The Elder Scrolls: Moon and Star

[jabrackett]

I read the first two pages of responses and got tired of people bringing up legal issues and ruined nostalgia. For god knows why people arent to excited about this. But i am!!! first off the idea of someone even attempting to remake such a massive game is awesome to me. Secondly, i never got to play morrowind when it first came out and the graphics were mind blowing so now after skyrim its hard for me to play a game with such janky graphics even though ive heard how epic the story is. Ive heard how just amazing this game is and i would looooooooooooove to play it with skyrim graphics and would help in any way i could. Good luck to you and your team!!

[BlackCompany]

As exciting a prospect as this is - and it is exciting - it simply cannot happen. Bethesda will put a stop to it. Basically, the statement from Bethesda went something like this:

 

http://www.thenexusforums.com/index.php?/topic/49000-morroblivion-and-mods-that-use-content-from-other-games/

 

This forum discussion goes into some measure of detail. Basically, Bethesda does not allow older games to be remade as mods in new games. Period. There are a variety of reasons for this, from the obvious to the obscure:

 

1. Bethesda might have resources they were permitted to use - middleware, sound effects, etc - in one game but that cannot be legally used in another Beth game. So, requiring people to have Morrowind sound files for a Skyrim mod places Bethesda on shaky legal ground. They aren't going to allow it. Period.

 

2. It cannibalizes purchases of the prior game. Bethesda want people who wish to play Morrowind and Skyrim to purchase both games. This is their right as creators of both games. They do not wish for these people to only buy one game and essentially play the other for free. This means less profit for them. They will stop it.

 

3. It essentially prevents Bethesda from ever doing the same thing, i.e., remaking their older game in a newer engine. Which, if they had any collective brains in their heads, is exactly what they would turn their attention to now. Morrowind with Skyrim graphics, magic and combat? Yes, please. Sign me right the hell up. $60, you say? Ok, sure.

 

 

Bethesda will allow you to make a new version of Morrowind in the current time line and build you own quests there. Something original, as a free mod for SKyrim. But legally recreate the original Morrowind in Skyrim? Sorry, its already been deemed illegal.

[Matth85]

1. Bethesda might have resources they were permitted to use - middleware, sound effects, etc - in one game but that cannot be legally used in another Beth game. So, requiring people to have Morrowind sound files for a Skyrim mod places Bethesda on shaky legal ground. They aren't going to allow it. Period.

 

First off, good post: It got the essence of the problem. However, I want to comment this part.

 

This is not true. If you want to remake a older TES game, you HAVE to use your own models and textures. If you take ONE model from Morrowind, you have broken the EULA and perhaps even the law by copyright.

In theory: If you make the models yourself, it is legal. However, it does not work that way. Bethesda would gladly ban the mod, and there is nothing you can do about it. This is partly because of what you allready said.

 

Besides, I have yet to see a mod team who would be able to do this kind of project for Skyrim. At best I see people who want others to do it.

[Sunnie]

Just going to throw this out there... Copyright law does not stop at who made it.

 

Example:

Suzy painted a picture, it got really popular and everyone wanted one.

Jane decided it was Suzy wasn't making copies of her painting fast enough and decides to paint her own almost identical facsimile of Suzy's painting and published it as her own.

 

In copyright law, the US Courts treat it the same as if Jane would have just did a photocopy and started selling it. It is the same for game assets. If you craft a facsimile of a unique asset, you are still in violation of copyright law. You made your own model with your own hands and know how of that object but it doesn't remove the fact that you copied someone elses work.

 

Another example of this in action is all the copyright suits happening year in and year out in the music industry. Courts all over the world are finding copyright violations when a writer even comes close to a riff or lyric that is in another song.

[Matth85]

Just going to throw this out there... Copyright law does not stop at who made it.

 

It's a confusing matter. If your example was 100% true, 95% of the artist out there would be sued. You do realize the nr.1 way of reference is from google?

 

There is not copyright on ideas. If you make a model and render it, and show us -- I could make my own. If your model was still hot news, I would credit the idea to you, but the work was mine.

 

This differ from country to country, as far as I know. Though I do know this:

- Copyright does not protect ideas. If I draw inspiration from a picture, and make it look 95% the same, it is still the idea I stole - not the work.

- Most beginner artist, and freelacer, use google and deviantart for concept. Industry artist and experienced artist get their own concept art.

- Most of the popular mods over the ages have had ideas taken. The Lich King armor and weapon anybody? Super models, directly taken from a certain game.

 

You could sue somebody for creating an exact model as you did, but they could simply excuse: "What? I just took the idea and made this my own!" or "Huh? I just made something. Who the heck is *original author*?"

 

Besides, that means every time I make a castle wall, or a brick floor, I have broken the copyright from a million others and would get sued for a few billion dollars. Sound nice.

[Sunnie]

Just going to throw this out there... Copyright law does not stop at who made it.

 

It's a confusing matter. If your example was 100% true, 95% of the artist out there would be sued. You do realize the nr.1 way of reference is from google?

 

There is not copyright on ideas. If you make a model and render it, and show us -- I could make my own. If your model was still hot news, I would credit the idea to you, but the work was mine.

 

 

 

You are not considering the fact that once Bethesda copyrights and publishes something, they own the copyright to it and eveything in it. Obviously there will be every day items and objects that are not copyrightable, but anything they created that is unique to their product (unique weapons/armor/characters) found first and officially only in their products, they own the rights to and copying them either directly or recreating a facsimile is still a Copyright violation. If you have a hard time understanding this, I suggest you ask an attorney with Entertainment Copyright Law experience about it.

[Matth85]

If you have a hard time understanding this, I suggest you ask an attorney with Entertainment Copyright Law experience about it.

 

I apologize, when I said "It is a confusing matter", I never meant that I do not understand: But the thing itself is a mess.

There is no single-model that you could get sued for. Modelling the tower in the Imperial City? What, a normal tower?

Modelling Akatosh? What, a dragon? Modelling .. etc.. etc.

 

Again there are country differences here. I am well aware of what I can and can't do in my country. If that crashes with other laws, then it is generally not my problem.

 

My main point: About 85% of TES games are every day items. These have been in games since games first were introduced. That means I could now make 85% of Oblivion, and release it - and force payment for it.

Perhaps what you say are right in theory, but in real it does not hold. We know that if I copy Akatosh and put him in Skyrim, nobody cares. We also know if I copy Morrowind and put it in Skyrim, I get problems.

 

Cheers,

Matth

[Draco856]

How about we just put this debate about copyrights to rest and send messages to ZeniMax and Bethesda and ask them "If I recreate Morrowind using models myself and others have made will you deem it illegal?"

[ubergrover]

Perhaps I missed it, but is this meant to be a recreation of Morrowind as found in "Morrowind" or just the region in the Skyrim timeline.

[Draco856]

Well, going by the topic title, as well as the first post, it's meant to be from the game. Either way, once the copyright issue is resolved it will either die, or be made (hopefully) As I would love to see Morrowind again, but in Skyrims timeline.