Total Realism Overhaul

[Mansh00ter]

@Tomislawus I think you misunderstand how the whole system works. :)

 

But first: I train Wing Tzun and used to train Shorinji Kempo and Kenjutsu and I disagree about strength. Strength has very little to do with the final outcome of a fight. Skill, stamina and speed are always more important. *Especially* when it comes to swords. Maybe in classical medieval combat, but even then, only if you're treating your sword as a hammer and the other guy as a walking tin can. Which I concede was often the case, but that's beside the point.

 

Now, consider the mechanics of the game. There is a HUGE disparity of total HP between various creatures. You have wolves with barely 20HP on one end and dragons with several thousand HP on the other. So if you took HP to factor in the damage in any significant way, you would create situations where it would be impossible for the player to survive even one hit, OR situations where the player wouldn't even have to bother defending themselves. You just can't fit that extreme a range into a formula and avoid extreme results.

 

BUT - there is a little consolation for you. If you keep pumping your HP, you effectively get stronger, which IS factored in when determining your Attack Multiplier. So there is a difference between a scrawny fighter and a burly one, just not a hugely significant one since there is a hard cap on the damage bonus. Otherwise you again might end up with impossible/trivial encounters.

 

Your "strength" does play a much larger factor in defense. If you try to block a hit, you have to be strong enough compared to your opponent, or else it will get through. And you can see the difference between blocking a melee attack from a skeever and a dragon (the latter smashes through most of the time).

 

So don't worry. There is a large number of factors involved in combat, including your relative strength. But weapons as such are not one of them. A sharp iron sword will cut just as well as a daedric one.

 

@lagi - yeah, I also hoped to have that system in, and while it worked nicely, the lag was awful. I am still trying to work around the problem, since I think having armor/weapon penetration is absolutely a blast and adds a lot to the game, but no promises. Right now the system is doing well without it, and if I manage to find a way to work it in without lag, I'll definitely do it.

[msz666]

by now im much more interested in a cage fight between manshooter and tomislavus than in the progress of the mod.

 

plz put it on youtube!

[Albin0gh0st]

That fight would depend on the first strike. Judging from what Tomislawus has said, he would strike first, if Mansh00ter was able to dodge and counter, game over Tomislawus.. if not, game over Mansh00ter. Evasion is more important than strength, I'm a small guy (132 lbs soaking wet) But I've been the victor in every fight I've been in (~6 to date, nothing fancy) because I MOVE, and I strike weak points. "f*** fair, I'm winning."

[tomislawus]

Cant you fight off those extremes in hp ranges by scaling it through some neat mathematical function - some sin-alpha&%^whatever (I'm a humanist:D)?

 

I still don't understand how hp (strength) is calculated into damage formula from the attacker side of it.

 

Also, please do not consider my nitpicking as an assault - I'm genuinely interested in wellbeing of this mod and of it fulfilling its ambitious goals of total realism - I love you Manashota :wub:

[Mansh00ter]

I'm reworking come coding for the AR calculations, so that they're more flexible, so I can't show the code yet. Basically I want the character stats to have meaning beyond just soaking up damage, but I have to be careful with damage bonuses. There has to be a roof value, otherwise things could get really weird. Even now at lower levels, it is very hard to survive a single pounce from a giant frost spider, it just crushes through blocks like tissue paper (which makes sense, the thing is the size of a cart). Being so "strong" (lots of HP), it also attacks much harder, so it can kill you in two-three direct hits, as opposed to say a skeever which needs to gnaw on you for a bit. ;)

 

So suppose you get a few levels, and buff up your HP. Now you're somewhat closer to the giant spider strength, relatively speaking. This time, when you block, you are much more effective, and thus have better chance of surviving. BUT, it will still kill you in a couple of unblocked hits, since it's damage potential relative to your health remains the same.

The same goes for your attacks. More HP you have, harder you hit, up to a point. If you could attain a dragon-level of HP (ergo dragon-strength), your melee attacks would be just as strong, so there's your incentive to buff HP as a melee fighter. It also gives purpose to all magical means of buffing HP... those won't save you from dying, but will make you hit harder.

 

Especially when I introduce power attack slamming, which will take into account your relative HP ratios, the damage percentage you just inflicted and send your opponents flying (not far, but just far enough to create that "oomph" effect :P)

[Skrdrm]

Could you tell us about wounds and injuries and how they will affect the player?

 

Oh, and about archery; Duke Patrick's Combat mod has archery features with some bow sway implementation, you might wanna take a look at how he managed to do it.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Skrdrm

[Mansh00ter]

Great, I'll take a look after I get back from my travel.

 

Wounds: there will be various ones, bleeding, cracked bones, concussions, burns, etc. Pretty much anything you'd realistically expect could happen. Some will be lethal, others just debilitating. You will need either special magic (not just any healing spell) or medicinal salves and splints to heal them.

 

0.1a will have just the basic stuff, more there for testing (does it happen too often, or not often enough etc.) and none of them will require any special healing methods.

[Galacticat42]

Don't forget to take a look at the More Dynamic Injuries mod. I like the way he handles damage. Edited July 5, 2012 by Budz42

[tomislawus]

What about introducing diminishing returns instead of static roof values? The more hp you have the more damage your deal, but also the more hp you have the less additional damage it gives you - every point of hp besides the first one gives less and less bang-for-the-buck. I just feel that introducing min and max thresholds for anything is a bad idea.

[Galacticat42]

What about introducing diminishing returns instead of static roof values? The more hp you have the more damage your deal, but also the more hp you have the less additional damage it gives you - every point of hp besides the first one gives less and less bang-for-the-buck. I just feel that introducing min and max thresholds for anything is a bad idea.

 

Whenever I hear those two words side by side, I always think of the annoying times in WoW when my 2 minute fear lasted for 10 seconds...

 

I do not agree with diminishing returns, but I do agree with strength oriented HP (the two are NOT the same). A lot of people and a lot of mods like to view the HP bar as a tolerance bar instead. The tolerance bar represents many things and can be broken down into blood levels, how many wounds you can handle before 'giving up', how woozy you are and how hard you can strike.

 

The stamina bar needs a total overhaul. Instead of just being a meter for how many times you can hit hard or how long you can sprint, it should be an adrenaline bar where the default rests at 50%. Any lower is bare willpower, which may translate into stamina. Any higher is an adrenaline rush and an 'overload'. The longer your adrenaline is above normal, the less tolerance (or HP bar) you have when your adrenaline goes away.

 

By changing these two bars in this way, you can effectively create a destructive hulk at higher levels where you are one massive flesh bag of adrenaline. The opposite could also be said. If you train in magick, then your ability to retain adrenaline will wane. Another positive about this system is the effects food would have on it. Things like beef and water could increase your adrenaline regen. (Of course adrenaline can ONLY be manually regenerated by a tone body in action (i.e. running, sprinting, melee combat). This system will also be able to account for guile in which assassin-type players would be able to handle themselves in a fix.

 

So the three archetypes, warrior, mage and rogue, will each have a unique playstyle. Warriors will increase their adrenaline to tolerance threshold which will allow them to fight at full force till their last breath. Rogues will increase their adrenaline and tolerance regeneration threshold, allowing them to make tactical, deadly strikes, but be incapable of taking many hits. Mages will have default values but will have magic to fortify each value upon their playstyle.