LE No leveling from "secondary skills" (like smithing)

[DeadxPixels]

If you restrict leveling from "secondary skill", you're quickly run into three major issues:

• Perk starvation.
  
• What exactly constitutes a "secondary" skill?
  
• Hard level-cap, as you'll max out your "primary" skills.
  

 

 

Double the amount of perk points you get per level (or 3x or 4x, however many it takes to equal out)

A "secondary" skill, in my opinion, is any skill that doesn't directly harm your enemies.

Hard level cap doesn't matter because enemies are scaled to your level. If any enemies are static level, those could be edited accordingly.

 

If not removing leveling from secondary skills, how about adding damage based on level? Would you not agree that a level 30 should deal more damage than a level 1 using Flames or a sword, from simply having more experience?

[Bearget]

If you restrict leveling from "secondary skill", you're quickly run into three major issues:

• Perk starvation.
  
• What exactly constitutes a "secondary" skill?
  
• Hard level-cap, as you'll max out your "primary" skills.
  

 

I completely agree with you. Which is why this:

It'd be better to re-write it, and have separate systems.

 

One for primary skills and one for crafting skills.

 

Don't know that I'd stick only crafting skills in the second group. I agree that Sneak, Speech, Pickpocket, etc. maybe should as well. Have enemy levels based on the first system (maybe with some degree of influence from the other group, to discourage players from maxing smithing/enchanting, then using their epic gear against skeevers), but gain a perk every time you level up in each (so max number of perks is the same).

[Shantih]

I feel they should have either just made it more RPG'ish in the sense that only killing enemies gives experience towards player level, or leveling -combat-(including Destruction/Conjuration spells) skills increases player level.

 

So killing enemies is more "RPGish"' ????!!!!

 

Do we even agree that RPG stands for "role playing game" or does it stand for "mindless hack and slash fest" because that sure is the impression I get reading this post. :facepalm:

[Rebelicious]

I feel they should have either just made it more RPG'ish in the sense that only killing enemies gives experience towards player level, or leveling -combat-(including Destruction/Conjuration spells) skills increases player level.

 

So killing enemies is more "RPGish"' ????!!!!

 

Do we even agree that RPG stands for "role playing game" or does it stand for "mindless hack and slash fest" because that sure is the impression I get reading this post. :facepalm:

This.

 

The thing is that, all things considered, it should not be naturally beneficial to kill everything you meet. Bethesda have been moving away from this increasingly over the years, but as a matter of roleplaying, encouraging leveling based on kills (which is what you do if you make you level solely on combat skills) completely kills the "let's avoid mob X" aspect and constricts roleplaying options even further.

[kitsuneshoujo]

RPG stands for Random Punishment Generator nowadays. Instead of Role Playing Game. Gone are the days of playing games that tell a story for the sake of the story and building your character to suit your mood. Now you build your character and go out and kill people.

 

Thank you consoles, you blight up the world you.

 

I dont think I would want a mod that drops your physical leveling off if you are roleplaying a blacksmith or a cook or and alchemist.

 

As a side note, I think levels should be done away witrh, at least phsyical levels. Its such an archaic method for keeping track of your power level. I like games where you have 100 mana and 100 health and they dont increase. And then you rely on armour and weapons... mobs would be the same way, 100 health and 100 mana... and just give them LOTS of armour points.

[BlueShiftSolo]

RPG stands for Random Punishment Generator nowadays. Instead of Role Playing Game. Gone are the days of playing games that tell a story for the sake of the story and building your character to suit your mood. Now you build your character and go out and kill people.

 

Thank you consoles, you blight up the world you.

 

I dont think I would want a mod that drops your physical leveling off if you are roleplaying a blacksmith or a cook or and alchemist.

 

As a side note, I think levels should be done away with, at least phsyical levels. Its such an archaic method for keeping track of your power level. I like games where you have 100 mana and 100 health and they dont increase. And then you rely on armour and weapons... mobs would be the same way, 100 health and 100 mana... and just give them LOTS of armour points.

 

So in your system, there would only be skill levels, perk points, and shouts? Interesting concept.

 

Here's another: What if the perk point and dragon soul systems were unified? Each dragon soul could allow you to purchase a perk (or two?) and empower a thu'um word.

 

Level scaling should be abolished, with some types of enemies simply being harder than others. When the player has collected a good number of souls, they should go to the harder dungeons or areas to take on the more challenging foes and find better loot. Skills would still level up, but the effects of this would need to be lessened. Skills would be completely independent from "levels".

 

Enchantments on armor and weapons should still provide noticeable differences in stats, so that enchantments can be used to help customize your character's stats.

 

The implementation of this concept: The player levels up [twice] whenever they kill a dragon. Enemy leveled lists are simplified, so that the same enemies are always spawned. Stat gain no longer occurs when the player levels. Armor and weapons are at near-parity, so there's only a small increase in damage or armor rating when new gear is found.

 

Would anyone be willing to make such a mod when the Creation kit comes out?

Edited November 20, 2011 by BlueShiftSolo

[DeadxPixels]

I feel they should have either just made it more RPG'ish in the sense that only killing enemies gives experience towards player level, or leveling -combat-(including Destruction/Conjuration spells) skills increases player level.

 

So killing enemies is more "RPGish"' ????!!!!

 

Do we even agree that RPG stands for "role playing game" or does it stand for "mindless hack and slash fest" because that sure is the impression I get reading this post. :facepalm:

 

I was referring to the usually given idea of RPG's that defeating enemies gives exp for character level. Think of all the RPG games you've ever played with a leveling system and combat, and tell me which let you level up your character without fighting. (Character, not class)

 

I do agree that RPG is role playing game and that that can be almost EVERY game out there. Shooters, action, racing, platforming, even the mmo types, are all RPG's, because you're assuming control of a character.

 

I apologize for not being clear.

 

Level scaling should be abolished, with some types of enemies simply being harder than others.

 

^This. I never really feel like I get any stronger in the game because the enemies get stronger to match :/

I want to feel POWERFUL at level 40 danget!

Edited November 20, 2011 by DeadxPixels

[jjmark]

May be a dead thread, but the original idea is still something that I'd like to see implemented.

[effeob]

May be a dead thread, but the original idea is still something that I'd like to see implemented.

Me too.

 

I really want to see a leveling system that lets you level slower.

Especially now with legendary skills, you end up being able to level up to infinity.

Thats no good.

I prefer having a system where I get more perk points per level - which is now easily implemented with the community level uncapper - and level up slower, eg: it takes more skill gains to level up.

I've just been searching for hours to find a mod that just increases the skill gains required to level up - that would be enough for me.

EG: it requires 20 skill-gains to levelup, rather than 10.

 

But the ideas in this thread are even better.

By chosing primary and secondary skills, ala previous TES games that would make it more meaningful as to what your actual character is.

Yes - you could chose crafting skills and become a crafter.

I'd say being able to chose 7 skills (there are 21 total right?) which is the same 1/3rd ratio of primary/total skills available, which basically creates your "class" or "role".

You only get levels when you get X amount of skill-gains on your primary skills.

You then also get allot more perk points per level to avoid perk starvation, like 3 or 4 perks per level.

 

Result: leveling is slower, its tied to your primary skills requiring you to play your chosen "class" to gain perks/abilities.

This also lets you take good advantage of legendary skill resets in a good way --- not ending up leveling to 150 by the time you want to max out a wide range of skills (primary and non-primary).

 

That would be an awesome mod.

Doesnt seem like it'd be too hard to make either --- wonder if it requires scripting or not. hmmmm, think i'll load up CK and check.

[effeob]

 

Result: leveling is slower, its tied to your primary skills requiring you to play your chosen "class" to gain perks/abilities.

This also lets you take good advantage of legendary skill resets in a good way --- not ending up leveling to 150 by the time you want to max out a wide range of skills (primary and non-primary).

 

That would be an awesome mod.

Doesnt seem like it'd be too hard to make either --- wonder if it requires scripting or not. hmmmm, think i'll load up CK and check.

 

 

 

OK -- NEVERMIND!

I just figured out how to do this.

I misunderstood the leveling system in Skyrim....which is here: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Leveling

 

Was thinking it was a static 10 skill-gains per level-up.

 

Its not!

 

So - with the community level uncapper, its quite easy to accomplish this now.

 

Here is my community uncapper config file which does the following:

* Makes skill-gains slower, roughly 80% on most skills (+/- 10%)

* Crafting skills are at 70% skill-gain

* The CHARACTER EXP you get for skill-gains is reduced to 40% for crafting skills, and 60% for others.

(CHARACTER XP = xp to level-up ---- that means it takes almost 2x more skill-gains on most skills; and more than 2x skill-gains on crafting skills; to level-up.

* Perks per level are:

-- 2->4: 4 perks/lvl

-- 6->9 = 3 perks/lvl

-- 10->+++ = 2 perks/lvl

-- ++ Additionally, levels 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, and 60 = 5 perks at each of those levels

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
; IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW WORKS AND HOW TO MODIFY AN INI FILE PLEASE READ:
; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INI_file
;
; Anything behind a semicolon is considered a comment and has no effect
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

[General]

;DO NOT MODIFY THIS VALUE
;INI file version
iINIFileVersion=3

;Enable(1) or Disable(0) the plugin
;Default value = 0
bEnabled=1

;Enable(1) or Disable(0) the AutoUpdate functionality. IT MIGHT NOT WORK WITH CERTAIN SKYRIM VERSION! ENABLE AT YOUR OWN RISK!
;Default value = 0
bAutoUpdate=0

;Duration of the Uncapper Splash Window using milliseconds. (Set to 0 to disable)
;Between 0 and 10000;
;Default Value = 1000
iSplashWindowDuration=1000

;Enable(1) or Disable(0) the Uncapper Skill Level Caps;
;Default value = 0
bUseSkillCaps=1

;Enable(1) or Disable(0) the Uncapper Skill caps inside formulas governed by skills.
;Default value = 0
bUseSkillFormulaCaps=1

;Enable(1) or Disable(0) the ingame Enchanter Uncapper skill caps
;Default value = 0
bUseEnchanterCaps=1

;Enable(1) or Disable(0) the Uncapper Skill Experience Gained Multipliers;
;Default value = 0
bUseSkillExpGainMults=1

;Enable(1) or Disable(0) the Uncapper Skill Experience to Player's Character Experience Multipliers;
;Default value = 0
bUsePCLevelSkillExpMults=1

;Enable(1) or Disable(0) the number of perks gained, set by the Uncapper, at each level up
;Default value = 0
bUsePerksAtLevelUp=1

;Enable(1) or Disable(0) the number of health points, set by the Uncapper, gained at each level up when Health is selected during the Level Up screen
;Default value = 0
bUseHealthAtLevelUp=1

;Enable(1) or Disable(0) the number of magicka points, set by the Uncapper,  gained at each level up when Magicka is selected during the Level Up screen
;Default value = 0
bUseMagickaAtLevelUp=1

;Enable(1) or Disable(0) the number of stamina points, set by the Uncapper,  gained at each level up when Stamina is selected during the Level Up screen
;Default value = 0
bUseStaminaAtLevelUp=1

;Enable(1) or Disable(0) the number of "Carry Weight" points, set by the Uncapper,  gained at each level up when Health is selected during the Level Up screen
;Default value = 0
bUseCarryWeightAtHealthLevelUp=1

;Enable(1) or Disable(0) the number of "Carry Weight" points, set by the Uncapper,  gained at each level up when Magicka is selected during the Level Up screen
;Default value = 0
bUseCarryWeightAtMagickaLevelUp=1

;Enable(1) or Disable(0) the number of "Carry Weight" points, set by the Uncapper,  gained at each level up when Stamina is selected during the Level Up screen
;Default value = 0
bUseCarryWeightAtStaminaLevelUp=1


[SkillCaps]
; Set the Skill Level Cap to
; Between 0 and 10000;
; Using too low or too high values may crash the game. Handle them with caution.
; Default game value = 100

iAlchemy=150
iAlteration=150
iArchery=150
iBlock=150
iConjuration=150
iDestruction=150
iEnchanting=150
iHeavyArmor=150
iIllusion=150
iLightArmor=150
iLockpicking=150
iOneHanded=150
iPickpocket=150
iRestoration=150
iSmithing=150
iSneak=150
iSpeech=150
iTwoHanded=150


[SkillFormulaCaps]
; Set the Skill Formula Cap to
; If your skill level is higher than the cap set below, then the skill level showing in game will be capped and displayed in red color (like if it was affected by a negative enchantment)
; Between 0 and 10000;
; Using too low or too high values may crash the game. Handle them with caution.
; Default game value = 100

iAlchemy=150
iAlteration=150
iArchery=150
iBlock=150
iConjuration=150
iDestruction=150
iEnchanting=150
iHeavyArmor=150
iIllusion=150
iLightArmor=150
iLockpicking=150
iOneHanded=150
iPickpocket=150
iRestoration=150
iSmithing=150
iSneak=150
iSpeech=150
iTwoHanded=150


[EnchanterCaps]
;However high the Enchanting skill is, the following values set an Enchanting skill level cap when using the ingame Enchanter.
;If bSkillFormulaCaps is enabled, then the following values are also capped by iEnchanting inside [SkillFormulaCaps], if iEnchanting is lower.
; Between 0 and 10000;

;Max Enchanting skill level for enchantment magnitude.
iMaxEnchantingLevelForMagnitude=150

;Max Enchanting skill level for enchantment charges
;A value higher than 199 will cause inconsistencies in vanilla Skyrim.
iMaxEnchantingLevelForCharges=150


[SkillExpGainMults]
; Set the Skill Experience Gained Multiplier to
; betwen 0.0 and 10000.0
; Using too low or too high values may crash the game. Handle them with caution.
; Default game value = 1.0
;(Setting bUsePCLevelNotBaseSkillLevel to 1, will use Character Level instead of Base Skill Level for the subsections)

fAlchemy=0.7
fAlteration=0.8
fArchery=0.8
fBlock=0.9
fConjuration=0.8
fDestruction=0.8
fEnchanting=0.7
fHeavyArmor=0.8
fIllusion=0.8
fLightArmor=0.8
fLockpicking=0.8
fOneHanded=0.7
fPickpocket=0.8
fRestoration=0.8
fSmithing=0.7
fSneak=0.8
fSpeech=0.8
fTwoHanded=0.8

bUsePCLevelNotBaseSkillLevel=1


; All the subsections of SkillExpGainMults below allow to set an additional multiplier depending on the base skill level, independantly for each skill. 
; The format is PlayerLevel = Multiplier. You can specify many different levels. 
; If a specific level is not specified then the closest lower level setting is used.
; Default value: 1=1.0

[SkillExpGainMults\Alchemy]
1=1.0

[SkillExpGainMults\Alteration]
1=1.0

[SkillExpGainMults\Archery]
1=1.0

[SkillExpGainMults\Block]
1=1.0

[SkillExpGainMults\Conjuration]
1=1.0

[SkillExpGainMults\Destruction]
1=1.0

[SkillExpGainMults\Enchanting]
1=1.0

[SkillExpGainMults\HeavyArmor]
1=1.0

[SkillExpGainMults\Illusion]
1=1.0

[SkillExpGainMults\LightArmor]
1=1.0

[SkillExpGainMults\Lockpicking]
1=1.0

[SkillExpGainMults\OneHanded]
1=1.0

[SkillExpGainMults\Pickpocket]
1=1.0

[SkillExpGainMults\Restoration]
1=1.0

[SkillExpGainMults\Smithing]
1=1.0

[SkillExpGainMults\Sneak]
1=1.0

[SkillExpGainMults\Speech]
1=1.0

[SkillExpGainMults\TwoHanded]
1=1.0


[PCLevelSkillExpMults]
; Set the Skill Experience to Player's Character Experience Multipliers to
; betwen 0.0 and 10000.0
; Using too low or too high values may crash the game. Handle them with caution.
; Default game value = 1.0
; (Setting bUsePCLevelNotBaseSkillLevel to 1, will use Character Level instead of Base Skill Level for the subsections)

fAlchemy=0.4
fAlteration=0.6
fArchery=0.6
fBlock=0.6
fConjuration=0.6
fDestruction=0.6
fEnchanting=0.3
fHeavyArmor=0.6
fIllusion=0.6
fLightArmor=0.6
fLockpicking=0.6
fOneHanded=0.6
fPickpocket=0.6
fRestoration=0.6
fSmithing=0.4
fSneak=0.6
fSpeech=0.6
fTwoHanded=0.6

bUsePCLevelNotBaseSkillLevel=0

; All the subsections of PCLevelSkillExpMults below allow to set an additional multipliers depending on the base skill level, independantly for each skill. 
; The format is PlayerLevel = Multiplier. You can specify many different levels. 
; If a specific level is not specified then the closest lower level setting is used.
; Default value: 1=1.0

[PCLevelSkillExpMults\Alchemy]
1=1.0

[PCLevelSkillExpMults\Alteration]
1=1.0

[PCLevelSkillExpMults\Archery]
1=1.0

[PCLevelSkillExpMults\Block]
1=1.0

[PCLevelSkillExpMults\Conjuration]
1=1.0

[PCLevelSkillExpMults\Destruction]
1=1.0

[PCLevelSkillExpMults\Enchanting]
1=1.0

[PCLevelSkillExpMults\HeavyArmor]
1=1.0

[PCLevelSkillExpMults\Illusion]
1=1.0

[PCLevelSkillExpMults\LightArmor]
1=1.0

[PCLevelSkillExpMults\Lockpicking]
1=1.0

[PCLevelSkillExpMults\OneHanded]
1=1.0

[PCLevelSkillExpMults\Pickpocket]
1=1.0

[PCLevelSkillExpMults\Restoration]
1=1.0

[PCLevelSkillExpMults\Smithing]
1=1.0

[PCLevelSkillExpMults\Sneak]
1=1.0

[PCLevelSkillExpMults\Speech]
1=1.0

[PCLevelSkillExpMults\TwoHanded]
1=1.0


[PerksAtLevelUp]
;Set the number of perks gained at each level up. If a specific level is not specified then the closest lower level setting is used.
;Default game value is one perk per level (you can also use float as value, for example 1.25 per points per level)
; Level (2..10000) = Perks (0..255)
;
;In the following inactive commented example the player will gain 1 perk per level at and from level 2 to 9, then 2 perks per level at and from level 10 to 29,
; then 4 perks per level at and from level 30 to 94, then no perk at all per level for level 95 and above
;
;2=1
;10=2
;30=4
;95=0
2=4
5=5
6=3
10=5
11=2
20=5
21=2
30=5
31=2
40=5
41=2
50=5
51=1
60=5
61=1

[HealthAtLevelUp]
;Set the number of health points gained at each level up when Health is selected during the Level Up screen. If a specific level is not specified then the closest lower level setting is used.
;Default game value is 10 points per level
; Level (2..10000) = Points (0..10000)
;
;In the following inactive commented example the player will gain 10 points per level at and from level 2 to 9, then 20 points per level at and from level 10 to 29,
; then 40 points per level at and from level 30 to 94, then no points at all per level for level 95 and above
;
;2=10
;10=20
;30=40
;95=0
2=20
10=15
20=10


[MagickaAtLevelUp]
;Set the number of magicka points gained at each level up when Magicka is selected during the Level Up screen. If a specific level is not specified then the closest lower level setting is used.
;Default game value is 10 points per level
; Level (2..10000) = Points (0..10000)
;
;In the following inactive commented example the player will gain 10 points per level at and from level 2 to 9, then 20 points per level at and from level 10 to 29,
; then 40 points per level at and from level 30 to 94, then no points at all per level for level 95 and above
;
;2=10
;10=20
;30=40
;95=0
2=20
10=15
20=10


[StaminaAtLevelUp]
;Set the number of stamina points gained at each level up when Stamina is selected during the Level Up screen. If a specific level is not specified then the closest lower level setting is used.
;Default game value is 10 points per level
; Level (2..10000) = Points (0..10000)
;
;In the following inactive commented example the player will gain 10 points per level at and from level 2 to 9, then 20 points per level at and from level 10 to 29,
; then 40 points per level at and from level 30 to 94, then no points at all per level for level 95 and above
;
;2=10
;10=20
;30=40
;95=0
2=20
10=15
20=10


[CarryWeightAtHealthLevelUp]
;Set the number of "Carry Weight" points gained at each level up when Health is selected during the Level Up screen. If a specific level is not specified then the closest lower level setting is used.
;Default game value is 0 points per level
; Level (2..10000) = Points (0..10000)
;
;In the following inactive commented example the player will gain 10 points per level at and from level 2 to 9, then 20 points per level at and from level 10 to 29,
; then 40 points per level at and from level 30 to 94, then no points at all per level for level 95 and above
;
;2=10
;10=20
;30=40
;95=0
2=15
10=10


[CarryWeightAtMagickaLevelUp]
;Set the number of "Carry Weight" points gained at each level up when Magicka is selected during the Level Up screen. If a specific level is not specified then the closest lower level setting is used.
;Default game value is 0 points per level
; Level (2..10000) = Points (0..10000)
;
;In the following inactive commented example the player will gain 10 points per level at and from level 2 to 9, then 20 points per level at and from level 10 to 29,
; then 40 points per level at and from level 30 to 94, then no points at all per level for level 95 and above
;
;2=10
;10=20
;30=40
;95=0
2=10
10=5


[CarryWeightAtStaminaLevelUp]
;Set the number of "Carry Weight" points gained at each level up when Stamina is selected during the Level Up screen. If a specific level is not specified then the closest lower level setting is used.
;Default game value is 5 points per level
; Level (2..10000) = Points (0..10000)
;
;In the following inactive commented example the player will gain 10 points per level at and from level 2 to 9, then 20 points per level at and from level 10 to 29,
; then 40 points per level at and from level 30 to 94, then no points at all per level for level 95 and above
;
;2=10
;10=20
;30=40
;95=0
2=30
10=20

I am using SkyRe (Skyrim Redone) mod, which overhauls the entire perks system adding about 3x more perks to the game (maybe even 4x?) so considering I'm gaining perks about half as fast --- I would need to award myself 2x the perks because using this mod --- plus 2x the perks because I'm gaining them half as fast, so that is why I set it this high.

Actually - I might need to set it higher. Realistically would need to have 3-4x perks/lvl with this leveling pace + using SkyRe, but I'll try it out this way first and see if its too "perk starved" to enjoy...

 

At least I will be leveling slower, and each level will actually mean something!!!

 

Working good so far!