The Civil War - I'm Clueless

[justwannaddl]

Interesting observation on the Stormcloaks. One thing I'll point out though is that the Stormcloaks claim Ulfric killed the old king in a duel for secession, an arguably barbaric practice but theoretically not an illegal act in Skyrim. I doubt the Jarls think this is such a great way of getting power but I imagine they feel the empire simply isn't working in the interests of Skyrim anymore and are looking for change, even if it leads to less civil practices.

 

That said, I do agree their modus operandi sucks but I'm not certain that Skyrim under the empire would be any better considering the undue influence the Thalmor seem to have over the dumb imperials. After all, while Ulfric may have once been their agent, he isn't their agent now and neither are his people, at least so long as he maintains a stable power base. The Stormcloaks have a unified purpose and a will to execute it. The same can't be said for the Imperials.

 

I don't see the empire as more forward thinking either. If it was more forward thinking, it would have been able to realize the Thalmor were also badly beaten in the war and would have negotiated better terms. The concordant essentially destroyed the empire's legitimacy for Hammerfell and later much of Skyrim. It is a monolithic organization that's disintegrating due to weak leadership and divided interests. With leaders more interested in taking and maintaining power than securing the empire, I'd wager more than a few are willing to take Thalmor aid to do so.

 

On Skyrim being defenseless without the Empire, I'd argue the opposite. Skyrim would likely remain independent even if the Empire were to fall, especially if the Stormcloaks take control. The dominion has shown in Hammerfell that it will have more than a little trouble maintaining control in unsympathetic provinces and will likely be far too preoccupied with trying to secure Cyrodiil to attempt an invasion of Skyrim. If they try to directly attack Skyrim, they'll be far from their homeland, fighting in brutal weather against a well respected army. In a way, it may be in Skyrim's interests get the Thalmor to over extend themselves by taking Cyrodiil so that they may swoop in and remake a new empire.

Edited November 18, 2011 by justwannaddl

[PrincessOfFlorin]

In a way, it may be in Skyrim's interests get the Thalmor to over extend themselves by taking Cyrodiil so that they may swoop in and remake a new empire.

The Ronald Reagan strategy comes to Skyrim!

[rkc34]

Iv played the game through twice and i keep looking for the option of telling both sides off and that im the new king, but no luck on that one so far. Id just ride in on my dragon and kick there asses into submission. lol

[knightofheaven]

Overall Summary: Both sides appear to have their negatives and positives. There appear to be racists on both sides of the conflict. And while freeing Skyrim from the Empire sounds good and noble, is it really tactically sound against the potential fact of the Aldmeri Dominion simply invading the country in total with the Empire behind them, cause I can't see one country, even a country full of Nords standing against that militarily. But then maybe that doesn't matter in the long run. Overall it just seems like neither side really has anything that recommends it over the other, its down to which you feel is the least morally problematic for you, I suppose. Which I guess is good.

~well i agree what you said, but lest not forget that the nords might have Dragons on their side, depending what choices the player make. So i dont see The dominion having much chance. This off course is all supositions.

[Lachdonin]

~well i agree what you said, but lest not forget that the nords might have Dragons on their side, depending what choices the player make. So i dont see The dominion having much chance. This off course is all supositions.

 

I don't think the Dragons are that big a deciding factor... Remember, the Mer rules Tamriel for centuries, if not millennia before the Humans ever came to the contenant. Since the Dragon War took place in Skyrim, we can assume that it was after the whole 500 companions thing, when the Nords slaughtered the Falmer. As such, the Mer and Dragons coexisted for some time, and we haven't heard a single problem with the Dragons causing issues for the Mer. In fact, while the Dragons were around, the Mer were at their peak of power.

[SpikeDietGuy]

I's seems like all sides suck. Can we just do a Spartacus and, KILL THEM ALL!

 

Start our own Kingdom?

[HaikenEdge]

Would be nice for a DLC, but unlikely.

[Draco856]

I sided with the Stormcloaks until the Empire was routed, I then proceeded to eliminate the Jarls that supported Ulfric, but cared nothing about the people of their holds. I've only found 2 that fit that bill, and they are in Morthal and Markarth. Morthals Jarl doesn't care about anyone but herself, and Markarths Jarl only cares about money, so they both had to go. Waiting for a mod to come out that will make it official and give these holds new Jarls because the old ones are dead. 3 holds without Jarls, Windhelm, Morthal, and Markarth.

 

I suspect with the outcome, at least in my game where I'm the most powerful Dovah in existence at the time, I can bring most dragons to heel to help the Nords against the Dominion.

[likeitsillegal]

The Thalmor seem to favor extending the Skyrim civil war for as long as possible, since men fighting among themselves would make cleanup easy, once the two forces have worn each other out in manpower, resources and morale. To an extent, they "support" Ulfric, as he is the very heart of the rebellion. They do not, however, desire a full Stormcloak victory. The mistake the Empire made was underestimating the Thalmor, which they have learned from. I did not support Ulfric, though. He's too driven by emotions, which has already caused him to be easily manipulated for the wills of the Thalmor before. He also has a very aggressive stance towards any non-Nord race within Skyrim. The men he leads often come off as little more than savages, calling for the blood of anyone, Nord or otherwise, who won't actively support their cause.

 

I always felt that the best thing was to go with the Empire. The Stormcloaks won't result in a strong government, and driving the Empire out is only further dividing the power of men, and playing into the Thalmor's hands. I just wish Ulfric didn't come off as a guy using the example of Talos worship being banned for the sake of becoming King of Skyrim.

 

The people of the Empire you meet are all fairly reasonable. I wish you could get rid of Ulfric, and begin work towards facing the real threat - the Thalmor.

Edited November 24, 2011 by likeitsillegal

[falseblackbear]

SPOILER ALERT!!!!

 

 

Ulfric is a Thalmor agent. You find a dossier in the Thalmor embassy in the main quest "diplomatic immunity."

Aside from that, the Empire is simply rebuilding it's strength so it can fight off the Thalmor, similar to what the British did in WWII.

I actually read an in-game book on the 30 years war and the only reason the Empire lost was because they were woefully unprepared since infighting constituted the majority of Titus Mede I's reign and his son, Titus Mede II, is the current emperor.

Honestly, Ulfric is a fool. If the Orcs, Redguards, Imperials, Nords, Dunmer, and Bretons couldn't stand against the Thalmor(Aldmeri Dominion), then how could the Nords alone? The best hope for the rest of the world is to stick with the Empire, rebuild, and drive the Thalmor out of Tamriel.

 

I only saw a bit of this discussion, but I saw some factual errors in one of the posts on the first page, I don't know if these have been addressed already, but here they are:

1. Talos was not Ysgramor. Ysgramor was one of the first to settle Tamriel, while Talos(Tiber Septim) came along much later and founded the Empire.

2. The 30 years war was not a rout, both sides fought to a stalemate and the only reason the Empire was on the losing side of the treaty was because they had fewer soldiers for a war of attrition.