Total Realism Overhaul

[Mansh00ter]

Love the idea - I had some of these myself but don't know enough about the scripting to pull it off. However, whilst it's a great idea, I think that you are going to have to totally rebalance the game to the point where it could break the fun because too much realism will just make it frustrating and painful to play.

 

My advice would be to pay greatest attention to the combat as this is really the key aspect of the fun. Two or three arrows and your dead - that sort of stuff will be frustrating as hell because it's so easy for one bandit to rush at you whilst another stands in the distance and pops an arrow in your ass whilst your not looking - stuff like that will become a PIA very quickly. Ask yourself how long can someone spend in the world just trying to survive before they get bored?

 

A loooong time. :) TRO is a mod for those who like the immersion in their games. It's not so much about finishing the game as it is about playing it. So the feeling that when you swing that axe, you are swinging a deadly weapon, or when you notch that bow that you are going to do some real damage (and vice versa) is integral to that.

 

That said, I will pay attention to make the game enjoyable as well. Right now I am spending time just working out the basic concepts, trying them out in my head, setting up a priority list etc. Combat-wise, I want to make the combat difficult and reward the player with the sense of accomplishment after each fight. I don't want to see annoyance fights in the game, or fights which are so unbalanced they break the immersion. What I want is deadly combat, deadly archery and deadly magic, but presented to the player in a way which will demand skillful playing and reward it, instead of just demanding a lot of reloading.

 

To that end I am thinking out different concepts as to how the gameplay could be adjusted to keep it interesting and immersive. Just the other day I had a fight with a dungeon boss which I ended up winning by resorting to a tactic which is often used in Bethesda games, exploiting the fact that the AI is basically dumb. Popping a few fireballs to lure a boss into your rune trap and then running away and hiding, ten times in a row, should not be a recipe for a glorious boss fight.

 

Now if I had an option of standing there, bold as brass, and deflecting his spells with my wards, trading blows of lethal magical energy while our atronachs duked it out in the background, that would have been something else, even if I ended up losing, it would have been much better. But the way vanilla game is (un)balanced, that is often not a possibility with the most memorable and special characters, which is a shame, and that's what I'll strive to fix.

 

Make no mistake, TRO will make things much harder, but harder doesn't mean less fun.

Edited December 3, 2011 by Mansh00ter

[Oomo]

Love the idea - I had some of these myself but don't know enough about the scripting to pull it off. However, whilst it's a great idea, I think that you are going to have to totally rebalance the game to the point where it could break the fun because too much realism will just make it frustrating and painful to play.

 

My advice would be to pay greatest attention to the combat as this is really the key aspect of the fun. Two or three arrows and your dead - that sort of stuff will be frustrating as hell because it's so easy for one bandit to rush at you whilst another stands in the distance and pops an arrow in your ass whilst your not looking - stuff like that will become a PIA very quickly. Ask yourself how long can someone spend in the world just trying to survive before they get bored?

 

A loooong time. :) TRO is a mod for those who like the immersion in their games. It's not so much about finishing the game as it is about playing it. So the feeling that when you swing that axe, you are swinging a deadly weapon, or when you notch that bow that you are going to do some real damage (and vice versa) is integral to that.

 

That said, I will pay attention to make the game enjoyable as well. Right now I am spending time just working out the basic concepts, trying them out in my head, setting up a priority list etc. Combat-wise, I want to make the combat difficult and reward the player with the sense of accomplishment after each fight. I don't want to see annoyance fights in the game, or fights which are so unbalanced they break the immersion. What I want is deadly combat, deadly archery and deadly magic, but presented to the player in a way which will demand skillful playing and reward it, instead of just demanding a lot of reloading.

 

To that end I am thinking out different concepts as to how the gameplay could be adjusted to keep it interesting and immersive. Just the other day I had a fight with a dungeon boss which I ended up winning by resorting to a tactic which is often used in Bethesda games, exploiting the fact that the AI is basically dumb. Popping a few fireballs to lure a boss into your rune trap and then running away and hiding, ten times in a row, should not be a recipe for a glorious boss fight.

 

Now if I had an option of standing there, bold as brass, and deflecting his spells with my wards, trading blows of lethal magical energy while our atronachs duked it out in the background, that would have been something else, even if I ended up losing, it would have been much better. But the way vanilla game is (un)balanced, that is often not a possibility with the most memorable and special characters, which is a shame, and that's what I'll strive to fix.

 

Make no mistake, TRO will make things much harder, but harder doesn't mean less fun.

 

WELL SAID. It boggles my mind that people still come to a realism mod thread and say stuff like "This realism could make the game frustrating." Then don't download it. Those of us who love realism NEVER get bored with it and the challenges it brings.

[Hoptic]

Your last post makes me looking forward to your mod even more.

 

I'd say you'd better disable the whole leveling thing (your charachter and everything in the world would stay at level 1 forever), while keeping the skill upgrades and perks (not every perk though, some of them are super immersion breakers).

 

Actually playing a second character and trying to make it realistic, I believe that it is necessary to even the levelling of certain skills. It takes forever to get better at smithing or pickpocketing if you try to play realistically (that is to say, not doing 100 iron daggers just to level the skill up).

[Ixflashpointxi]

This sounds great! I do have a few ideas/suggestions, too.

 

1)Companions

• Higher Companion Limit
  *Maybe increase it to 5 - 7 companions so you may fight in a dungeon without worrying about being outnumbered by too many
  *It would help so you're not overwhelmed by enemies
  
• Adds Realism
  *In real life, an adventurer wouldn't wander around and loot potentially deadly dungeons without a party of some sort.
  
• More Companions for hire
  *Not necessarily more "essential" companions, but maybe more generic companions that don't cost much to higher and are not completely outmatched with skill, of course they shouldn't be as good as named companions. Such as "Mercenary O'gabah" as an Orc Mercenary for hire for a mere 300-500 gold. Generic Companions should be able to die as well.
  *There should be more distinction between the named companions as well. Make it so everyone of them has a distinct purpose for a role in battle
  * Make sure to include healers! But maybe have the healer limit be 1 or 2 so you can't just horde healers.
  

2)Survival Skill

• Helps your party
  *Raises Morale
  *Heals Companions
  
• Makes food a viable option for healing
  *Should not surpass potions in healing, though
  

 

Well, I like all of your ideas so far! Tell me what you think about mine, I'll be glad to help the mod in any way, shape, or form.

 

EDIT:

I'd say you'd better disable the whole leveling thing (your charachter and everything in the world would stay at level 1 forever), while keeping the skill upgrades and perks (not every perk though, some of them are super immersion breakers).

 

I believe that it is necessary to even the levelling of certain skills. It takes forever to get better at smithing or pickpocketing if you try to play realistically (that is to say, not doing 100 iron daggers just to level the skill up).

Also, this. ^^

 

EDIT 2:

 

Also, for a way to symbolize the loss of Magic...

 

You could have the brightness of the spells in your hands fade as your magicka decreases.

 

And for a parry/evade for dual wielding...

Honestly, I'd love to have both parrying and evading for dual wielding.

But I'm not sure how possible that is. But if there was a trade-off between the two, I would pick evade. You could code it like side rolls. Except make the key combination something like: x + arrow key. I also think it would be much easier to pull off.

 

And maybe, just maybe. Directional Combat. It would make the game much more interesting, but would take some hard work.

 

Anyways, I'm done for now. Hope you like!

Edited December 3, 2011 by Ixflashpointxi

[chewmanfu]

Maybe increase it to 5 - 7 companions so you may fight in a dungeon without worrying about being outnumbered by too many

While I do like the idea of more companions, the pathfinding is pretty annoying in the game, and many times your AI companions just end up getting in the way. This is especially true in the tight corridors of dungeons. Often your companion ends up getting lost as well, especially if you have a habit of jumping over obstacles like outcroppings or rocks, or down a small overhang, they won't follow you. They usually try to circle around the obstacles instead.

 

I find all the AI companions, even your summoned creatures, stick way too close to your main character. I remember this one companion that drove me insane! It was this talking dog you encounter in one of the Daedric missions. I was attempting to pick off a bandit with my bow while sneaking, and the dog just kept walking into me and was actually pushing my character around, which kept messing up my aim. I would like to see better pathfinding and the ability to customize the distance your companion will keep from your character (Fallout had this option). I also would like to see the an option to order them around, like being able to point somewhere and have them move to that location.

 

Also, for a way to symbolize the loss of Magic...

 

You could have the brightness of the spells in your hands fade as your magicka decreases.

That is a very cool idea! I would like second that feature....

[darkninjaproductions]

Mite have already been said, but for the weapons over hall but having whetstone blocks available to sharpen weapons could be a possibly which could then be mined? or even brought from a special vendor that, "Imports" whetstone from another area of Tamriel.

 

Just an idea.

 

Regards

-Ninja

[Holst]

@manshooter: if you want realistic combat, why not take a look at the way combat works in m&b?

For me combat is the most dissapointing aspect of the game because it is dominated by your healthbar and requires few skill. Don't know if there are others who played m&b or warband, but the thing that pleased me the most was that every battle was determined by your skill. Even if your healthbar was near zero you could still stand up against another opponent because you knew that if your timing was right and you didn't make any mistakes, he would hit the ground. In Skyrim you have to reley on potions and magic for some instant healing and else you have no other choice than to run because you'll still recieve damage when blocking and dodging just doesn't work.

I would love it for combat to become more deadly, but not if this means that first contact is decisive for the outcome of every battle. Small sugestion.

- pump up the damage from weapons

- successfull blocking results in no damage taken

-blocking requires stamina, holding down block is impossible or drains stamina

- if it is possible: breakable shields, so we can once again scream like a little girl when our foe breaks through our defence and all we're left with is our sword.

 

For companions: why not add a daily wage, determined by their level. This could be a standard amount eg 7sep/level, or you could calculate a certain % each time the player recieves gold. Also: killable, but with an expencive option for resurection (temple, scroll...). Yes, I'm a p&p d&d player.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Holst

[Mansh00ter]

Holst, I indeed have played a lot of M&B and I agree that it has some of the best melee combat out there (and the best mounted) - and the changes I will do to Skyrim melee will go along those lines - massive damage from weapons, very effective blocking. I hope to include breakable shields, but that will depend on whether Bethesda left in item durability at all.

[Ixflashpointxi]

Holst, I indeed have played a lot of M&B and I agree that it has some of the best melee combat out there (and the best mounted) - and the changes I will do to Skyrim melee will go along those lines - massive damage from weapons, very effective blocking. I hope to include breakable shields, but that will depend on whether Bethesda left in item durability at all.

Are we going to see directional combat? I would love that :DD

 

@manshooter: if you want realistic combat, why not take a look at the way combat works in m&b?

For me combat is the most dissapointing aspect of the game because it is dominated by your healthbar and requires few skill. Don't know if there are others who played m&b or warband, but the thing that pleased me the most was that every battle was determined by your skill. Even if your healthbar was near zero you could still stand up against another opponent because you knew that if your timing was right and you didn't make any mistakes, he would hit the ground. In Skyrim you have to reley on potions and magic for some instant healing and else you have no other choice than to run because you'll still recieve damage when blocking and dodging just doesn't work.

I would love it for combat to become more deadly, but not if this means that first contact is decisive for the outcome of every battle. Small sugestion.

- pump up the damage from weapons

- successfull blocking results in no damage taken

-blocking requires stamina, holding down block is impossible or drains stamina

- if it is possible: breakable shields, so we can once again scream like a little girl when our foe breaks through our defence and all we're left with is our sword.

 

For companions: why not add a daily wage, determined by their level. This could be a standard amount eg 7sep/level, or you could calculate a certain % each time the player recieves gold. Also: killable, but with an expencive option for resurection (temple, scroll...). Yes, I'm a p&p d&d player.

I also agree with this.

 

Edit:

While I do like the idea of more companions, the pathfinding is pretty annoying in the game, and many times your AI companions just end up getting in the way. This is especially true in the tight corridors of dungeons. Often your companion ends up getting lost as well, especially if you have a habit of jumping over obstacles like outcroppings or rocks, or down a small overhang, they won't follow you. They usually try to circle around the obstacles instead.

 

I find all the AI companions, even your summoned creatures, stick way too close to your main character. I remember this one companion that drove me insane! It was this talking dog you encounter in one of the Daedric missions. I was attempting to pick off a bandit with my bow while sneaking, and the dog just kept walking into me and was actually pushing my character around, which kept messing up my aim. I would like to see better pathfinding and the ability to customize the distance your companion will keep from your character (Fallout had this option). I also would like to see the an option to order them around, like being able to point somewhere and have them move to that location.

 

I also agree with this.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Ixflashpointxi

[cojaca2]

Holst, I indeed have played a lot of M&B and I agree that it has some of the best melee combat out there (and the best mounted) - and the changes I will do to Skyrim melee will go along those lines - massive damage from weapons, very effective blocking. I hope to include breakable shields, but that will depend on whether Bethesda left in item durability at all.

 

They left at least part of it, from the tiny bit of looking around I've done in the .esm file. Whether it is enough to re-implement the entire system the way it used to be, I have no idea, but there might well be something usable.