benny is supposed to be Mr House's 2nd in charge.. Look at who he surrounds himself with.. "Very little favor" seems like an understatement when you look at the comparison in living conditions of a chairman to a freeside kid. He allows those who have helped him in some way live better than those who provide nothing to him. He's even stealing from the poor by advertising casinos and brothels all over the place.

 

And by countless deaths, I mean that his robots could take the place of soldiers on either side to literally save lives (seeing how they can self repair as well), he's lording his slightly superior tech over everyone to his own ends. Plus the friggen ghetto he created at his own doorstep.. But hey these people aren't his problem right? I mean, when he saved Vegas, I'm sure it was for the good of all around him, and not to save his own ass..

 

The "treaty" he signed was a pretty simple ploy really, the legion would never go for gambling and prostitution, so sell those things to the corrupt NCR and drain as much out of them as possible before deciding if he is going to go with or against them.

 

Hell at the end of the day, house has the power to turn his robots on anyone and everyone in sight..

 

But lets just put all our faith in him ey, he seems like a nice machine.

 

And really;

 

"Ah yes of course Anarchy a situation of complete chaos where everyone can kill, rape and steal from you with no consequence other then by your own power is "cool"."

 

Lost faith in humanity a little have we?

 

Or are you under the impression that if there's no figure head in charge neighbors will start raping and murdering each other?

 

(in either case, it doesn't really want to make me live anywhere near you pre or post apocalypse after that rant) :whistling:

 

"cough" not to mention the "wild west" went through some martial law phases there.. And i'm pretty sure there are still some Americans around.

 

 

I'm not defending anyone who chooses to bite off the hand that has sheltered and fed them, but I also don't want to back the chumps drinking the "special" coolaide without question because the boss thinks it for the best.

 

A self elected ruler.. A tyrant.

 

And he's the best choice?

 

My comparison should be, Do you support Mr House? if yes, then you must support Gaddafi and Suddam Hussein, because I can draw comparisons to their positions of power.

 

Not really a "fair" call to make.

Edited December 13, 2011 by adman85

[ModelV]

Benny isnt Mr. House's second in command hes the leader of the Chariman. Mr. House has no second in command and have you even played through the Mr. House plot line? Everything the Three Families have besides the electricity, Slot machines, uniforms, and paint on the walls of the casino they earned themselves through the 50% share of the profits of their Casino. The 50% Mr. House gets all goes to recovering the Platinum chip as its the top priority without it he cant keep the Legion and NCR from killing him and taking Vegas for long.

 

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And by countless deaths, I mean that his robots could take the place of soldiers on either side to literally save lives (seeing how they can self repair as well), he's lording his slightly superior tech over everyone to his own ends.

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Okay this is really one of the stupidest things I have ever heard in my life right behind this conversation: Turkish rep: "Its the fast fish not the big fish that eats the small first." American rep: "Well we're the big fish!".

 

Both the Legion and the NCR are Mr. House's enemies both want him dead why the hell would he give out some of his very limited supply of robots that cant auto-repair without the platinum chip not use most of there weapons to the people who want to kill him?

 

 

As for Freeside:

 

Hmmmm...lets see I can either A. Continue my plan of using 100% of my money to recover the platinum chip and security of New Vegas so I can keep making money to spend on recovering the platinum chip that will prevent the entire populous of Vegas from becoming slaves. Or I can B. spend money on making the citizens of Freeside's life better in the short term only to have it all violently taken away from them and have them thrown into slavery.

 

A is obviously the better option here.

 

 

As for the Treaty no that was him making sure I war wouldnt be started before he gained enough intel on his enemy and to achieve the means to get the Platinum chip back. And you obviously havent played through his quest line to see that the majority of his army cannot be activated without the platinum chip and he is limited to Id say 50 securitrons that cant even use half of their weapons.

 

 

As for Anarchy: People need Law either from a government or God and Anarchy is without both which basically means your screwed. People will do the most terrible things you can imagine if they think such an action will have no repercussions and there are still quite a bit who will do them no matter the repercussions. Ive spent 6 months around a real life vampiric cult and currently live in a very religious country where the government is scared of the people as it should be, Ive seen the worst and best of humanity in my lifetime.

[adman85]

Yes, 50% of their share goes to Mr House, or, I assume, the security bots will "escort" the freeloaders off the premises.. Once again money and control seems to be his key focus here.

 

Would you really believe in someone who would spend 100% of their money tracking down a device that grants them, and only them, complete control over a place where you may have had the misfortune to be born..

 

"Woops, look at them there robots.. Well I guess we know who's in charge now.. Thank the almighty! An unelected and supreme overlord to command us. And I guess if he doesn't turn out great, we can always just move... 'Cos you know, everything in a 50 mile radius BELONGS to Mr House now that his technology that he was keeping all to himself saved us, and we should all trust him and the decisions that he makes.. Even if it means that we all slowly die of starvation while he quests for the holy grail.

 

Who looks like a native American slaughterer now?

 

What level of ownership does Mr House have over vegas and its occupants now that he "saved" it?

 

And I think there's a difference between someone who actually wants to murder and steal from House, and someone who wants to see the dictator removed from power.

 

As a sidenote;

 

People also do some of the most amazing things in dire circumstances. Some of the most notable political mentalities and philosophical quotes were made in times of darkness and despair.

 

A more humble example would be my fathers grandfather. During the depression, while people were starving to death and killing themselves, this man, as opposed to taking advantage of a horrible situation, used his fishing boat (his business) to freely provide fish that he had caught to anyone and everyone who asked.

 

A simple example, but, I think it goes to show that not everyone turns into a gibbering rapist when they lose faith in god and government.

 

The opposite would appear truer in a lot of cases.. A loss of faith in one thing can lead to new faith, even stronger faith.

 

You might see this as me giving the thumbs up to the dark ages, or martial law, or even rape and torture if you want. But all i'm getting at is that if we really took all we could learn from history (and by history I mean reading between the lines of nationally biased texts for a sense of "truth"), humans as a collective community (not separate factions, nations and sub nations) could exist, without turning into a cult or mobsters etc etc.

 

You know, like a real democracy.

Edited December 13, 2011 by adman85

[marharth]

Some people are good and will help others even without law. Hate to break it to you but that is a minority. When you have 20 percent of the population who believes in peace and helping others, and the rest believing in doing what is best for them, you can guess what will happen.

 

Why are you assuming Mr. House is evil? What is his use for money? He has no need for money. He is a f***ing stationary computer for the most part. His entire life he has lived off the idea of logic and science, why would he reverse that for no reason? He wants to advance humanity, not help himself.

 

 

Democracy is worse then a dictatorship if you have a good dictator.

[ModelV]

Right now Freeside is left to fend for themselves because House cannot help them. As soon as he gets the chip and the dam thats gonna change. Seriously he cannot help them right now if he does he is just dooming them into slavery later when the Legion or NCR kills him and takes Vegas. And like Marharth said he has no need for money. Check Yes Man's report of his financial records, almost 1 million caps were used in the last year alone to recover the platinum chip.

 

 

And the depression was no where near an example of Anarchy. There was still law there was just no money.

Edited December 14, 2011 by ModelV

[adman85]

Guys.. Check your history here, in most case the "law" just turned a blind eye, while people died from various horrible ends. The "law" protected the politicians and the rich.. Not the people.. There was complete lawlessness for the previously low class and low income.. That means there was no feeling of repercussion for any acts committed because the police (in the majority) did not care.. They were elsewhere getting paid to keep department stores from getting looted, or in other cases suffering the effects with the rest of the poor and starving.

 

And @ marharth

 

So why do you assume House is good? I'm pretty sure if you don't do what Mr House wants, he threatens and then tries to kill you.

 

And dictatorship can be better than democracy huh?

 

As long as he's a good dictator?.................................................................. :facepalm:

 

Dictators by definition, put themself in power, through political sway or military coup.

 

They inherently hold ultimate power over the RSAs, ISAs and even the citizens.

 

Not to mention that they are never bound by the laws they make or enforce. So, he can literally do whatever he wants.. (and obviously he wants to find that holy grail.. I mean platinum chip to secure his local domination.. uh I mean, for the good of they people....

 

So he's basically skynet with a nice human face... He might not necessarily be doing anything evil right now.. (which I believe he is) But it is fully within his power to kill whoever he wants, whenever he wants, with no consequences as he is in control of all RSA's

 

But seriously?

 

"Democracy is worse then a dictatorship if you have a good dictator."

 

What's better about it?

 

The fact that you have literally no choice as to how you will live (or IF you will live at all)?

 

or is it because it means you won't have to care or worry about your neighbor doing ANYTHING considered unlawful.. That includes some awesome laws from history (check out the Code of Hammurabi for some glimpses of the cracks in "divine" rulers, or more recently have a look at the laws under the rule of Saddam Hussein in Iraq)

 

Or do you just think it's better because of bad examples you have seen from history that included poorly educated masses during and after a revolution (poorly educated usually due to the dictator's or divine ruler's laws that they removed from power). Revolutions that were in the most case led by the military only AFTER they turned on their leader, which is usually only due outside manipulation, and in most cases is just another coup to install a new dictatorship.

 

Where exactly did you get that percentage from?

 

Or are you considering all of this from the eyes of capitalist consumerism, where you are supposed to cut your neighbors financial throats to make something of yourself?

 

Because in fallout that has been removed.. even if the industrial revolution did happen, or was in the process of happening before the war, it's effects are only seen in one place.. In Mr Houses factory and on the strip.. He's the only real consumerist in the game, everyone else is more like a gangster or is based off a bartering community or tribal mentality. So the only place where people are MORE likely to take advantage of each other, is in a system where they are only rewarded to do so.

 

Martial Law; You come into an established community (tribe, barterers etc) and steal food and water, suddenly you have a large group of pissed off people deciding what kind of punishment you will recieve.

 

Mr House's Dictatorship; You walk into an established community, and, as long as you are within the framework of a legal system (devised by a guy on the other side of the country), you can buy up all the land from under them, force them out of their homes with the threat of military action, and turn their living quarters into a stripclub. And not only would it be legal, it would be smiled upon by Mr House. Basically condoning the mistreatment of others.