Is Yes Man the best thing for NCR and Legion as well?

[marharth]

Guys.. Check your history here, in most case the "law" just turned a blind eye, while people died from various horrible ends. The "law" protected the politicians and the rich.. Not the people.. There was complete lawlessness for the previously low class and low income.. That means there was no feeling of repercussion for any acts committed because the police (in the majority) did not care.. They were elsewhere getting paid to keep department stores from getting looted, or in other cases suffering the effects with the rest of the poor and starving.

 

And @ marharth

 

So why do you assume House is good? I'm pretty sure if you don't do what Mr House wants, he threatens and then tries to kill you.

 

And dictatorship can be better than democracy huh?

 

As long as he's a good dictator?.................................................................. :facepalm:

 

Dictators by definition, put themself in power, through political sway or military coup.

 

They inherently hold ultimate power over the RSAs, ISAs and even the citizens.

 

Not to mention that they are never bound by the laws they make or enforce. So, he can literally do whatever he wants.. (and obviously he wants to find that holy grail.. I mean platinum chip to secure his local domination.. uh I mean, for the good of they people....

 

So he's basically skynet with a nice human face... He might not necessarily be doing anything evil right now.. (which I believe he is) But it is fully within his power to kill whoever he wants, whenever he wants, with no consequences as he is in control of all RSA's

 

But seriously?

 

"Democracy is worse then a dictatorship if you have a good dictator."

 

What's better about it?

 

The fact that you have literally no choice as to how you will live (or IF you will live at all)?

 

or is it because it means you won't have to care or worry about your neighbor doing ANYTHING considered unlawful.. That includes some awesome laws from history (check out the Code of Hammurabi for some glimpses of the cracks in "divine" rulers, or more recently have a look at the laws under the rule of Saddam Hussein in Iraq)

 

Or do you just think it's better because of bad examples you have seen from history that included poorly educated masses during and after a revolution (poorly educated usually due to the dictator's or divine ruler's laws that they removed from power). Revolutions that were in the most case led by the military only AFTER they turned on their leader, which is usually only due outside manipulation, and in most cases is just another coup to install a new dictatorship.

 

Where exactly did you get that percentage from?

 

Or are you considering all of this from the eyes of capitalist consumerism, where you are supposed to cut your neighbors financial throats to make something of yourself?

 

Because in fallout that has been removed.. even if the industrial revolution did happen, or was in the process of happening before the war, it's effects are only seen in one place.. In Mr Houses factory and on the strip.. He's the only real consumerist in the game, everyone else is more like a gangster or is based off a bartering community or tribal mentality. So the only place where people are MORE likely to take advantage of each other, is in a system where they are only rewarded to do so.

 

Martial Law; You come into an established community (tribe, barterers etc) and steal food and water, suddenly you have a large group of pissed off people deciding what kind of punishment you will recieve.

 

Mr House's Dictatorship; You walk into an established community, and, as long as you are within the framework of a legal system (devised by a guy on the other side of the country), you can buy up all the land from under them, force them out of their homes with the threat of military action, and turn their living quarters into a stripclub. And not only would it be legal, it would be smiled upon by Mr House. Basically condoning the mistreatment of others.

dude what

 

Come back to me when real history has a immortal computer dictator that runs entirely off logic and does not care for personal gain.

 

You are assuming because he is in nearly complete power he is instantly evil which is incorrect. Can you quote where Mr. House threatens you?

 

Mr. House lives by his own code, logic. He has no reason to randomly betray that and become corrupt. Why do you think a piece of paper has more power over what leaders can do?

 

Also your last statement is extremely incorrect. You are thinking of the NCR. Mr. House is not like that, the NCR is. Do you have any evidence that Mr. House would have a legal system like that? How many times do I have to tell you Mr. House does not care about money?

 

To get this straight, you are seriously saying that anarchy could work? You think it is not rewarding for someone to kill people and take their stuff?

Edited December 14, 2011 by marharth

[adman85]

.... :wallbash:

 

I'm actually sick of repeating myself..

 

Yeah, obviously we have not had a robot dictator yet..

 

Good to see that if we do it'll at least have two loyal subordinates, as long as it wears a nice mustache and is slick with words..

 

Mr House is literally a rich business man from the 50s... He was the founder of the Robco industry.. If I remember correctly there were several missions where you visit a robco factory only to find that the workers have been murdered by the robots replacing them...

 

Gee I wonder who was in charge when that happened?

 

Also Mr House lives by a set of laws.. Whether he realises it or not.. (like, nobody is allowed on the strip unless they are NCR or they pay large sums of money.. Bam, an enforced law.. One that works to segregate the poor from the rich).. Laws that are based around his capitalist consumerist mentality.. And considering these were the people in charge when the war happened.. Is it really a good idea to give absolute power directly back into the hands of someone with that mindset?

 

Power corrupts.. Absolute power corrupts absolutely..

 

I don't give a crap if he has his brain in a robot.. He is still subject to these simple facts.

 

And what with this idea that I support some permanent state of Anarchy?

 

My personal preference in a GAME like FALLOUT, is an anarchic, martial law driven, wasteland. Hell it makes for a fun game.

 

And how exactly do you think half the "good guy" communities in the fallout games came to be? Some self declared leader telling everyone what to do and how to live their lives? (some do have that, like the republic of Dave, or tenpenny towers, which are just beacons of awesomeness right.. (sarcasm)

 

Communities like megaton and rivet city were a group of democratically acting people working together for the good of each other, and for a future..

 

Do you really think that it would be as simple as, oh there's a community, I'll just waltz in and take what I need and just rape whoever gets in my way and there'll be no consequences at all? (You obviously never tried to raid rivet city in fallout 3, or any freaking community in new vegas, If you do something wrong, you are basically blacklisted and in some cases are shot on sight)

 

I'm sure your name would be on every poster in a 10 mile radius until you had been hunted down by pissed off citizens or posses of bounty hunters.

 

And it seems like you are trying to imply that these kinds of acts aren't being committed right under houses nose.. How many people have gone missing from the White Glove Societies casino? Assumedly to be murdered then eaten.. how many people have the Chairmen strong armed then had killed? And these are the groups Mr House decided were good enough to hang around inside the safety of New Vegas' walls..

 

That's real promising.. Considering he DOESN'T have the chip yet.. But I'm sure he'll make it all better when he basically becomes an unchallengeable god.. Who as we have established is immortal..

 

Cool, so, permanent divine right ruler ship, under a 50's style business man..

 

Because obviously he became rich before the war by caring about those around him and not being a cutthroat businessman..

 

I know.. How good is it that he saved himself.. I mean.. All of vegas.. With those missiles that he kept all to himself, while the government in charge were on the precipice of war.. Withholding potentially catastrophe averting technology from his own country? That could be seen as a traitorous act through the eyes of some.

 

But i guess it's just convenient that he saved just enough people to install a system where he could be in charge.. And then, oh no, turns out there are a lot more survivors than expected (legion and NCR showing up), suddenly his focus shifts to obtaining an object that gives him the supreme position of power over all again.

 

If logic is his main concern wouldn't he be at least working on some more diplomatic approaches? Or strengthening relations with his "allies" at the time..

 

Or doesn't he have any allies?

 

So far it seems like everyone is trying to kill him.. Even those he trusts to "sit at his table"..

 

But I guess everyone is just a raving lunatic who wants to murder him, take his home and crap in all his hats..

 

And I'm quite sure that at the very least, you get subtle warnings from Victor (directly commanded by House), if it seems like you won't do as House asked.

 

Look Henry Ford was an amazing capitalist, who created ways to mass produce products to sell to the masses. He was a genius in his industry.. But I would cut off my own hands before I let him run my country, as I understand that he was a business man, who at his core cared only about furthering his company, no matter the cost to the thousands of workers under him.. And with no connection to the millions who purchased his products other than for the purpose of re-selling to them later.

 

Does it seem logical to put literally all of your resources into obtaining an almost mythical object that you only have the slimmest chance of ever obtaining, and in all likelyhood, someone would steal this artifact and use it to end you, and possibly all around you.

 

If it hadn't been for the courier. Benny would be running things.. Mr House screwed up bigtime.. His logic is faulty.. And his mentality is backwards.. (doesn't he also consider everyone outside of the strip as drooling mongoloids who need to be shown what to do? Thats pretty awesome, what great concern he has for his fellow man..)

 

I guess i must just be imagining these connotations though.. I must just be one of those annoying types who refuses to be ruled over by a robot who controls an army of killbots... Better put me in the gas chamber before i corrupt others into thinking such unpatriotic thoughts..

[minngarm]

.... :wallbash:

 

I'm actually sick of repeating myself..

 

Yeah, obviously we have not had a robot dictator yet..

 

Good to see that if we do it'll at least have two loyal subordinates, as long as it wears a nice mustache and is slick with words..

 

Mr House is literally a rich business man from the 50s... He was the founder of the Robco industry.. If I remember correctly there were several missions where you visit a robco factory only to find that the workers have been murdered by the robots replacing them...

 

Gee I wonder who was in charge when that happened?

 

Also Mr House lives by a set of laws.. Whether he realises it or not.. (like, nobody is allowed on the strip unless they are NCR or they pay large sums of money.. Bam, an enforced law.. One that works to segregate the poor from the rich).. Laws that are based around his capitalist consumerist mentality.. And considering these were the people in charge when the war happened.. Is it really a good idea to give absolute power directly back into the hands of someone with that mindset?

 

Power corrupts.. Absolute power corrupts absolutely..

 

I don't give a crap if he has his brain in a robot.. He is still subject to these simple facts.

 

And what with this idea that I support some permanent state of Anarchy?

 

My personal preference in a GAME like FALLOUT, is an anarchic, martial law driven, wasteland. Hell it makes for a fun game.

 

And how exactly do you think half the "good guy" communities in the fallout games came to be? Some self declared leader telling everyone what to do and how to live their lives? (some do have that, like the republic of Dave, or tenpenny towers, which are just beacons of awesomeness right.. (sarcasm)

 

Communities like megaton and rivet city were a group of democratically acting people working together for the good of each other, and for a future..

 

Do you really think that it would be as simple as, oh there's a community, I'll just waltz in and take what I need and just rape whoever gets in my way and there'll be no consequences at all? (You obviously never tried to raid rivet city in fallout 3, or any freaking community in new vegas, If you do something wrong, you are basically blacklisted and in some cases are shot on sight)

 

I'm sure your name would be on every poster in a 10 mile radius until you had been hunted down by pissed off citizens or posses of bounty hunters.

 

And it seems like you are trying to imply that these kinds of acts aren't being committed right under houses nose.. How many people have gone missing from the White Glove Societies casino? Assumedly to be murdered then eaten.. how many people have the Chairmen strong armed then had killed? And these are the groups Mr House decided were good enough to hang around inside the safety of New Vegas' walls..

 

That's real promising.. Considering he DOESN'T have the chip yet.. But I'm sure he'll make it all better when he basically becomes an unchallengeable god.. Who as we have established is immortal..

 

Cool, so, permanent divine right ruler ship, under a 50's style business man..

 

Because obviously he became rich before the war by caring about those around him and not being a cutthroat businessman..

 

I know.. How good is it that he saved himself.. I mean.. All of vegas.. With those missiles that he kept all to himself, while the government in charge were on the precipice of war.. Withholding potentially catastrophe averting technology from his own country? That could be seen as a traitorous act through the eyes of some.

 

But i guess it's just convenient that he saved just enough people to install a system where he could be in charge.. And then, oh no, turns out there are a lot more survivors than expected (legion and NCR showing up), suddenly his focus shifts to obtaining an object that gives him the supreme position of power over all again.

 

If logic is his main concern wouldn't he be at least working on some more diplomatic approaches? Or strengthening relations with his "allies" at the time..

 

Or doesn't he have any allies?

 

So far it seems like everyone is trying to kill him.. Even those he trusts to "sit at his table"..

 

But I guess everyone is just a raving lunatic who wants to murder him, take his home and crap in all his hats..

 

And I'm quite sure that at the very least, you get subtle warnings from Victor (directly commanded by House), if it seems like you won't do as House asked.

 

Look Henry Ford was an amazing capitalist, who created ways to mass produce products to sell to the masses. He was a genius in his industry.. But I would cut off my own hands before I let him run my country, as I understand that he was a business man, who at his core cared only about furthering his company, no matter the cost to the thousands of workers under him.. And with no connection to the millions who purchased his products other than for the purpose of re-selling to them later.

 

Does it seem logical to put literally all of your resources into obtaining an almost mythical object that you only have the slimmest chance of ever obtaining, and in all likelyhood, someone would steal this artifact and use it to end you, and possibly all around you.

 

If it hadn't been for the courier. Benny would be running things.. Mr House screwed up bigtime.. His logic is faulty.. And his mentality is backwards.. (doesn't he also consider everyone outside of the strip as drooling mongoloids who need to be shown what to do? Thats pretty awesome, what great concern he has for his fellow man..)

 

I guess i must just be imagining these connotations though.. I must just be one of those annoying types who refuses to be ruled over by a robot who controls an army of killbots... Better put me in the gas chamber before i corrupt others into thinking such unpatriotic thoughts..

 

 

Nice to see someone that gets it.

[EnclaveCommando]

Lol this is why i love fallout, only problem is everyone thinks in black and white when the whole game is based on the grey area. There isnt any good or bad in fallout, its about survival and doing what needs to be done. All the factions have their faults, and its up to the player to pick one that seems to fit him or her best lol. Obviously by my name you know which one i picked rofl, also most of these questions and statements are answered at the End of Lonesome Road. Because Ulysses has seen them both for what they are and how they will all end (A beautifuly crafted DLC and best of the selection)

[marharth]

.... :wallbash:

 

I'm actually sick of repeating myself..

 

Yeah, obviously we have not had a robot dictator yet..

 

Good to see that if we do it'll at least have two loyal subordinates, as long as it wears a nice mustache and is slick with words..

 

Mr House is literally a rich business man from the 50s... He was the founder of the Robco industry.. If I remember correctly there were several missions where you visit a robco factory only to find that the workers have been murdered by the robots replacing them...

 

Gee I wonder who was in charge when that happened?

 

Also Mr House lives by a set of laws.. Whether he realises it or not.. (like, nobody is allowed on the strip unless they are NCR or they pay large sums of money.. Bam, an enforced law.. One that works to segregate the poor from the rich).. Laws that are based around his capitalist consumerist mentality.. And considering these were the people in charge when the war happened.. Is it really a good idea to give absolute power directly back into the hands of someone with that mindset?

 

Power corrupts.. Absolute power corrupts absolutely..

 

I don't give a crap if he has his brain in a robot.. He is still subject to these simple facts.

 

And what with this idea that I support some permanent state of Anarchy?

 

My personal preference in a GAME like FALLOUT, is an anarchic, martial law driven, wasteland. Hell it makes for a fun game.

 

And how exactly do you think half the "good guy" communities in the fallout games came to be? Some self declared leader telling everyone what to do and how to live their lives? (some do have that, like the republic of Dave, or tenpenny towers, which are just beacons of awesomeness right.. (sarcasm)

 

Communities like megaton and rivet city were a group of democratically acting people working together for the good of each other, and for a future..

 

Do you really think that it would be as simple as, oh there's a community, I'll just waltz in and take what I need and just rape whoever gets in my way and there'll be no consequences at all? (You obviously never tried to raid rivet city in fallout 3, or any freaking community in new vegas, If you do something wrong, you are basically blacklisted and in some cases are shot on sight)

 

I'm sure your name would be on every poster in a 10 mile radius until you had been hunted down by pissed off citizens or posses of bounty hunters.

 

And it seems like you are trying to imply that these kinds of acts aren't being committed right under houses nose.. How many people have gone missing from the White Glove Societies casino? Assumedly to be murdered then eaten.. how many people have the Chairmen strong armed then had killed? And these are the groups Mr House decided were good enough to hang around inside the safety of New Vegas' walls..

 

That's real promising.. Considering he DOESN'T have the chip yet.. But I'm sure he'll make it all better when he basically becomes an unchallengeable god.. Who as we have established is immortal..

 

Cool, so, permanent divine right ruler ship, under a 50's style business man..

 

Because obviously he became rich before the war by caring about those around him and not being a cutthroat businessman..

 

I know.. How good is it that he saved himself.. I mean.. All of vegas.. With those missiles that he kept all to himself, while the government in charge were on the precipice of war.. Withholding potentially catastrophe averting technology from his own country? That could be seen as a traitorous act through the eyes of some.

 

But i guess it's just convenient that he saved just enough people to install a system where he could be in charge.. And then, oh no, turns out there are a lot more survivors than expected (legion and NCR showing up), suddenly his focus shifts to obtaining an object that gives him the supreme position of power over all again.

 

If logic is his main concern wouldn't he be at least working on some more diplomatic approaches? Or strengthening relations with his "allies" at the time..

 

Or doesn't he have any allies?

 

So far it seems like everyone is trying to kill him.. Even those he trusts to "sit at his table"..

 

But I guess everyone is just a raving lunatic who wants to murder him, take his home and crap in all his hats..

 

And I'm quite sure that at the very least, you get subtle warnings from Victor (directly commanded by House), if it seems like you won't do as House asked.

 

Look Henry Ford was an amazing capitalist, who created ways to mass produce products to sell to the masses. He was a genius in his industry.. But I would cut off my own hands before I let him run my country, as I understand that he was a business man, who at his core cared only about furthering his company, no matter the cost to the thousands of workers under him.. And with no connection to the millions who purchased his products other than for the purpose of re-selling to them later.

 

Does it seem logical to put literally all of your resources into obtaining an almost mythical object that you only have the slimmest chance of ever obtaining, and in all likelyhood, someone would steal this artifact and use it to end you, and possibly all around you.

 

If it hadn't been for the courier. Benny would be running things.. Mr House screwed up bigtime.. His logic is faulty.. And his mentality is backwards.. (doesn't he also consider everyone outside of the strip as drooling mongoloids who need to be shown what to do? Thats pretty awesome, what great concern he has for his fellow man..)

 

I guess i must just be imagining these connotations though.. I must just be one of those annoying types who refuses to be ruled over by a robot who controls an army of killbots... Better put me in the gas chamber before i corrupt others into thinking such unpatriotic thoughts..

Mr. House does not control the casinos.

 

The chip was created by Mr. House and he knows exactly where it was, if you think it is a magic item that had a rare chance of be obtained I don't think you even did the quest line. Also if you did the quest line you should know that the three groups controlling the casinos were previously tribes. If Mr. House did not bring them under his control there would have been a lot more deaths then the ones happening in the casinos.

 

The reason you have to have a credit check is so he doesn't have a bunch of people in the strip for no reason. I see no problem with that. If you don't have a passport or the proper amount of money what are you doing on the strip?

 

Also are you saying Mr. House should of given his tech to the country? Are you even slightly aware of fallout lore? The country was completely under control by a little group known as the f***ing enclave. It would be genius to give a bunch of high tech stuff to them right?

 

It is not logical to get stronger ties with your "allies" when you know they hate you and are planning to take control of your land.

 

Mr. House already knew about the courier. You were part of his plan. That is not something he screwed up on. Without the courier Benny would have never got the chip either because you would have never been shot.

 

As a businessmen in his normal life he got rich. He knew ahead of time there would be a nuclear apocalypse. You need a lot of money to fund what he did, and you should know that you don't get a lot of money by being nice.

 

How is it factual that absolute power corrupts? A cliche philosophical quote is not fact. Power corrupts because of personal gain, and once again Mr. House has no need for personal gain. He is a nearly completely stationary robot man. He has no need for money, he doesn't need to spend it on vices or food, or any other normal human need.

 

The whole freeside argument is just stupid really. Even if Mr. House wanted to help freeside all of the kings wouldn't want it. You are aware at the ending when Mr. House wants to take control of freeside, the kings fight him and end up all dying?

 

Even if Mr. House isn't good, he is far better then any other choice. The NCR is completely corrupt off money, far more then Mr. House could ever be. They don't care about their citizens especially if a place as far away as Vegas. The legion is a group of slavers and have a lot of restrictions on personal freedom.

 

Mr. House has a nearly perfect balance of order and freedom. He allows citizens to do whatever they want with themselves (drugs, spending money on whatever) and he still keeps control of all of the people, unlike the NCR.

 

That and Mr. House is the only one who wants to advance humanity. The NCR runs off money, the legion runs off the idea of complete control.

[adman85]

Wow.. So you admit that he get a little genocidal, and murders off a race of people when they don't leave "his" land? (the kings)

 

What makes Vegas his exactly?

 

If I save a baby.. Do I then own that baby and all its future?

 

Does all (or 50% lets be fair right) of that babies life and future earnings then belong to me?

 

Hell if that baby has kids later on then I should own at LEAST 25% of each of them too right? :huh:

 

He doesn't "own" anything.. He took it.. Just like Benny was going to take it from him. (thats another argument right there.. Flash forward 20 years if benny got in charge miraculously, say that he did some "good" things for the people at some "bad" costs.. Taking from him is like slaughtering the native Americans (who themselves totally believe that America is "all theirs", and that not one spec of it belongs to everybody.. That's why those bastard never tried signing treaties right? SARCASM)

 

And no need for money? No he had no NEED for money becoming a business man, then developing life saving technology, then putting himself in a robot, then finding a chip.. [More sarcasm] (which if he knew exactly where it was and how to get it with his superior logic.. How exactly did it end up in Benny's hands?.. Or didn't he plan that the people that "hate" him, who also coincidentally he GAVE POWER TO, might try to betray him)

 

What comes after the chip?

 

Money to advance humankind?

 

Money to travel to space?

 

I don't literally have a NEED for money, it provides no actual sustenance, and in reality it might make good toilet paper or kindling..

 

I am however, in a situation where money is the staple to almost everything.. The same situation that Mr House is in now.. And in that sense, society has created money as a new "need".. Do you think he won't be using the monetary system after he gets the chip?

 

You really think getting ultimate god power is going to change his perspective?

 

Or do you like him like this?

 

Despite what you think about humanity, and your personal belief of "What everyone's gonna do when..." I believe that allowing an immortal dictator access to an army of unfeeling killing machines is a REALLY bad idea. (see where I'm getting the skynet connection here?)

 

"Mr. House already knew about the courier. You were part of his plan. That is not something he screwed up on. Without the courier Benny would have never got the chip either because you would have never been shot."

 

Hahahahhhahhahahhhahah... Except for maybe the NEXT COURIER IN LINE.. You know, soft skulled Jimmy, the guy who wouldn't have survived a bullet to the head, then hunted down and taken back his possession which doesn't actually BELONG to him.. And why the hell doesn't the chip belong to the courier? (after he TAKES it from Benny that is) Mr House's idea to send six different dudes on highly dangerous missions seems to have failed to me.. The COURIER is the one who furthers all the action.. If you play the "good guy" role, you pretty much spoon feed all the factions.. In fact this courier (if played like a "good guy") actually seems like a better choice for leadership.. (Not on my playthrough though)

 

"How is it factual that absolute power corrupts? A cliche philosophical quote is not fact."

 

Hmmm.. Good idea, Ignore warnings from past societies.. I love history repeating.

 

 

And thanks for the support Minnigarm.. I was starting to think I was the only one who noticed that House IS a dictator by definition. :dance:

 

I can also agree with EnclaveCommando's sentiments..

 

It is about the grey between what one considers good and evil.. Like the eternal attempt at differentiating a freedom fighter from a terrorist.. (from one side the former always seems like the latter and vice versa)

Edited December 15, 2011 by adman85

[ModelV]

Right. Your an anarchic sociopath who cannot grasp the concept of ownership and that you can just steal from other people because they do not truly own it, you also dont believe in the monetary system, and you have offended me by insulting my people and attempting to justify them getting slaughtered.

 

Im done here. Marharth and I have said everything that can be said about this and the previous paragraph shows your on my list of people who I refuse to have a discussion with.

Edited December 15, 2011 by ModelV

[adman85]

"youve insulted my people and attempted to justify them getting slaughtered."

 

i assume this was the comment you meant?

 

"who themselves (Native Americans) totally believe that America is "all theirs", and that not one spec of it belongs to everybody.. That's why those bastard never tried signing treaties right? SARCASM"

 

You see the sarcasm remark at the end? That denotes a joke. I will admit it was a poorly executed joke, and that making jokes about horrible events in history is short sighted and rude, and I apologise for that. The joke itself however is an insult to the attitude of invading or "colonising" forces, not the reverse.. I have to stress this to you. I have the utmost respect for the majority of "tribal" civilisations. I also massively disagree with the way Australia was "colonised", and I take every attempt to sway people from the belief that wiping out and or removing a group of people from an area does not make it yours. Just as I claim no more ownership of this land as any other (Including Aboriginals who claim that the land is rightfully "theirs" because of their heritage). Our history and placement in this world is never our choice, we are born somewhere and we die somewhere and we make actions in between.

 

If someone(s) came into "my" house (by that I mean the place that I sleep, eat and live) with the intent to attack me or anyone living with or around me, I would defend myself, and them. If I had the technology to see this coming and prevent even an initial reaction, I would probably use it, for the sake of myself and those around me. But I would never hide it from those around me, or ever use it to manipulate them.

 

And I am not an anarchic sociopath, repeatedly I have stressed my belief in humans. (Just not all of them, but who can?)

 

I believe in respect for each other and our environment, I have quite a solid faith in science (though it is shaky at times) but I also do believe in a power that is greater than all of us, (or is all of us? i dunno, jeez, bag my religion or lackthereof why don't you).

 

Another stranger thing that I believe is that death is not something to be feared, as whatever is beyond, we have been there before. Just think back to before you were the conjunction of a sperm and an egg.

 

Please don't just take the attitude that I am just a certain way in my life from a comment in a political discussion about a quite insane game.

 

Perhaps if the question were different we would agree?

Edited December 15, 2011 by adman85

[marharth]

Wow.. So you admit that he get a little genocidal, and murders off a race of people when they don't leave "his" land? (the kings)

 

What makes Vegas his exactly?

 

If I save a baby.. Do I then own that baby and all its future?

 

Does all (or 50% lets be fair right) of that babies life and future earnings then belong to me?

 

Hell if that baby has kids later on then I should own at LEAST 25% of each of them too right? :huh:

 

He doesn't "own" anything.. He took it.. Just like Benny was going to take it from him. (thats another argument right there.. Flash forward 20 years if benny got in charge miraculously, say that he did some "good" things for the people at some "bad" costs.. Taking from him is like slaughtering the native Americans (who themselves totally believe that America is "all theirs", and that not one spec of it belongs to everybody.. That's why those bastard never tried signing treaties right? SARCASM)

 

And no need for money? No he had no NEED for money becoming a business man, then developing life saving technology, then putting himself in a robot, then finding a chip.. [More sarcasm] (which if he knew exactly where it was and how to get it with his superior logic.. How exactly did it end up in Benny's hands?.. Or didn't he plan that the people that "hate" him, who also coincidentally he GAVE POWER TO, might try to betray him)

 

What comes after the chip?

 

Money to advance humankind?

 

Money to travel to space?

 

I don't literally have a NEED for money, it provides no actual sustenance, and in reality it might make good toilet paper or kindling..

 

I am however, in a situation where money is the staple to almost everything.. The same situation that Mr House is in now.. And in that sense, society has created money as a new "need".. Do you think he won't be using the monetary system after he gets the chip?

 

You really think getting ultimate god power is going to change his perspective?

 

Or do you like him like this?

 

Despite what you think about humanity, and your personal belief of "What everyone's gonna do when..." I believe that allowing an immortal dictator access to an army of unfeeling killing machines is a REALLY bad idea. (see where I'm getting the skynet connection here?)

 

"Mr. House already knew about the courier. You were part of his plan. That is not something he screwed up on. Without the courier Benny would have never got the chip either because you would have never been shot."

 

Hahahahhhahhahahhhahah... Except for maybe the NEXT COURIER IN LINE.. You know, soft skulled Jimmy, the guy who wouldn't have survived a bullet to the head, then hunted down and taken back his possession which doesn't actually BELONG to him.. And why the hell doesn't the chip belong to the courier? (after he TAKES it from Benny that is) Mr House's idea to send six different dudes on highly dangerous missions seems to have failed to me.. The COURIER is the one who furthers all the action.. If you play the "good guy" role, you pretty much spoon feed all the factions.. In fact this courier (if played like a "good guy") actually seems like a better choice for leadership.. (Not on my playthrough though)

 

"How is it factual that absolute power corrupts? A cliche philosophical quote is not fact."

 

Hmmm.. Good idea, Ignore warnings from past societies.. I love history repeating.

 

 

And thanks for the support Minnigarm.. I was starting to think I was the only one who noticed that House IS a dictator by definition. :dance:

 

I can also agree with EnclaveCommando's sentiments..

 

It is about the grey between what one considers good and evil.. Like the eternal attempt at differentiating a freedom fighter from a terrorist.. (from one side the former always seems like the latter and vice versa)

The kings did not want to give up their power and got destroyed because of it. They were a simple street gang who thought they should stay in complete power over freeside despite in being in worse conditions then the strip. You are aware that the NCR also wipes out the kings if you side with them right?

 

Mr. House saved Vegas and all of the surrounding areas. He already had a lot of ownership before the nukes. Are you suggesting that Mr. House is not the rightful owner of Vegas when he not only saved it from complete destruction, but he already owned part of it beforehand?

 

The problem you have with the courier argument is that Mr. House already knew he was being betrayed. If another courier was shot he would have had another plan.

 

Are you saying that Mr. House is doing everything he does for personal gain? Please look at his death. It should be obvious he does not care about personal gain.

 

Why do you keep saying he found the chip? Did you even glance at Mr. Houses story? He CREATED the chip. He knows exactly where it is.

 

Once again, you can not compare a immortal robotic man who does not care about personal gain to previous dictators.

 

Mr. House will use money in his government. He won't allow corruption with money, which is what you mentioned. There is a huge difference between having something of a capitalist system and allowing money to corrupt within your system.

[ModelV]

As soon as I saw the offensive comment I stopped reading. Thats not the kind of joke you should be making.

 

Youre an Anarchist there is not arguing that and you have many anti-social attributes such the amount of personal information youve given away and the fact that your public post and your private message have 2 different tones shows that you behave differently in public and in private out of pride. However, you also show many signs(Strong devotion to science, atheist yet superstitious, being an anarchist, unrealistic faith in humanity ) that show your a victim of a very long running propaganda campaign thats been going on far longer then youve been alive. The brainwashing also generates artificial anti-social attributes. Your questioning the validity of such a statement, going on the same lines as the questions Doc mitchel asks you look at these statements and see how much they seem like something youd say:

 

1. Woman should not be in the army and belong at home cooking and cleaning and pleasing their husband like God made it.

 

2. Homosexual marriage is an abomination.

 

3. The government has your best interests at heart.

 

 

And dont get mad at me for the text in the test until youve seen my answers.

 

I accept your apology and will continue this debate on some conditions: Dont joke like that again, maintain a level of civility, and dont talk about things you no nothing about(Such as Mr. House's quest line that you havent played.). This is all I ask. Anyway I accept your apology now back to the topic at hand:

 

Why the Mojave and Vegas Mr. House's land? Well for one hes lived there longer then anyone else and without his anti-missile defense system Vegas would not be standing and the Mojave would not be the Oasis it is. This Ive already said but continuing Mr. House also rebuilt New Vegas and the 3 Families accepted his leadership. Mr. House gets 50% of the earnings of the Casinos because thats the deal that was made between him and the 3 families. They get medical care, assistance in security, and not to mention their own casino in exchange for 50% of the earnings they make off the casino. Mr. House's level of freedom among the people is exponentially greater then the other options and hes proven this. All you need to do is speak to the members of the 3 families and youll see how hands off and lucrative Mr. House is.

 

 

Mr. House's securitron forces are very limited and he only has enough to secure the strip and some limited scouting. This is why Mr. House cannot shield nearby communities from raiders. Also if you havent noticed Mr. House put the NCR in charge of defense of the other communities around New Vegas from the fiends and other outside dangers. Blame them for the raiders slipping through. Mr. House also isnt "hiding" technology from the rest of Vegas the Lucky 38 is not operation at this time and only serves as a normal building(other then the life support systems.) without the Platinum chip.

 

 

With the Platinum chip and the Courier's help Mr. House can retrieve his secuitron army beneath fortification hill which will allow him to push back the NCR and Legion(after they have weakened each other which is only a good tactical choice.) and will be able to defend all the communities of the Mojave. He will also directly take control of all of New Vegas just like the strip and begin restoring Pre war factories like H&H tools and Ceralean robotics(hopefully converted into a securitron repair plant and not its pre-war use...) and other such buildings and point of economic potential which means what? Jobs, Money, Food, and Safety for the people of Freeside, Westside, and North Vegas. Mr. House runs a lot like the early Ottoman Empire, pay your taxes, obey simple laws, and you can go about your business with no problem. In case you didnt know the Ottomans were the only empire that werent mass murdering anyone not of their religion at the time and actually grew considerably by taking in a large amount of refugees. Should also show that Muslims dont want to kill everyone else in the world ,like certain parties would have you believe, because they would have done it already>.>

 

 

Please excuse spelling errors.