I am terribly disappointed in Bethesda

[StayFrosty05]

Lol those 2 things you listed, how are they game-breaking? :rolleyes:

Btw did you even read the old man's dialogue? No he's not some holy priest, he's like a devil worshipper with a really rude attitude. How can you possibly feel sorry for him?

 

The annoyance is the forced dialog....Brynjolf chases you around Riften until you finally give up and go through the forced interaction with him....once you tell him to take a hike he still won't take the hint and leave you alone....The Stendarr priest in Markath, I finally learned to just go the long way to avoid the forced dialog, otherwise no matter how many times you tell him 'No', he still hooks you into forced dialog if you accidentally get too close...it's frigging annoying....As for the Daedra Priest, yes, his not much of a person himself, but it still felt lousy to me (when I used to enter the house) to leave some guy tied up in a camp in which everyone is now dead....would rather just cut his bonds and leave him to his own devices.

[StayFrosty05]

The only problem with the "It's illegal' response is your playing a Warrior and s/he feels something like a pansy with that response...I found instead of responding, just quitting the conversation triggers the same response from Brynolf (though either way, he still harasses you every time you accidentally get too close, would be nice if he got the hint and backed off) .....I find a lot of the dialog quite childish actually, which is a real shame.....Dovahkin has absolutely zero depth.

 

As for the Molag Bal situation, it would certainly be a big improvement if telling Molag Bal to go to hell did actually fail the quest and close it....as it stands if you choose to wander the reach after speaking with Bal, you will eventually stumble across the Priest anyway...releasing him is a b*tch if your refusing to do Bal's quest, having the option to warn him of Bal's intentions and being able to release him that way would be a vast improvement.

Its only a pansy response if YOU make it so. It could be taken in any number of ways like "my warriors honor prevents me from doing such a thing" type response, that is how I imagined it when I did a warrior character. The only tone in the Dovahkiin's words is the one you apply to it.

 

Isn't that exactly what the intimidate option is? you telling Lograf that you were sent by Molag Ball? Anyways Lograf is a crazy Daedric cultist, even if you HAD told him he still would have done w/e his lord and master Boethea told him to, which would have led exactly where the quest did anyways.

 

 

 

Honor isn't governed by written law, it's governed by personal morals and choices...I just can't get past the feel in that dialog of his, is opinion based on what he is told is right and wrong. I would just rather more mature dialog for the Dovahkin, I in fact find much of his dialog rather young for my taste, in that I am thankful that he is not voiced....and despite the youth of his dialog, I still enjoy the game or I wouldn't be here....I also guess it's to be expected, I'm an old duck in a predominantly young pond.

 

Warning the priest and intimidating him are two very separate scenario's.....as for his choices after the warning, that's his problem...but Dovahkin has managed to keep his own integrity in his own choice of words/actions.

Edited June 17, 2012 by StayFrosty05

[sukeban]

The annoyance is the forced dialog....Brynjolf chases you around Riften until you finally give up and go through the forced interaction with him....once you tell him to take a hike he still won't take the hint and leave you alone....The Stendarr priest in Markath, I finally learned to just go the long way to avoid the forced dialog, otherwise no matter how many times you tell him 'No', he still hooks you into forced dialog if you accidentally get too close...it's frigging annoying....As for the Daedra Priest, yes, his not much of a person himself, but it still felt lousy to me (when I used to enter the house) to leave some guy tied up in a camp in which everyone is now dead....would rather just cut his bonds and leave him to his own devices.

 

Word to this.

 

All I'm saying is would it REALLY have been such a hard thing to just have had these NPCs posted up in a location and your talking to them activates an option to begin the quest? You know, like in many of the past ES games. What is a Vigillant of Stendarr doing standing in front of a random building in Markarth? I don't know, maybe I'll ask him.... That would be such a vast improvement over the "Arnold hunted by the Predator" experience I also have whenever I enter Riften or Markarth for the first time. Does Beth really think that players are so thick that they cannot be trusted to start quests for themselves? You hear over and over again about Riften is home to the Thieves Guild, how about going there and asking around town, eventually NPCs will direct you to "that shady guy selling god knows what in the marketplace." Then you ask Brynjolf about the Guild. Bingo bango, problem solved for all sides.

 

Ditto for essential NPCs. For real, if you run around just going all Slayer "Reign in Blood" style in towns you are deserving of borking your own game out of sheer stupidity. Either that or you are role-playing a sociopath, which is fine, but don't expect to receive quests from the dead (and if you are a sociopath, why are you even doing quests?). I don't really care if it is bundled into a quest or not, but... I would have really liked to kill Maven Black-Briar in vanilla. Obviously, based on what you learn in Riften, this SHOULD get you thrown out of the Thieves Guild, make you persona non grata in Riften, have you hunted down by her thugs, etc. This is an example of an organic world in whcih what you do actually makes a difference and you, as a player, are responsible for your own actions.

 

There certainly are quests with some minimal degree of choice, but in terms of in-game consequences (negative or positive) and recognition of choices made, these choices are very small. And a lot of this is just counter-intuitive and, IMO, just lazy game design. Taking the CW as a shining example, why am I even allowed in Solitude if I am an avowed member of the Stormcloaks? Shouldn't they bar me at the gates, suspecting that I am there for spying, warfare or assassination? You can betray your original CW choice by taking the Crown of Thorns or whatever to the opposing faction, shouldn't this permanently destroy your relationship with your original CW choice? Instead, it just resets their dialogue to what it was before you joined *facepalm* It would have been nice and excellent game design to a) give you an in-game "incentive" to join a CW faction (perks, gear, disposition, whatever) and then b) after you make your choice, have the other side hate you, increasingly so as you progress with the war. The only way to revisit enemy cities would be to take them for your CW side. That, more than anything else, would give the otherwise copy-paste CW storyline some gravity and would imbue it with more than superficial and illogical choice.

 

TLDR; I just think that Beth needs to give us players a bit more credit when it comes to playing their game. We don't need our hands held and forcibly marched into every quest line. We can take responsibility for our own in-game actions, AND, beyond that, rather than wanting fewer consequences for our actions, really, we want MORE.

[StayFrosty05]

The annoyance is the forced dialog....Brynjolf chases you around Riften until you finally give up and go through the forced interaction with him....once you tell him to take a hike he still won't take the hint and leave you alone....The Stendarr priest in Markath, I finally learned to just go the long way to avoid the forced dialog, otherwise no matter how many times you tell him 'No', he still hooks you into forced dialog if you accidentally get too close...it's frigging annoying....As for the Daedra Priest, yes, his not much of a person himself, but it still felt lousy to me (when I used to enter the house) to leave some guy tied up in a camp in which everyone is now dead....would rather just cut his bonds and leave him to his own devices.

 

Word to this.

 

All I'm saying is would it REALLY have been such a hard thing to just have had these NPCs posted up in a location and your talking to them activates an option to begin the quest? You know, like in many of the past ES games. What is a Vigillant of Stendarr doing standing in front of a random building in Markarth? I don't know, maybe I'll ask him.... That would be such a vast improvement over the "Arnold hunted by the Predator" experience I also have whenever I enter Riften or Markarth for the first time. Does Beth really think that players are so thick that they cannot be trusted to start quests for themselves? You hear over and over again about Riften is home to the Thieves Guild, how about going there and asking around town, eventually NPCs will direct you to "that shady guy selling god knows what in the marketplace." Then you ask Brynjolf about the Guild. Bingo bango, problem solved for all sides.

 

Ditto for essential NPCs. For real, if you run around just going all Slayer "Reign in Blood" style in towns you are deserving of borking your own game out of sheer stupidity. Either that or you are role-playing a sociopath, which is fine, but don't expect to receive quests from the dead (and if you are a sociopath, why are you even doing quests?). I don't really care if it is bundled into a quest or not, but... I would have really liked to kill Maven Black-Briar in vanilla. Obviously, based on what you learn in Riften, this SHOULD get you thrown out of the Thieves Guild, make you persona non grata in Riften, have you hunted down by her thugs, etc. This is an example of an organic world in whcih what you do actually makes a difference and you, as a player, are responsible for your own actions.

 

There certainly are quests with some minimal degree of choice, but in terms of in-game consequences (negative or positive) and recognition of choices made, these choices are very small. And a lot of this is just counter-intuitive and, IMO, just lazy game design. Taking the CW as a shining example, why am I even allowed in Solitude if I am an avowed member of the Stormcloaks? Shouldn't they bar me at the gates, suspecting that I am there for spying, warfare or assassination? You can betray your original CW choice by taking the Crown of Thorns or whatever to the opposing faction, shouldn't this permanently destroy your relationship with your original CW choice? Instead, it just resets their dialogue to what it was before you joined *facepalm* It would have been nice and excellent game design to a) give you an in-game "incentive" to join a CW faction (perks, gear, disposition, whatever) and then b) after you make your choice, have the other side hate you, increasingly so as you progress with the war. The only way to revisit enemy cities would be to take them for your CW side. That, more than anything else, would give the otherwise copy-paste CW storyline some gravity and would imbue it with more than superficial and illogical choice.

 

TLDR; I just think that Beth needs to give us players a bit more credit when it comes to playing their game. We don't need our hands held and forcibly marched into every quest line. We can take responsibility for our own in-game actions, AND, beyond that, rather than wanting fewer consequences for our actions, really, we want MORE.

 

I strongly agree with every word you have written here...well said....Though I do believe you misunderstood my comment about a camp full of dead people, I don't know about your games, but in mine if I do stumble across the Daedric Priest he is always being held hostage in a Forsworn Camp...The Forsworn are not generally open to friendship or turning a blind eye to your close by presence... :turned: ....thus resulting in a camp full of dead people (Forsworn)....I couldn't play a Sociopath myself, my Dovahkin is much more a defender than an attacker, I prefer playing something of a worldly (not naive) though compassionate protagonist...he helps where he can, fights when he has to....But yep, he would certainly make an exception to his rule and top Maven Black Briar himself if the opportunity was there.... :dry: