Total Realism Overhaul

[Mansh00ter]

 

I love using ratios... No possibilities of OP anything unless it's designed to be OP.

 

For example, the armor system, if on ratios, could have ANY number for armor rating (1000+ anyone?) and you will have only a 90% absorb or have 5billion armor rating and have 99% damage absorb.

The armor rating using ratios mod was choice #2 right after TDL when I was deciding on what mod to make back when Skyrim first came out.

 

Then you will like Combat Overhaul, since it does exactly that. It takes into account the armor rating of an actor, and creates a ratio against a roof value plus a static cap (80% damage reduction).

 

A roof value doesn't sound good. Neither does a static cap.

 

Here's an awesome algorithm.

 

damageAbsorbPercent = sin(sqrt(armorRating,e)) * 100;

 

Heh, I like that. You're right, it's better to leave things flexible, even if just theoretically. You never know when you're going to fight a god or something. :P

Edited July 5, 2012 by Mansh00ter

[Mansh00ter]

"his does create situations where you drop a common bandit with two or three arrows and his boss needs five (and hits a bit harder), but on the other hand, it removes the weird situations where you can kill obvious bosses with a couple of hits."

 

Awww, c'mon. Why would a boss could take more arrows if his protection is not good enough? Its just illogical to give him more resistance against these things, just because "he's the boss". Equip him with higher grade armour and better skills/perks, and that would be fair. And why could a common bandit take 2-3 arrows?

 

Because otherwise you can breeze through the game on archery. I still haven't discovered how to make aiming bastardly hard at lower skill levels... until I do (open for suggestions), I have to keep archery balanced. Ideally I would want to make the player aim weave according to their archery skill. So at first they have trouble hitting a mammoth, but as skilled archers they can clear a room without anyone coming even close, a la Legolas.

Plus, headshots, but that comes later. Right now the aim is to test if the new combat system works consistently, and iron out the inevitable horde of bugs.

 

As for bosses, there are thousands of NPC's... adjusting their armor/skills/perks would take a loooong time. This way I sidestep that. Do note that a boss fight does not mean you are going to be smashing that dude hundreds of times like in vanilla. He still goes down quick if you know what you are doing, but so do you. Think Boromir from LOTR. He took four-five arrows or so? Like a boss.

[Galacticat42]

Gah, nevermind - trying to find a new function that works better and I keep breaking each one at the extremes. Edited July 5, 2012 by Budz42

[Galacticat42]

Aha! Found the perfect algorithm.

 

e = 2.718; a mathematical constant
graphInverter = 2; when multiplied by 2, e inverts the graph.
graphClimbRate = 75; A perfect balance between no armor, light armor, heavy armor, and big bad bosses
horAsymptote = 100; disallows those big bad bosses from being 100% immune to any and all damage by default
armorAbsorbPercent = pow((e*graphInverter),(-1*sqrt(graphClimbRate/armorRating)))*horAsymptote;

Edited July 5, 2012 by Budz42

[tomislawus]

What's the point of increasing your HP then or finding a sharper sword? Maybe I didn't understand the script that well, but damage seems to be based solely on skill ratios, weapon types, race multipliers and armor rating.

 

Where is the part that takes your health and conditioning into account? A skinny rogue will deal the same amount of damage with his sword as buffed warrior, given they have equal skill?

[tomislawus]

Also, I concur that human body can take much more punishment than we would imagine - as a Napoleonic era enthusiast I did read a couple stories of people surviving (and still fighting) after getting shot (from muskets!) several times or slashed by a sword 17 (!) or so times.

[Mansh00ter]

What's the point of increasing your HP then or finding a sharper sword? Maybe I didn't understand the script that well, but damage seems to be based solely on skill ratios, weapon types, race multipliers and armor rating.

 

Where is the part that takes your health and conditioning into account? A skinny rogue will deal the same amount of damage with his sword as buffed warrior, given they have equal skill?

 

Do you know what happens when a skinny man swings a big sword at you and connects? The same thing that happens when a big man does it. The big man might be able to hack off your arm, but from your point of view (dead), it doesn't matter much if your arm is hacked off or just mauled. When it comes to weapon damage potential, by themselves different weapons of the same type are doing the same kind of damage.

 

You will want to get magical or better quality weapons for other reasons. There will be scripts governing how likely your weapon is to break or get damaged in combat (separate from the main combat script). You will need special weapons to kill magical or unnatural enemies. And so on. But just for damage, feel free to keep that iron sword if you like it. Or get something shinier for the cosmetic value. :)

 

Skill, strength (there is no Strength attribute in Skyrim, so I just used total HP) and such are taken into account when blocking. Usually if you block you will block all damage, nothing gets through. But if your opponent is stronger, more skilled or has a larger weapon, then that is taken into account and some of the damage can get past your block. So if you plan on fighting trolls, you might want to get some muscle (HP) or be very skilled with your weapon, or use a shield and so on.

[Mansh00ter]

Aha! Found the perfect algorithm.

 

e = 2.718; a mathematical constant
graphInverter = 2; when multiplied by 2, e inverts the graph.
graphClimbRate = 75; A perfect balance between no armor, light armor, heavy armor, and big bad bosses
horAsymptote = 100; disallows those big bad bosses from being 100% immune to any and all damage by default
armorAbsorbPercent = pow((e*graphInverter),(-1*sqrt(graphClimbRate/armorRating)))*horAsymptote;

 

 

Thanks Budz42, I'll plug that bad boy in and if it does the job you just made it into the credits. :)

Edited July 5, 2012 by Mansh00ter

[tomislawus]

What's the point of increasing your HP then or finding a sharper sword? Maybe I didn't understand the script that well, but damage seems to be based solely on skill ratios, weapon types, race multipliers and armor rating.

 

Where is the part that takes your health and conditioning into account? A skinny rogue will deal the same amount of damage with his sword as buffed warrior, given they have equal skill?

 

Do you know what happens when a skinny man swings a big sword at you and connects? The same thing that happens when a big man does it. The big man might be able to hack off your arm, but from your point of view (dead), it doesn't matter much if your arm is hacked off or just mauled. When it comes to weapon damage potential, by themselves different weapons of the same type are doing the same kind of damage.

 

You will want to get magical or better quality weapons for other reasons. There will be scripts governing how likely your weapon is to break or get damaged in combat (separate from the main combat script). You will need special weapons to kill magical or unnatural enemies. And so on. But just for damage, feel free to keep that iron sword if you like it. Or get something shinier for the cosmetic value. :)

 

Skill, strength (there is no Strength attribute in Skyrim, so I just used total HP) and such are taken into account when blocking. Usually if you block you will block all damage, nothing gets through. But if your opponent is stronger, more skilled or has a larger weapon, then that is taken into account and some of the damage can get past your block. So if you plan on fighting trolls, you might want to get some muscle (HP) or be very skilled with your weapon, or use a shield and so on.

 

I'm sorry, but I can't agree here. Melee combat is ALL about strength! Only when the skill level of both fighters differs by a lot, a skill can conquer brute strength - otherwise the stronger and more brutal guy will always win. I used to train and fight Krav maga and also fight with swords and in armor (competitively and not just for reenactment) and seriously - its all about your conditioning and strength. Dodging and blocking is IMMENSELY hard (both hand to hand and with weapons) and only people with a lot of skill and experience can do it (and only against noobs). Look at any MMA fight - the guy who goes on defense always loses.

 

Taking out strength (HP in Skyrim) out of the equation is the worst idea ever. There is a HUGE difference between being hit by a skinny rogue and a buffed warrior and even if you assume it is not true for human vs human fights, consider that fighting with a beast, dragon or an undead (all of them are much more resilient than a human) MUST be ALL about strength - being able to chop off that zombie arm off or thrusting your sword through that dragon scale is all about physical strength!

 

Manashota, I suspect that you think that melee fights are these epic duels from The Duelists where two professional soldiers with their 2 kg sabers and no armor give a fencing show for several minutes. Yes, in these fights its all about speed and skill, but these are not the fights of Skyrim! Skyrim fights are brutal, short and ungraceful just as the lives of Nords.

 

Please, I beg of you to base the damage formula on strength (total hp or even better - bonus hp) and not skill! Skill is the thing you should base parrying and its effectiveness on, but for some reason you are doing the opposite:(

[lagi]

A system where instead of HP, there is blood, which you lose based on your wounds would in my opinion be far superior to the HP based system.

 

This system, combined with locational damage and the realistic armor penetration you unfortunately had to scrap would provide amazing realism to the game.

The stronger a character would be and the better the weapon he is using is, the higher his chance would be to penetrate the enemy armor and cause worse wounds, if not dismemberment. The weapon type would naturally also be taken into account in the calculations.

(An iron sword should cut through flesh worse than a daedric one, for example and a daedric axe should penetrate armor more easily than a sword of the same material. Tsun should have no trouble cutting you into small pieces through your armor, while a bosmer rogue with a dagger would be mostly harmless unless he hit you in unarmored locations.)

 

This all has probably been mentioned before and all this would naturally take a lot of scripting and AI modifying to make them fight effectively and I doubt it could be done in Skyrim, at least without horrible script lag, but it's nice to have some dreams.

Edited July 5, 2012 by lagi