LE Vanilla friendly (perk and/or items) mod ideas

[Drullo321]

Hello there,

 

There are a lot of great or not so great small/big perk mods/overhauls published. Some add hundred of perks and are really creative, like Ordinator or try to stay more vanilla like Sperg. Also there are mods that only (heavily) modify only one or two perk trees.

 

However, as i like to stay true to vanilla, using mods like CCOR, Smithing Perks Overhaul, a small auto enchantment charger and utilities like SkyTweak, but even so somehow some things were never touched yet by modders (or i didn't find them on the nexus). I like too see a mod/mods, that adress those flaws.

 

I won't mention things like uninspired perks like many mods adressed already, e.g. simple +X% power for Y.

 

Some core flaws remain untouched (when try to stay vanilla like, some even in big overhauls):

 

A) The whole enchanting process:

a1)Enchanting perk tree and the whole enchanting mindless grinding (items and soul stones) and crafting hundreds of daggers/circlets are the only main way to improve enchanting skill (iirc besides little other things like using soul gems to recharge or craft staves).

a2)Enchanting armor is useless before ExtraEffect and enchanting weapons before the ~70-80 skill + grand souls is only useful for enchant your bow/melee weapons with soultrap. We need uses for early game.

a3)Besides using them to skill, every soul gem smaller then black/grand are completely useless.

a4)Any really use for staves beside sanguines rose? Effects like magelight, soultrap, etc. are easier used directly on weapons or simply cast (or auto cast by mods like SmartCast). Default no stave gives experience for anything and only scale with cost reduction. Most/Any mod I saw (e.g. SPERG) mods staves to give experience to magic schools rather to enchanting. There has to be a connection between staves and enchanting, otherwise the staff enchanter wouldnt show/improve the enchanting skill

 

B) Smithing is almost only grinding

a1) While smithing with or without mods (like CCOR, even Morrowloot), is useful even in the low levels for little tempering and crafting missing or stylish armor parts, there isn't a big difference in how to reach higher levels. Mindless grinding and/or melt down stuff. Somehow it is fun but I don't like crafting tons of stuff. I'm a dragonborn, hunterborn, whateverborn and not an assembly line for iron daggers. There should be practical uses for smithing outside of the forge plus noticeable experience gain.

a2) Enderal introduced us with crafted counterparts, that are slightly better then found ones. I believe that could be done via SKSE without creating hundreds of new recipes.

 

 

Some general wishes outside core flaws:

 

C) A mod like SPERG:

c1) Including some core concepts like auto perks

c2) More lightweight. First improvements should be genereting auto perk route for all trees, then maybe merging some perks (e.g. fire,frost,storm enchanter), giving space for new

c2) Without those interconnection between different perk trees, e.g. no perk in marksmen gives general +x dmg or +x% critical hit for ALL weapons

c3) Fusing lockpicking and pickpocket into one tree

c4) Conjuration scaling for summons (already some mods out there)

c5) More distinction between light and heavy armor without adding or removing flaws of wearing armor of that type. E.g. there is no use for the vanilla steed stone when using the heavy armor perk conditioning (weightless, no slow down).

Edited July 16, 2016 by Drullo321

[technicalbrutaldeathcore]

I'm not really planning to take on your mod but will respond anyone (I should point out I'm working on a mod myself where a work in relation to smithing exclusively on the recipes.)

 

In relation to enchanting, what are you actually asking for...and how would editing to perk tree address it? Sounds like you want more to do earlier on...which doesn't really appear as a perk tree issue.

 

Why would you level while using staves...you're not actively using any of your skills to use the staff.....

 

Ahhh, the smithing skill as the name suggests pertains to smithing...what logical use could it have outside of the forge? Would a larger array of items to smith as well as a longer list of requirements for weapons and armour remove the feeling of grinding?

 

Strangely your statement about not being a dedicated smith is all the more reason for it to take a longer amount of time if anything, at least from a logical standpoint. Realistically your character shouldn't know how to smith anything...nor is it likely they'd learn throughout a playthrough...maybe an improvement could be made in forcing the character to actually learn how to smith?

 

My mod is focused more on realism however, the penalties for wearing heavy and light armour are things I plan on addressing...namely making them almost one in the same, at least in relation to speed/short term stamina usage. I've also changed the weights of weapons and armour as well.

[Drullo321]

I'm not really planning to take on your mod but will respond anyone (I should point out I'm working on a mod myself where a work in relation to smithing exclusively on the recipes.)

 

In relation to enchanting, what are you actually asking for...and how would editing to perk tree address it? Sounds like you want more to do earlier on...which doesn't really appear as a perk tree issue.

 

Why would you level while using staves...you're not actively using any of your skills to use the staff.....

 

Ahhh, the smithing skill as the name suggests pertains to smithing...what logical use could it have outside of the forge? Would a larger array of items to smith as well as a longer list of requirements for weapons and armour remove the feeling of grinding?

 

Strangely your statement about not being a dedicated smith is all the more reason for it to take a longer amount of time if anything, at least from a logical standpoint. Realistically your character shouldn't know how to smith anything...nor is it likely they'd learn throughout a playthrough...maybe an improvement could be made in forcing the character to actually learn how to smith?

 

My mod is focused more on realism however, the penalties for wearing heavy and light armour are things I plan on addressing...namely making them almost one in the same, at least in relation to speed/short term stamina usage. I've also changed the weights of weapons and armour as well.

 

Enchanting Perk Tree Issues:

 

A) There are three different elemental perks (frost, fire, shock). This could be simply one perk, adding all features in one. Why? Have a look at the destruction and alchemy perk tree. While destruction also distinguishes between the elements, at least it adds a specific ability to each element with another perk. In addition, "Insightful Enchanter" and "Corpus Enchanter" also combines effects, like the similar perk in Alchemy ("Physican")

 

B) Extra Effect as the ultimate perk should be useful earlier, maybe with penalties like reduced power for booth effects first. Compare it to the Smithing perk "Arcane Blacksmith" which is avaible with 60 skill points.

 

General Enchanting related issues, not directly affected by perks:

 

C) There are different play styles and for ovious reasons some skills benefit more from one than others. Like smithing is in the combat section and a pure mage using armor spells has little to no use beside crafting jewelry. That is completely valid. There is enchanting, which is especially a part of the magic skills. Then, shouldn't you have less cost and complexity to trap and use souls? As a warrior you only need the soultrap enchant on a weapon which is common and nearly infinite. You have no costs. As a mage you need to use soultrap which cost alot in the beginning while still using other magic and magicka to kill your target. Also it needs more real effort like swapping spells then just hack'n slash with no benefits. (A possible small idea: with more skill you can get a better version of soultrap working like an aura rather then on specific targets)

 

D) Repeat: Smithing is a combat skill. (Pure) mages benefit less or none from Smithing. Ingredients like ore/ingots specifically are designed for smithing. Enchanting on the other hand is a mage skill and generel enchants on armor are benefical for all play styles. On weapons it is only useful for combat orientated characters AND the feature of recharging (weapons) through soul gems is nearly solely useful for combat characters because most staves beside e.g. Sanguines Rose or Wabbajack are useless for other reasons.

 

E) There is no early use for enchanting in contrast to every other skill in the game. Crafting 1% fortify school enchant on a armor part. That is a joke. Compare it with smithing or alchemy which are useful even in early game. Whatever it is, it needs early usefulness

[lofgren]

I think your diagnosis of the enchanting school is spot on. Here is a description of an overhaul that I have been working on for myself. I haven't decided yet if I will be polishing it up to release to the public, because that would require a lot of work.

 

1. Identical enchantment effects no longer stack with each other.

2. Enchants on clothing and jewelry are much more powerful than enchantments on armor.

3. Weapon enchantments do not get more powerful. Instead, you can increase the number of charges you get for a weapon through perks.

4. Instead of making enchantments more powerful, the enchanter perk allows you to add additional effects to both armor and weapons.

5. Enchantments on robes increase the effectiveness of a magic school, while enchantments on jewelry or other armor decrease the cost.

 

So far I am enjoying it. It is much more fun to mix and match enchantments. Generally the effect is that you have to choose between making your own enchanted items, which have weaker individual effects but can give you many more effects because you can put 2/3/4 effects on a single item, versus using enchanted items you find which generally have more powerful enchantments but only one effect. The result is that I use a mix of items I have found and items I have enchanted myself, which seems appropriate.

[Drullo321]

While thinking about it, i give you some feedback about your ideas:

 

1) I think that is a not so good idea to solve some stacking balancing issues like zero spell costs or too much plus damage for weapons. My idea to solve that is to limit certain effects to certain slots, e.g. "Fortify OneHand/TwoHand/Bows" to Gloves-Slot. That should be done carefully for all enchantmens. On the other hand you have to edit their power values because e.g. reduce "fortify [weapons]" from four to one slot you have to increase the power to stay noticeable, surely not as four times strong as before but surely at least double the power

 

2) That is a good idea but already included in mods like Complete Crafting Overhaul. There you can adjust the sliders for equipment and weapons as you like

 

3) Either that or let them get more powerful based on the enchanting skill instead of several different magic schools

 

4) Can you give us further details about this idea? While I don't like the idea about no scaling what about a different way to scale. E.g. on enchanting skill 20 without enchanting potions you should enchant items with noticeable strength (when using a grand soul gem) e.g. fortify health 20 points but at level 100 with perks it increased only to 40

 

Another thing is, I don't like to find leveled items like "Daedric Boots of Grand alchemy". The process is always the same. Find one piece of "X", no matter the quality and disenchant it. Boring, and often such weapons are long time more useful then own enchants.

[lofgren]

1) I think this is far too restrictive for me. Enchantments are already limited to 1-4 slots and making them much more restrictive seems unnecessary. Ultimately the final effect of my approach is more desirable in my opinion, because a mage can have Fortify enchantments for all of his mage skills at once and a fighter can do the same with all of his weapon and armor enchants. I think you would have to rebalance the whole magic system if mages could only fortify one school at a time.

 

2) My approach stacks with CCO and more importantly it is balanced as part of a total overhaul rather than a tacked-on afterthought that requires the user to balance it themselves through trial and error.

 

3) Weapon enchantments already get more powerful based on your enchanting skill.

 

4) To be clear, I didn't disable the enchantment scaling that comes from your skill rank, just the additional bonus that comes from perks. So enchantments still get more powerful, just not as dramatically as vanilla.

 

So here is the experience in-game.

 

You're traveling through a dungeon and you find an Ebony Helm of Fortify Marksman. It increases your bow damage by 20%.

 

You can disenchant the armor and make a cloth hood or a circlet from the enchantment that will fortify by about 15%. That will cost you the armor bonus of the helmet but can also include a second or even third enchantment.

 

You can disenchant the helmet and add the enchantment to a new helmet that you have tempered and matches your set. The enchantment will only increase bow damage about 7-10% (which is still quite noticeable), but again you can have a second or third enchantment and probably better armor (depending on what kind of armor you put the enchantment on of course).

 

You can wear the helmet that you found and do maximum damage with bows but forego the advantage of additional magic effects.

 

Each choice has its advantages and disadvantages and each one will appeal to a different style of character, so it seems very effective so far.

 

With 6-7 item slots and up to four effects on each item, the player will eventually be able to use every enchantment in the game, BUT only a few of those will be at full power. Choosing which enchantment to put on jewelry and which to put on other item types, and whether to sacrifice armor for better enchantments, become strategic choices and no two different characters will ever find the exact same equipment to be most desirable.

[hugojmaia]

I couldn't help but notice the frustration part about the grindness of enchanting and smithing.
I've started playing skyrim recently and I've took a completely different approach this time, no extra ridiculous carry weight and no making a ton of stuff weightless. It has worked out well, the aproach to looting is something else and I've managed to get level 100 smithing and enchanting without having to sit at a forge or enchanting table for more than 30 minutes at a time.
I dropped a soul trap enchant of 1 second early on my weapon and bought empty gems from the stores and on dungeons I'd loot gems, daggers and other valuable things.
The daggers are a great way for leveling enchanting, you arrive at dragonsreach after raiding a bandit camp or exploring a cript and then just drop the strongest version you can manage of damage stamina on each dagger. Skyrim's experience is based on how much value you generate with each craft, so a dagger with an expensive enchantment will increase a lot in price regardless if it was done with a petty or grand soul. I didn't bother with trying to add enchantments to my gear early on.
And for smithing make sure you save every iron, silver and gold ore you find out there, the gems found can all be used to make jewely easily once you get a hold of the transmute ore spell. Smith the rest of the metal bars into arrows and the skill is going to be improved steadily.

I realize what you want is to make each item forged and each item enchanted worthwhile. If you're not up to being the AssemblyLineBorn a dozen times during your adventure just increase the xp amount with SkyTweak.
You also told us you want uses for smithing and enchanting outside of the current vanilla options. They're used to get you the gear to be able to do something, but never they're the direct means to do something. That's a fault on the design of the game itself. If you're looking for a mod that gives more use to these skills then you should be taking a look into the dungeons themselves not the perk trees.

Let's start by what uses other than making/upgrading for smithing and enchanting/recharging for enchanting we can get out of them. I'll admit, it's hard to think of something that doesn't fit into those 4 that isn't going to replace lockpicking for some instances. It's mostly puzzles.