Vampire Storyline Concept

[MagisterTremere]

Hello Everyone,

 

I believe I can confidently say that I'm not the only fan of this game who finds playing as a vampire intriguing. With this in mind and considering the line of White Wolf games inspired by this subject, I thought it would be nice to see such a concept truly played out in Tamriel/Nirn. I'll spare the commentary on Bethesda's implementation of vampirism in Oblivion as that subject has been addressed "ad nauseum" and I think Drokk and El 'derina addressed these issues nicely. What I'm talking about here is creating a storyline and a mod that gives us bloodsuckers something to do in a world of our own.

 

My idea is to have "our" character be the instrument for uniting vampire clans under "one" flag throughout Tamriel in much the same sense as the Camarilla/Sabbat. Say for instance, we receive a letter from Count Hassildor of Skingrad, requesting a meeting. This could happen say, after the main or Mage's Guild or Cure For Vampirism quests. Upon meeting the Count he explains that he has become more intrigued by us and our accomplishments and thinks that we could assist in making Tamriel a safer place for "all" of it's citizens. (Besides, his wife's death has left him with a void that can't be easily filled.) Long story short, he offers us the embrace and the opportunity to learn from him the "truth" about vampirism. What's more, is he feels that with our help, he can bring vampires out of "hiding" so to speak and into mainstream thought in the places of power around the empire. Obviously he has lived a long life and no longer cares to be ostracized or subjected to the whims of whatever political/social powers are at play. Of course, none of this can occur without the support and cooperation (elimination!) of other vampires and certain "influential" people throughout the empire. This leads our character to meetings with various groups and individuals who can/will play a part in seeing the Count's idea come into fruition or are dead set against it (the plan) or the Count himself. Of course there has to be the requisite opposition, vampire hunters, antagonists, enemies, etc to make this all an interesting storyline. I'd like to elaborate more, but I'd rather pose two questions to anyone who reads this... "Do you think this is a good idea and if so, can we form some sort of group to bring this idea/concept into the game?"

 

Mind you, my idea does not include bringing in a bunch of new textures and weapons and monsters... blah! I'm more concerned with the storyline, creation of characters, etc. As far as I'm concerned, we don't need to reinvent the wheel on this. Besides there are enough mods out there to satisfy anyone's supernatural desires. Now, I know this concept has been done in a sense with "Terran Vampires" and other mods and I'm not suggesting or implying anything with my concept. In fact, it would be great to have some of the vampire mod creators on board. What I'm suggesting is a more earthy type of storyline. In other words, if a character is not magically inclined, then he/she should have a more difficult time learning those associated skills/disciplines. If a player is not naturally combative, perhaps he/she could be more of an administrator/facilitator. What this means is that "If you didn't bring it to the party, it probably won't get 'et". :^D In this way, no one comes into the situation full of abilities that they didn't have already or that no one else has or can't learn. Not to mention what one acquires from one's sire. This is how "clans" are formed and it's based solely on what our character has done and the abilities we possess and have developed. Besides, magic, being what it is on Nirn, is available to everyone. So let's say a Ranger type character acquires a natural affinity with animals. His/her supernatural disposition as a vampire allows greater focus and thus the ability to alter his/her physical attributes (via Alteration - Strength) to frighten or tear apart "almost" anyone. Or let's say our character is more charming or authoritative. Perhaps they will be better equipped to Mesmerize or Dominate (Willpower - Illusion) an "audience" on some level. In this case, you aren't blessed with supreme Willpower simply by virtue of being a vampire "unless", you were already so inclined. It may be somewhat stronger, but not all consuming. This doesn't mean you can't develop the ability, it just isn't a given. This could also influence how the story plays out. You get the idea. ;^)

 

I'd welcome the opportunity to discuss this further with anyone who's interested and/or willing to contribute. I myself am not highly skilled with the CS and/or creating meshes and textures. However, I can create characters and homes (with help), so I won't be totally useless. I do believe that my best contribution will be in creating the storyline and hopefully some of the dialog. The whole idea behind this is simplicity and intrigue not gadgets, smoke and mirrors. As far as I'm concerned we can stick with items and types of homes that are in the game already. This is about an engaging storyline, not magical castles, omnipotent personages, super weapons and epic battles. I'm suggesting more "accessibility".

 

Ideas, thoughts, suggestions?

 

Thanks for hearing me out.

~*Gabriel

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Concerning the quest, I'm not sure how one could make it Tamriel-wide. Both because it would seem like sort of a cop-out if it all took place in Cyrodiil, and because some of the vampires in other provinces are pretty outlandish. (Immortal Blood, which can be found in the Order of the Virtuous Blood's basement, is a pretty good lore-supply. And an H2H boost.) Also, most of even Cyrodiil's vampires aren't exactly civilized or "just misunderstood", going by the Count's dialogue, Jakben's diary, (It took him almost a century to get "a measure of control" over his blood-frenzy) and their inherent agression. Finally, seems to me that starting it based on the Cure quest would be a bit weird from the player's perspective...

 

That aside, the mechanics do seem doable. It sounds like the level-up mechanics would be sort of similar to Terran Vampires, except reliant on attributes/skills/bloodline to determine price. What kind of abilities are you thinking of? Just vanilla-ish ones, limited scripting? However, it seems like the plot would need major changes if you wanted it to fit with the lore at all.

[MagisterTremere]

'LoginToDownload'" data-cid="343712" data-date="Dec 13 2007, 06:59 PM said:

Concerning the quest, I'm not sure how one could make it Tamriel-wide. Both because it would seem like sort of a cop-out if it all took place in Cyrodiil, and because some of the vampires in other provinces are pretty outlandish. (Immortal Blood, which can be found in the Order of the Virtuous Blood's basement, is a pretty good lore-supply. And an H2H boost.) Also, most of even Cyrodiil's vampires aren't exactly civilized or &quot;just misunderstood&quot;, going by the Count's dialogue, Jakben's diary, (It took him almost a century to get &quot;a measure of control&quot; over his blood-frenzy) and their inherent agression. Finally, seems to me that starting it based on the Cure quest would be a bit weird from the player's perspective...<br />

<br />

That aside, the mechanics do seem doable. It sounds like the level-up mechanics would be sort of similar to Terran Vampires, except reliant on attributes/skills/bloodline to determine price. What kind of abilities are you thinking of? Just vanilla-ish ones, limited scripting? However, it seems like the plot would need major changes if you wanted it to fit with the lore at all.

Hello and thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

I understand your idea about it being Tamriel wide. I suppose my reference to Tamriel was more metaphorical than practical for exactly the reason you mentioned. Secondly, I'm not immersed in or knowledgeable enough about Tamrielic lore to make a quantifiable statement on the subject which is why I hope to hear more about it. Having said this, I'm not sure I understand why it would necessarily be a cop-out if it all took place in Cyrodiil as "it has to start somewhere". Perhaps it could lead to infiltrations and/or battles with vampires from other provinces, but I'm getting ahead of myself here. Likewise, the main protagonist (as it stands, Count Hassildor) is based in Cyrodiil. As you mentioned the fact that most of Cyrodiils vampires aren't "exactly civilized", I can imagine this being used as part of the reason for why the main protagonist has decided on this course of action. What I mean is if I am part of a group that people view unfavorably and I seek to change that perception, then I must do something to justify/quantify my stance. This, ultimately could lead to the inevitable conflict or cooperation between the various groups. Some seeing the benefits right away and others rejecting the idea of being governed. For the sake of clarity, I wasn't suggesting the "Cure" quest as a catalyst. I was just saying that the quest could be initiated afterwards with the Count missing the company of a "kindred" spirit.

 

You are right on target about the mechanics. I don't have a problem with the idea of vampires learning enhanced disciplines, I just don't think they should necessarily be a given. My idea is that a person responds according to their gifts and the choices they make. Surely, the blood will determine some capacity for one versus the other, but that's not to say that a person/vampire can't learn something new or discover a capability he/she didn't know they had beforehand (a'la Self discovery. Growing into your capabilities.)

 

As far as abilities are concerned, I think a good mix of the vanilla-ish ones and some "character specific" scripting is in order. I like the idea of one casting a "Presence" spell on themselves that causes others to:

 

1. Freeze in fear/Delay their response (Projecting Rage or Calm)

2. Stare in awe (Projecting Attraction or Charm)

 

What I'm saying with this is that it should be passive instead of touch-based. I think what we should get away from are the goofy zombie-like reactions. I think a Dominate spell should leave the subject feeling as if the caster's command was their idea (Willpower - Illusion) from the start. Not the atypical, "Yes Master", but more like the "Jedi mind trick". After all, the vampires still want to keep their identity hidden. ;^) You certainly can't have some goofball marching behind you all wide-eyed and not have people find that strange. No? *Chuckles* Of course, I'm sure I'll be better informed about the possibilities of scripting by reading more about it and from people such as yourself... hopefully.

 

Still listening... Thanks for your input. Keep it coming! :^)

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Actually, I suppose you're right about the quest being all in Cyrodiil either way, but I still doubt it's really doable to have it Tamriel-wide unless it involved nothing more then sending others to exterminate a few of the more "inhuman" types of vampire. (A few of them outright eat people whole. Not all that reconcilable) But that strikes me as much too great an undertaking just to assign it to NPCs and assume success. Especially the other types that can blend in with humanity.

 

I don't really know that much about the lore either, aside from what books I randomly pick up. Still, though, it seems as if the options for "fairly" getting vampires a better image requires destroying most of them. (Thinking of the generic "dungeon" vampires, who seem too blood-starved and insane to listen to much of anything) Of course, the alternative is to "convince" Chancellor Ocato and the counts/countesses to allow vampires, which seems equally interesting. Another problem with the former is that it would probably require you significantly mess with all the vampire-dungeons, and would thus be pretty mod-incompatible.

 

The sort of "suggestion" system you're asking for is definitely doable, and is already implemented in Terran Vampires to a pretty large extent, and many vampire-overhauls have a generic "You feel sleepy" power that makes someone seek out a bed.

 

As for the quest starting, it makes okay sense if you count (I make pun) "magically asleep" as missing. If it requires you beat the quest, chances seem to me that you'd still probably have taken the cure. I'm sort of mixed up on that...

[LoginToDownload]

Small issues don't mean unimportant, do they? I like nitpicking... :P

How about after either the Mages Guild quest Ulerior Motives, or the following quest dealing with Hassildor and the vampire hunters? That seems like when he starts to trust you, and you do something for him, and it's not quite as far along as Arch-Mage. Quite frankly, I'm not sure he'd trust the Listener with such a plan either, even if he knew of your rank...

I also agree that new dungeons wouldn't be hard, I just think there would logically be, very, very few supportive groups. Particulaly among the vampires. And, if that was the case, the only way to really go about it is to exterminate the (many) antagonistic ones or bribe/bully/otherwise convince them. I suppose that ties into the quest thing, but I think they would tend to hate vampires/be filled with blood-frenzy too much to allow something such as a task/mission to change their minds. (Actually, does anyone else have thoughts on the human/vampire reactions to such a thing?)

 

Starting in Cyrodiil is fine. Sorry about that...

 

Terran Vampires handled it by leaving the vanilla system and NPCs alone completely and inserting an "alternate" vampirism into Cyrodiil. There was the occasional randomly generated dungeon-boss that had Terran Vampire abilities while retaining the same basic status (Bandit, Necromancer, or even a standard "double" vampire).

[Rhydderch Hael]

If you want a schism as big as the Camarilla/Sabbat, you can develop two diverging trains of thought between vampire populations: one side regards themselves as the undead, their mortal essences halted yet not destroyed. The other side sees vampirism more as a daedric chimera— something that elevates them closer to godhood, who must abandon their former mortal natures in order to continue upon the path away from the mundane world.

[MagisterTremere]

Hello Rhydderch Hael. Thanks for your input.

 

I think you both raise good points. Oh and "Young Canada" (since I don't know your name... sorry), you're right, details are important, but we don't want to get too caught up in them just yet. Like you, I can be very exacting about what I want and what I see in regards to this. The most important thing at this point is trying to clarify whether the concept is doable, yes or no? For the sake of clarity, let me say that whether this concept plays out in vanilla Oblivion or in conjunction with another mod is really not that important. Honestly, my preference is to work with the likes of Drokk and/or El'derina because their implementation of vampirism seems the most accessible to me, but that's just my opinion. The important thing here (as I see it), is the concept. Can it be played out in Cyrodiil? I believe it can; it's just a question of how "exactly". I think that once we establish the storyline, we can better understand why a group goes along or not. Maybe in the Elder Scrolls ethos, vampires are animals, but therein lies the beauty of a mod. We can choose to go another way for the sake of those who prefer playing as another type of character. I think that once we start creating characters, we can make them respond however we want. Some will be on board with the plan and others may not. There are any number of scenarios that could be justified when you consider that the story is "inspired by" the WoD, but being inspired by, doesn't necessarily mean it has to be just like it. Remember, it's the concept and the implementation we're discussing, not necessarily the "ethos".

 

With that said, "Rhydderch Hael", I think that your ideas are valid in the sense that they can justify why one group agrees to go along or not and would probably add intrigue to the story line. We could have religiously inspired groups, daedric inspired, fighters, etc. The Count, (being a very simple "lick"), probably doesn't care about another vampire's "why". He probably just wants to know if they're on board or not. Our character will serve as the go between and our status will determine what type of instrument we'll be. Will we be a powerful, kick-ass, take no prisoners Nord who thinks like the Count? Or are we a more pragmatic Imperial type? A conniving Elf? A charming, spellcasting Breton? I'm sure you understand what I'm trying to say here. I have to laugh sometimes when I think about being the Nord type and Count Hassildor saying what Prince Lacroix in Vampire - Bloodlines said about his Sheriff.

 

"Whenever there is a problem on which words are wasted, I send him. The less one sees of him, the better."

 

Still, the whole idea behind this is that the Count wants to effectively pull vampires out of the caves and doesn't necessarily want to fight or destroy the others. In this sense, some will see him as a catalyst for change and others will see him and his plan as a menace. At the end of the day, he's prepared to do what he thinks he has to in order to see his plan come about. He's ultimately not looking to rule over Cyrodiil. The point is, he believes that he understands the plight of vampires and his unique status in Cyrodiil qualifies him as being the "voice" of change. You have to remember why groups like the Camarilla were born. Primarily to help vampires escape persecution (if I recall correctly). Obviously, Count Hassildor enjoys his vampiric existence and can imagine there are others who do as well. Being a noble and managing a prosperous county only justifies to him that vampires should not all be seen as "creatures" and at the same time, he accepts no encroaching upon his territory. So with clear lines and established "cooperation", vampires can enjoy better lives (as he sees it). Can you see a Count or Countess' herald being "ghouled" by a vampire in order to exact influence over the royal court? How about the Captain of the Guard? Again, the possibilities are endless.

[MagisterTremere]

You might find these of interest:

 

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Vampirism

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Vampires

 

Hello Abramul,

 

Thanks for the info. I read it and a lot of it is what I suspected which more or less convinces me that this concept is not so far-fetched. Still, I'm going to listen for more information and ideas. You can take for granted that I have a very clear idea about this subject, I'm just curious to know/see if anyone else is intrigued by the idea.

 

Thanks again. :)

[MagisterTremere]

You know folks, another reason why I find this storyline intriguing (and possibly why others don't), is because there's no real "fluff" so to speak. The suggested scenario is purely character based and you aren't promised anything beyond whatever skills you pick up in the process of developing your character. The storyline only promises that you will play a role in start of something significant. Sort of what the main quest leaves out. The upside to this is that the story can take any number of twists in the process of bringing the Count's plan into fruition. Perhaps at the end of the day, our player can end up being the leader of another guild or "God's forbid", the new Count of Skingrad. o.O Perhaps we end up fighting vampires who are harassing the counties along Cyrodiils eastern borders. Who knows. Of course the ideas have to flow and I'm hoping that some of you will the proposition as intriguing as I do.

[MagisterTremere]

After doing a bit of due diligence, I think it best to leave White Wolf lore out of The Elder Scrolls. I say this for two reasons... One is the anal retentive nature of White Wolf about it's so-called intellectual property. The basis of which is found in vampire lore throughout history. The second reason is that "These are the Elder Scrolls". I think if people want to play White Wolf games or in that style, they should play those games. I said in the beginning that I liked the way Drokk and El' derina approached Vampirism in Oblivion and I stand by that, so if this project ever finds legs, I hope we can proceed along the lines of established lore in the Elder Scrolls. Having said this, I still think that more should be done with established entities in the game that are not daedric in origin like vampires for instance.