LE Turn It Back Into A RPG

[Lineoutt]

Ok I guess im in the minority, at least on this thread but let me just say one thing. I love the new way! Why? because I am the kind of person who takes half an hour to pick an ice cream flavor and then is unsatisfied with the one i pick because I feel constantly like I'm missing out on the others. I literally spent all of my time in oblivion (i never played morrowind that far through) making characters and then making new characters and then being unsatisfied and never finishing the main quest. I guess I dont feel that same "elder scrolls" pull that you all do. However I dont like the space age fonts I feel that vanilla skyrim is a much better RPG than vanilla Obv. I can't speak for morrowind because when I played it I did so after I played oblivion and found it to be very static and unimmersive. The greatness of skyrim is that it feels like a living, breathing world. Although I agree that Birthsigns should be there since they are a core part of the lore and don't heavily influence your character beyond some stat buffs.

 

Everything feels so fluid and the people feel like actual people not like awkward robots (oblivion) or scarecrows with interesting personalities (morrowind). Yes skyrim has lots of little problems with balance and interface (I agree with the space age fonts) but overall I don't think it will ever come close to needing the 70 something mods I put into oblivion until it was so overmodded it broke. Crafting, bards, marriage, kids, carriages, versatility, potential!!

[jtcbrown]

Ok I guess im in the minority, at least on this thread but let me just say one thing. I love the new way! Why? because I am the kind of person who takes half an hour to pick an ice cream flavor and then is unsatisfied with the one i pick because I feel constantly like I'm missing out on the others. I literally spent all of my time in oblivion (i never played morrowind that far through) making characters and then making new characters and then being unsatisfied and never finishing the main quest. I guess I dont feel that same "elder scrolls" pull that you all do. However I dont like the space age fonts I feel that vanilla skyrim is a much better RPG than vanilla Obv. I can't speak for morrowind because when I played it I did so after I played oblivion and found it to be very static and unimmersive. The greatness of skyrim is that it feels like a living, breathing world. Although I agree that Birthsigns should be there since they are a core part of the lore and don't heavily influence your character beyond some stat buffs.

 

Everything feels so fluid and the people feel like actual people not like awkward robots (oblivion) or scarecrows with interesting personalities (morrowind). Yes skyrim has lots of little problems with balance and interface (I agree with the space age fonts) but overall I don't think it will ever come close to needing the 70 something mods I put into oblivion until it was so overmodded it broke. Crafting, bards, marriage, kids, carriages, versatility, potential!!

 

I don't necessarily agree with all of that, but yes, Skyrim is much more 'alive' than vanilla Oblivion was.

 

Still, I bought Skyrim for one thing: THE MODS THAT WILL MAKE IT MORE BETTERER! ;)

 

And I am very much hoping for a mod that will give a little more of that RPG feel - I know it probably doesn't much matter mechanically, but I do like having the 'primary attributes' and such. I much preferred the Oscuro's or other various overhaul's methods of skill and level improvement to either vanilla oblivion or the slight alteration made for Skyrim. The concept of having skills increase as you use them is brilliant, on paper, but the fact that you can 'outlevel' your skills with how leveling works can lead to some frustration in building the 'ideal' character.

[maboru]

Lineoutt, there are quite a few font replacers on the mods pages now that are really easy to install and very satisfactory. I chose Morpheus myself but am being tempted by the old Oblivion and Morrowind fonts too. (I would enjoy a color selection as well.)

 

I agree that the imaginative additions to Skyrim are a wonder to behold and bode well for for the further imaginative implementations that will ensue once the modders really get to work with it. I feel that it is the best Beth game out of the box yet and I hope they can do further miracles with FO4. (Wonder if they'll have a projected release date for FO4 on 12/12/12, last chance this century for that symmetry!)

[Ryshili]

You people realize that Daggerfall was different than Arena, then Morrowind changed up abit, then Oblivion, then Skyrim. They are all different gameplay styles.

 

Personally, I really loved Morrowind. I never did get to finish it, nor Oblivion, and my computer crashed along with every mod and save I had... left me pretty much not wanting to play. Right now I'm only borrowing this computer to play Skyrim, and gotta give it back on the 27th, and then who knows when I'm going to be able to play.

 

The thing I'm pissy about is the huge decrease in fantasy critters than it used to be.

While I always put the "real animal" mod on, I might all the interesting critters there used to be... seems to be a lot of humanoids (giants, trolls etc, though I know that fits in with the Nordic theme) but the "deer", "bears", "elk" etc all could have been different things that would be in THAT world.

 

I miss also having the "dictionary" that Morrowind had, with all the terms, people, history and etc. I also enjoyed the journal, saying what days I did important events as well as creating my own, though the quest management in Skyrim is really awesome. I just wish to have that dictionary once more, though I know there's wikis for it, but I don't want to tab out. Haha.

 

Oblivion has been less liking on my menu. It got a bit, drab for me at points. Though at the same time, I still enjoyed it.

Daggerfall and Arena are their own special charms and so HUGE. I never really played much, and I really wish to one day run through as much as that vast land as I could. I realize it was so vast because they repeated a lot of graphics and it wasn't all terribly unique, but hey.

 

I think I got a bit off topic but...

 

It still feels WRPG. Not as much as Morrowind, but a new flavor. It's hard getting used to it... but honestly, JRPGs evolved as well... and are all different in some sort of aspect. Everything used to be Turn Based or Tatics, and now there's all sorts of new add-ons.

 

 

... that being said, where are my Giant Snakes?

[cheajiwon]

I am pretty much having fun with SKYRIM now. But I can't deny the fact that Skyrim is too much limited in its way of making your own character.

 

the one of the good characteristics that the elder scrolls oblivion had was its unlimited( though it was limited still ;;) possibility of making your character by combining those stat distribution.

 

however in skyrim, my character is already 35 of its level, and i mastered most of the one-hand sword perks already. and then i felt like i'm done already, finished... all i wanted to do was being the best blade master with dual sword play and at my level of 35, i felt like I am done?!!!

 

i don't think we need the old style stat distribution system. but i think we need to improve these perk system more by adding new perks that can affect the magicka regen or health regen things and the perks that can change how sword damages or magic damages work.

 

and also, i think the perks are too short. i think it will be much better if we can extend and put more perks.

[maboru]

I can understand where everyone's coming from and I do enjoy this new system too but as we've seen here many of us want some simple tweaks in order to conform to our personal playing styles and habits. Some additional perks would be nice since the base perks are simply an extension of the old auto-perks you got automatically when improving a skill ( raising the original 4 to 10 in a quite imaginative and interesting way.) However simply adding them to the perk trees may be a relatively simple tweak but adding different ones (ala FO3 or FONV) may be a major challenge and could wreak havoc with the already delicate game balance.

 

Still, I have full faith and confidence in our talented modding community and I believe they're chomping at the bit to get going with the new CK and see what they can do with the already excellent new vanilla base they have to work with. (The new vanilla base character animations are already incredible and I can't wait to see how the modders build on that!)

[Shantih]

I can't see how people are arguing Oblivion was better as far as character creation is concerned. Picking stats? Yeah right, I bet everyone picked Endurance to get as much HP as possible. Picking class skills? I bet most of us picked skills they didn't use in order to control the level ups and make sure to get the much needed +5 in three stats.

 

So what does Skyrim lack compared to Oblivion? The hassle and the bean counting?

 

For the record, the compulsive obsession about builds and the basic need to keep track of skill training on a piece of paper stuck under your keyboard doesn't make Oblivion more of an RPG...

 

Skyrim gives us more freedom to play a character without having to give in to all that crap. You don't have to worry about using skills that will or won't level your character or focus on certain stat related skills so you can maximize your build. You can relax sit back and play the game.

 

Of course if you intend on breaking the game by crafting hundreds of iron daggers simply to max out Smithing early on then you may as well use the console or a trainer.

 

I'm not saying that Skyrim is perfect but after reading this thread I had to set the record straight. Oblivion without mods is far from being this gem of a game. I for one think that getting rid of stats was a bold and clever move. It works because races can be used as templates (and they were already used as such in Oblivion or Morrowind). It also makes sense since improving skills and taking perks is probably more logical than increasing a stat (every stats) to 100 and in the process turning your character into an inhuman godlike figure. Not that it matters that much in the long run but still.

 

Anyway, the problem I have with the system is that I would like the game to discriminate more between mundane tasks and challenging tasks when it comes to increasing skill levels. For instance crafting an iron dagger shouldn't be very fulfilling compared to the making of a high end weapon crafted with rare metals. Also once you've reached a certain skill level skill progression should really slow down quite dramatically. As it is now with the right "birthsign" the levels are simply piling up way too fast.

 

Whether it's the skill progression, the UI or bringing back stats for the players who miss them I guess that once the Creation Kit is out we will see mods that will cater for all these needs. I believe Skyrim is a much better game than Oblivion and that it has more potential. I know many will disagree with this statement but I'll let the future be the judge of that.

[maboru]

I believe everyone here agrees that Skyrim is very much better than Oblivion right out of the box (especially the relatively glitch free play most of us are getting!) However, Oblivion and Morrowind have their good points as well depending on how you like to play. One person's gold is another person's crap and vise versa, nothing wrong with that, if everyone was the same the world would be a very boring place (but then again some people may prefer that!) There is no right or wrong way to play a game, that's entirely up to the individual and should present no threat to anyone else. That's why there are thousands and thousands of mods out for all the Beth games and why they are still being made (even for Morrowind.)

 

It's a wonderful thing that each of us has the opportunity to request mods that offer us the kind of gameplay experience that best conforms to our individual tastes and I very much appreciate this forum for giving us that opportunity. In the mean time I'm also very much enjoying the game as it is and looking forward to playing it again once the CK is released and sets loose the imaginations of the modders.

 

[speaking of which...it's time to get back to it and dust some more scoundrels!]

[smogy]

@maboru

 

I don't know if you're in a minority or not but I am thankful that the character creation is simpler; that we now define our characters by the choices we make while playing... which skills to use (a lot) and which to ignore.

 

"After all the truly excellent work Beth did in creating an unbelievably good hard, dirty, gritty, warts and all Dark Age world and then tabbing out to the computer screen of the Starship Enterprise is simply too incongruous for me!"

 

Well. I couldn't have said that better.

 

Like you I've gotten used to the WASD way of navigating the menus. Most of the time that works great and is quicker than using the mouse. When it comes to accessing the inventory though we need something akin to either Oblivion's BTMod or Morrowind's default system.

 

(Bethesda. Please! Let me sort the inventory by weight or price - along with category. Don't go backwards in UI usability for crying out loud!)

 

What about the 3D map?! This isn't A Long Time Ago in a Galaxy Far Far Away. I don't want no stinking 3D map and markers. I'll bet they did this because someone thought it would wow us and 'add value,' to the game. It didn't and doesn't.

 

(Bethesda. Please! Give me a map that I have to spread on a table or the ground, without markers, and a hand held compass! Help me stay immersed in the beautiful, technologically primitive world you've created.)

 

 

That's all!

 

The first Bethesda game I played was Morrowind and since I think it is overall the best game they have released at this point I am going to come off a wee bit biased...,but Skyrim for all the issues I have with it has brought enough of the Morrowind ethic with it that it has been great fun to play. Its a good game at the moment, modders will make it a great game.

 

I like the character development process, the skill trees despite being a step in the right direction are in my opinion a bit on the lack luster and under-developed side. I would like to see some improvements there and the names for some of the perks could be redone to fit better with the lore.

 

I'm not entirely satisfied with the three attributes model, it seems a bit too simple and formulaic and removes some of the fun of leveling up to my mind. I'm not certain I would recommend returning to an Oblivion system though, or even a Morrowind one in this regard, but I'm not entirely happy with it, at the bottom line I don't feel like I'm really investing in any character development.

 

Inventory wise I too have gotten used to the WASD navigation, but I would much prefer something on the Morrowind side of things. I want to be able to see what the seller has and what I have at the same time...that was a definite step backwards by Bethesda.

 

Couldn't agree more with your take on the map....I mean its a map...it should look like a map not google earth. Flashyness is all well and good, but it doesn't make something good by itself. I do like that NPCs add markers to the map as do books, those are good things as is having to walk from point A to B.

 

On the note of travel; the "carriages" are not carriages they are at best glorified hay wagons. How I miss silt striders...anyway having the wagons is an improvement over no organized form of fast travel, but I think there should be another mode, there were three fast travel systems in Morrowind that tied the Island together wonderfully its a pity Skyrim's main cities aren't tied together that well. Maybe a runestone network?

 

Another of my gripes is that Mark and Recall have not made a reappearance, they are a nice short cut, make it possible to haul loot out of dungeons without it being a pain and with the addition of some sort of intervention spell create an immersion friendly fast travel system. Also an option to disable fast travel via game options should have been included in release....same as there should have been options to remove quest tracking and the "all seeing compass." I tweaked the ini file, but the bottom line is I shouldn't have had to do that because Bethesda was lazy about creating customizing options as a part of the settings.

 

Those are most of my major critiques of how they handled immersion related things. To end on a positive note the first Dwemer ruin I explored was a fantastic three-hour experience.

Edited November 19, 2011 by smogy

[dra6o0n]

Yes when enemies can kill you in 3 hits, that people think its still a full on 'rpg', is where I draw the line.

 

Maybe the generation of people will get worse... You have your COD Kiddies nowadays, and at some point every single gamer out there might not take RPG as seriously...